Disrespectful Dein Shouts Mouth Off

No one can take away what David Dein did for Arsenal in the 20 years he was at Arsenal.

He brought Wenger to the club, changed the way business worked in football and took Arsenal to a whole new level.

Those are his greatest achievement, he did much, much more for the club. But since his dismissal from the Arsenal board, he is very much a changed man.

Not only has he sold out to the highest bidder in the form of Russian Billionaire Alisher Usmanov, but he has also seen fit to stick his nose in where it really is not wanted.

As I'm sure you're all aware, Arsene Wenger signed a new deal on Friday that will keep him at Arsenal until 2011.

DD in entitled to talk about it with the media, but his comments were disapointing to say the least.

Speaking to Sky Sports.com Dein said: 'When I left his future was very much in the balance.

'He said to me at the time that he wasn't sure if he wanted to stay on.

'We had a chat and I thought it was important that he should stay on for the future of the club.'

Now Dein has done one of two things here. He has either betrayed Wenger's confidence by spilling such a personal discussion out into the media. Or his comments are completely fabricated. Either way, the former vice-chairman is out of order.

I have always had a massive amount of respect for Dein, but these comments coupled with his last comments about Arsenal needing more financial muscle to compete with the likes of Chelsea have done him no favors with many Arsenal fans.

Is Dein still thinking about what's best for Arsenal? Or have his emotions got the better of him? Could he be trying to make a point to the likes of Peter Hill-Wood?

All I can say is that Dein needs to sort himself out. At the moment he is still loved by the majority of Gooners, but that'll soon change if he keeps this up.

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Writer: Nick Simmonett

Date:Saturday September 8 2007

Time: 11:15PM

Your Comments

Wenger should by now be wondering what sort of friend Dein really is. If you take a look at that photo a few weeks back of Dein and Wenger coming out of a restaurant you can clearly see the surprise on Wengers face but Dein was pretty relaxed almost as if he expected the photographer to be there. I wonder who would have benefited most from tipping the press off?

Amos.

"Now Dein has done one of two things here. He has either betrayed Wenger's confidence by spilling such a personal discussion out into the media. Or his comments are completely fabricated. Either way, the former vice-chairman is out of order". Huh?If they cinoketeky fabricated his comments, it's still his fault?

k_chelski

Dein has made his bed, now he has to lie in it, and keep one eye open at the same time. The man did wonders for Arsenal, but has sold his soul now. He will pay the price.

FatOldDave

disgraceful, after all he did for Arsenal, you treat him like that !!short memories or what. What a bunch you lot are. Thank god im an ex gunner, i hate that gooner tag, it shortens to goons, which is quite apt. You know not the meaning of loyalty, or respect, or understanding, He clearly is stuill in love with the club. Truly shameful.

Tonytime

im an ex gunner...You know not the meaning of loyalty... dick!

FatOldDave

I am sure Dien will do anything for the good of the club

afghenry

Whatever Dein did for the club the club did much more for him. Your pious preaching is ridiculous Tonytime. You talk about loyalty but you are an EX gunner!!! I think we can do without that sort of loyalty and understanding is also clearly beyond you.

Amos.

well said tonytime, its about time someone spoke out, on behalf of true fans.

Chris is Here

Amos, its blinkered sheep like you that made me EX. I understand a lot more than you think matey, but this is all for now, everything at the right time. whistle whistle, come round boy, whistle whistle over here boy, thats it into that pen boy. well done, goood doggie amos, heres a biscuit from old farmer.

Tonytime

Now read your post quietly back to yourself Tonytime. Is that the comment of an intelligent person attempting to make a valid point? I don't think you understand much at all 'matey'. If you did you would make a much better job of getting your point across than you do. You sound bittter a stupid. Incapable of cogent argument so you resort to silly childish sheep jibes. Trying growing up and getting beyond the yah-boo level of pathetic point scoring and maybe one day you will make a post worth reading.

Amos.

David Dein has become a C. U. Next. Tuesday. There is no doubt about it.

devvil

if thats the case i hope so cos it will put me one up on you. and your point on the debate in your last post was , not pathetic point scoring by any chance, no no, it dealt with all the pertinent point of the article. lol

Tonytime

Of course it was valid TT. It was pointing out the obvious paradox of you preaching about loyalty while at the same time claiming to be an ex-gunner. It also makes the point that your post tries to insult Arsenal fans by calling us goons and then blaming the fact that you don't support Arsenal any longer on the somewhat curious reasoning that you don't like many of their fans. I would have thought that support for the club would have had something more to do with the club itself. So you see there is much to discuss of some relevance. You don't have to limit yourself to childish insults and pathetically silly and discourteous attacks on others.

Amos.

TT, your mother making you put on a Henry 14 shirt when you were 6, because she thought he looked "tight", does not classify you as an ex-Gunner. You must be a Manc because although the spuds come on our board and try to wind us up at least they try to do it with (semi) legible sentences, Mancs however failed miserably evolving from amoeba. Run along child, playtime bell is ringing!

Mistraal

Heres a paradox Amos - "You don't have to limit yourself to childish insults and pathetically silly and discourteous attacks on others." Amos "Your pious preaching is ridiculous Tonytime. You talk about loyalty but you are an EX gunner!!! I think we can do without that sort of loyalty and understanding is also clearly beyond you. " not discourteous or an attack on another, no no in amos's case its pointing something out, in my case its pathetic and discourteous. lol. Ill give you this though Amos you are a genuine hypocrite, more fake parts than an imitation rolex. lol

Tonytime

thanks misrtraal, more intellligent non insulting remarks. Amoeba they would be the foundation of all life, the most essential of all building blocks. great name by the way, stop eating the beans and you may find the wind decreases, still its better than hatespur.

Tonytime

You find this debating lark quite challenging don't you TT. My response to your initial post insulting and attacking on all gooners because the article represented a view on Dein that you didn't agree with pointed out the obvious paradox. Your post made no attempt to make a reasoned defence of Deins position or examine whether his comments were appropriate or not you just used it is an opportunity to accuse all Arsenal fans of being disloyal, disrespectful and lacking understanding. So you see my pointing out that preaching loyalty while at the same time displaying your own lack of it was factual observation and not merely insulting. You then responded without attempting to defend this inconsistency on your part but simply made a silly 'sheep' analogy.

Amos.

amos, i think you, we have a problem here. if you think "Your pious preaching is ridiculous Tonytime. You talk about loyalty but you are an EX gunner!!! I think we can do without that sort of loyalty and understanding is also clearly beyond you. " is a reasoned response you are in serious need of medication. if you further think that this is not a personal insult then you are in morte trouble than i initially thought. My comments were general , you werre the first person to get personal. You are a hypocrite as anyone can see by these postings. Go try your policy of accusing others of your own shortcomings on someone else.

Tonytime

Go go go tonytime, try one of the other fan sites, they are much less blinkered.

taylorhill teabags

Looks like its a quiet saturday for TonyTime and his alter-ego groupies. Mummy let you stay up late did she?

Mistraal

who cares if Wenger wanted to leave AT THAT TIME when he wants to stay NOW? dein ASKED AW to stay on, so who cares?

korodon

yes quite , windy, quiet night, of course like you have got room to talk. lol

Tonytime

I'm quickly losing respect for Dein. He is trying to take credit for Wenger's decision, and curry favour with the fans by doing so. Interestingly, when Wenger was asked this question, he said that Dein encouraged him to sign, but he stops there. He does not credit Dein as the reason behind his re-signing. I know who I believe in this situation.

prits

Amusing sword play gentleman, time will tell regarding Dein, As for his role in all this it will unfurl slowly over the coming years. An "EX" Gunner too never heard of one myself? Weirdo!!

HerbertChapman

The only problem we have here TT is people like you whose sole intention when they post is to antagonise, insult and irritate others yet you fail to see the hypocrisy in your own position. As I said you do fall short in the understanding stakes. Go back and read your post which triggered this exhange. You have made similar general insults towards this site and Arsenal supporters in the past without attempting to justify them. Then ask yourself whether I was justified in defending a personal attack on all gooners (what a bunch we lot are - eh!) which made an issue of loyalty while clearly announcing your own 'shortcoming'. By any definition it is pious preaching and it was appropriate to point it out. Go on to read your second post and tell me how that attempted to deal with the inconsistency in your loyalty challenge in a reasoned manner.

Amos.

Gunners, anyone who comes on her ranting about about being an ex-gunner is obviously derranged. "Tonytime" FFS!! what man in his right mind would say Hi kids its tonytime!!. Nothing but a showman of the lowest quality thats who. Remember that ***** MC Hammer (Hammertime) Ha ha ha parachute pants and mediocre pop songs. As for that ***** "Chico" don`t get me started on him. If you need attention ex-Gunners jump of a damn roof, you`ll soon dry up and blow away after you`ve been scraped of the pavement. Now a bit more on DD. I`m going to give him time because of the wonderful things he done to our club, our rise from mediocrity, appointment Wenger etc. Ok I don`t like the dodgy Russians and strange looking Americans on the sceen, however Dein, like Wenger, is indeed a visionary a may see things we humble fans cannot. Lets enjoy the rest of the season on the pitch, because off it were looking good too.

HerbertChapman

Well said prits. Anyone who's watched that interview would have seen that AW's trying to find the right word to explain it without badmouthing DD. Class. And on DD, just look at this Usmanov guy's scary background and it's obvious enough if DD has a clear conscience and "best interest of Arsenal at heart".

Louisa

What do you imagine was Deins motivation in making this comment? What purpose does it serve? It seems to give the impression that Wenger was indecisive and that it was only Dein who managed to keep him on board. The intention was probably to undermine the existing boards success in getting Wenger to agree to a new contract and thereby encourage any small shareholders contemplating selling that Dein is strong and the existing board weak. Unfortunately it also gives the impression that Dein thinks he is the puppet master and Wenger his puppet. That may yet backfire.

Amos.

Let him enjoy the "Limelight" it makes a change from Orange! LOL

HerbertChapman

when i hear the story, i reminds me of the classic team spirit. the teams are full of young players, its like in the movie, about team in school, when they heard their coach about to leave because of disappointment , the team works together to show the coach that the team can go far.

mustaz

Amos, yeah it's quite true DD's attempt to claim credit may backfire. It is already, as shown on Arseblog. Interesting read.

Louisa

Dein has lost all of m respect, first of all with his treatment of Wenger, using the guy as a pawn in his transparent little game. Secondly, for poisoning this football club by bringing a morally bankrupt oligarch to our table. The board have put in a tremendous amount of hard work getting the club into the stadium, whilst funding a youth policy that is the envy of world football (which Dein strongly opposed) and now it's about to start reaping financial rewards, mr oligarch wants in. If Dein loves this club so much, where is the £75m he pocketed from selling his shares? Put up or shut up Mr. Dein. Or alternatively, just go away now beofre you destroy everything you helped build.

Little Dutch

I just hope we could really put up a real fight with the other teams, we are the only team out of the top four that is not owned by some billionaire with enough money to fill up the whole Nou Camp (had to use Nou Camp, it's the biggest stadium in Europe)

stukazufuss

Utter ****

Goofle

Well said LD. Was it not you who said about a month ago that Dein would try and take credit for Wenger signing a new deal?

simmy8_2000

Welcome to David Dein's "School of becoming an enormous c***". He buried himself once and for all by siding with the oligarch.

G4L

so where has our certain ex gunners' allegiance gone to,im curious,because i would like to know in his opinion which club and set of fans deserve his support.and Dein thanks for Wenger,now run along theres a good chap,did anyone ever doubt that Wenger would sign his contract?i was never worried,when he says that he will sign it when he gets round to it,that is good enough for me the mans word is his bond.

fran merida

LD ......from where di du get that Dein was against our youth system..c'mon guys....ok he mite not hav done the rite thing by siding with usmanov........but the guy bleeds red and white or else im sure he ould hav taken up ne job in neother club.........i am with Herbie on this i think we should wait and see wat happens bfore we pass judgement.we owe atleast that to him......

karley

I meant that he was against the stadium, he wanted Wembley. Though by telling the world we need to throw money about he seems to lack confidence in the youth system. I simply cannot see one redeeming factor for Dein here, I cannot honestly see one acceptable motive for this hostile takeover, nor do I think it's right that he wants to cash in now with the board having done all the hard work- even foregoing dividends from their shares. Dein has his own interests at heart, this latest pathetic statement exacerbates that. This is about his ego and that will damage this club long term. Bringing someone like Usmanov to the table makes me sick. I would absolutely laugh my arse off if Kroenke sided with the board.

Little Dutch

Excuse me but IMO, he's done and dusted. There is no 'ok he might not have done the right thing by siding with usmanov'. He did the wrong thing, plain and simple. Usmanov reeks of corruption, immorality, dirty money... I do not want to see Arsenal become another money laundering machine, a toy in the hands of a figure that has nothing to do with sport, let alone football. What was Dein thinking I do not know and honestly, I don't want to know. Kroenke was a much better choice, and DD was in a much better position if he sided/sold to him. Now, the board should negotiate some sort of a deal with Kroenke, so that the Usmanov et al. get nowhere near Arsenal F.C.

G4L

Dein gives and Dein takes away.lo. LD, can you feel it? The power of the dark side, slowly corrupting Arsenal, our new padawan Dein is being incredibily sucessful.Soon Arsenal will join the Axis of evil. There's no stoping it, becoming russian, Arsenal is.

k_chelski

lol*

k_chelski

k_chelski, that's exactly what I am afraid of. I don't want my club becoming the horrible, questionable heap of crap that Chelsea is.

Little Dutch

It is becoming already. By the same man who took it to the top.How does it feel to have the same type of owner as abramovich?(only waay poorer). Theres no stopping it, Dein regrets what he did. He wants Arsenal to become Chelsea.

k_chelski

lame one kevin. feelin' lonely there?

G4L

Naah G4L. I just love irony. See, almost everything that you guys accuse chelsea of...kind...of.....comes back to ya.I remember the "you must feel bad not knowing if your manager will still manage you next season" jibe, and the "chelsea have nothing but mercenaries" lol. The "russian billionaire who takes money from the kids in siberia" lol. Or to the " chelsea shows no loyalty to their players" . They all, happened to your club didn't they?So what you think it may be lame, I find it quite amusing. :-)

k_chelski

The difference between Arsenal & Chelsea is that while Chelsea fans would give their right bollock to play FM07 with Roman's ill gotten gains, we however do not want nor need anybody's reeking roubles and we have much better things to be doing with our right bollock.

Mistraal

Right on Mistraal, personally, I won't be a hypocrite for this football club and I have accuseed Chelsea of all of those things and I won't change my mind because it might happen to us. Far from revelling in the irony, it troubles me greatly. It troubles me that people like Usmanov and Abramovic are allowed to succeed, it troubles me that they want to use football to launder their ill gotten gaisn and it troubles me that the regulatory bodies are too ******** lazy and spineless to have stopped it.

Little Dutch

none of you points apply kev, our board re-iterated that Wenger had a future at the club, and Wenger has never publicly questioned his future with Arsenal and had shown faith in us for the past 10 years. Our russian billionaire who takes money from little kids in siberia owns only %14.5 of the club and has little to no influence on any of our operations. And I don't see how you can conclude that Arsenal don't show loyalty to our players when we let Henry move to the choice of his club for 16 million pounds with three years on his contract.

Phantom of the Grove

Mistraal, that's the difference between chelsea fans and arsenal fans. But see, Abramovich wants to invest in youth systems, etc. David Dein wants to ARsenal to become a big spender, like Chelsea. He was the man to bring Arsenal to the spotlight, and he sees that he Arsenal can't compete with other teams, and need to spend big. David Dein thinks you need it, surely he knows more about arsenal than you, Mistraal, right? None of my points apply?Henry left because he said Wenger might leave, and I remember gooners here worried about wenger leaving, so don't even start, it was a problem. Oh, Wenger also said that an experiened world class player would come to your club...where is he? Funny how you didn't question my mercenary point, since henry robbed arsenal's arse, and then left. Arsenal made Gallas captain because they were afraid that he might do an henry (he was about to do that, yes he was, yes he was). Leaving Gilberto S, thinking he was going to be the captain, a loyal arsenal player.And letting him find out about the captaincy thing through the internet(They have invented the phone mr.Wenger). Eerm, the point is that Arsenal is going to be sold really soon, and he has by his side, someone that wants to take control of Arsenal, David Dein, he wants arsenal differently, so he'll use foreign investors to buy the club, and take the club to a different route, something that won't please Wenger, and wenger will quit. Get me drift?

k_chelski

"On 2 September 2007 Craig Murray, the former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, linked Alisher Usmanov to cases of rape and heroin trafficking. The article was subsequently removed by Murray's web host under pressure from Usmanov's legal team, who deny the accusations. LD, this is your owner. Worse than Abramovich, at least he doesn't rape people. Oh Oooh. Stop saying my name, soon the russians will knock on my door. :p

k_chelski

k_chelski, save your effort in saying how bad Usmanov is. That's exactly why we're so opposed to having someone like him for a shareholder of Arsenal.

Louisa

Dein didn't bring us into the spotlight, he bought us the man that did, Arsene Wenger. If Wenger thinks a player is world class he's usually right, unlike Mourinho who doews his scouting through the news of the world. Had you heard of Fabregas, Henry, Vieira, Toure, Petit, Anelka etc, etc, etc before we bought them? No. So I wouldn't be surpised to see Eduardo, Sagna and Eduardo follow exactly the same path, whose to say they won't be world class? They might not be, but given Wenger's track record, I woudln't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. Gallas wasn't made captain to stop him leaving, Wenger has NEVER shown an aversion to letting big players go, it was about the attitude and spirit in the squad, instilling some of our players with the fire that Gallas has. I'm incined to agree about Gilberto, he shouldn't have found out that way, but the captaincy decision as a whole is one I agree with. Abramovic's thirst for youth is basically because Chelsea are miles nehind us in terms of infrastructure and planning, the world is only waking up to the benefits of a top notch, cosmopolitan youth system because of Wenger. The current UEFA rulings on home grown players have left Chelsea and others high and dry, hence the reason you were forced to forfeit Ballack from your squad, because you couldn't fill the quota.

Little Dutch

All agreed, LD. k_chelski, Regarding the youth setup, Arsenal's way in front of Chelsea and many other clubs simply because of AW's planning and long-term vision. To add to LD's point, here's a good article that discusses this issue in detail, which explains why your Ballack and his Germany coach are disappointed about his snub, while AW enjoys the flexibility in choosing/optimising his CL squad: http://gunnerblog.com/?p=752

Louisa

Surely you are looking at Arsenal through the wrong end of a very poor telescope Kev? Usmanov does seem a nasty piece of work and I wish that Dein had picked his partners more carefully but he isn't the owner of the club only a minority shareholder. The club won't be sold any time soon as the existing board control too many shares for anyone else to take control. Abramovich may now want to invest in youth systems having seen the benefits of the youthful Shevchenko and equally youthful Ballack but we have been doing so for a few years now and are continuing to do so. David Dein can want to be a big spender as much as he likes but the board has the money the club has generated itself and the manager doesn't need more than he already has though it's available if and when he does want to spend. Our manager doesn't depend on going cap in hand asking if he can have some more while having to watch on the sidelines as the owner flirts with buying players he doesn't want. As for the barbs about player discontent Gilberto rather than being upset about captaincy issues has expressed a desire to end his career with us. On the other hand Drogba would like to play for a more exciting team. Mercenary Henry - maybe but having taken his most productive years and still made a profit I reckon we did ok. While there are question marks every week about whether Mourinho will go in January on the end of the season our board and manager have declared their love for each other for another 4 years. The parallels you are trying to draw with Chelsea don't really work do they but your attempts to draw them seem to reveal a great deal more about your own discomfort with your own team.

Amos.

Well said Amos. Kev - you're simply trying to give back, what every fan has been giving you chavs for so long. And you're doing it rather badly. Even though Usmanov owns 14% of the club, Arsenal still hasnt taken any of his money. And I hope it stays that way.

prits

LD, fair enough, I only know about Dein on what you guys say, and by what Nick said, he brought you into the spotlight. No doubt about Arsene's abilities. Similar to Claudio Ranieri's. LD, Wenger said that he would bring a world class experienced player, where is he? Gallas made the EXACT same statement as Henry "for now I am an Arsenal player". The same Henry that said "Do I have to buy a t-shirt saying I'm not leaving arsenal?" lol. The ballack thing, well, I think that he was left out not only because of that, maybe as a warning sign that he isn't untouchable anymore, I don't know. We have good youngsters coming up, Sinclair will be a name that you will hear alot in the future. Amos, he is a major shareholder.The club will be sold soon, you can sure of that.Exactly Amos, e x a c t l y, Gilberto is such a professional that even after knowing that he wouldn't be captain by himself, he is still committed to your club, whereas gallas bitched about chelsea just because he didn't play where he wanted to. There are questions every week about mourinho because it sells papers, a story about martin jol doesn't. Sorry Amos, I'm not trying to draw parallel's, I'm saying David Dein wants Arsenal to become a club like chelsea. And that you have a russian owner with questionable money. I'm just spotting the irony, that's it. But don't forget that your board said Henry wasn't going to leave. Remember that? Discomfort? nono, Chelsea was in a bad financial situation, and Abramovich is a fan-owner, he gets angry when we lose, happy when we win, goes to the games, cares about the team. I don't see your rape accused owner going to see your games.

k_chelski

I don't think I am giving it badly, it's just that almost everything that the gooners have spouted about chelsea, came back to their club.

k_chelski

Amos, prits spot on. chav fc are one of a kind when it comes to being owned by a russian oligarch. Usmanov has no say in Arsenal whatsoever, and no one wants him to either. It is the complete opposite at the Bodge. One more point about mercenaries: How many have come and gone during the tenure of Mr. Mourinho? How many have come for the $$$? Chavs would be lucky if every mercenary was as good and stayed as long as Henry. The list of the opposites is very very long.

G4L

We'll see about that G4L.Dein has a plan, if his plan will come true or not, well, it's what we'll have to see.But certainly gooners can't say a thing about abramovich anymore, considering your russian is way way waaaay worse.

k_chelski

Kev, you need a lesson in corporate matters. Owning 14% shares of a club DOES NOT make a person an OWNER of the club, or a major shareholder. Usmanov does not have a say in how this club is run. As to your other points - yawn. Get over Gallas, really. We dont want to hear about how he moaned at Chelsea. His captaincy is turnong out to be good for the team, so I will just say - another Wenger master stroke.

prits

Just because Henry's well paid and left to pursue a new challenge at Barca doesn't make him a "mercenary." He's just a great footballer who also loved and loves Arsenal. He himself said he became a fan when he left. Will your Ballacks or Shevas or Robbens say so, if anyone'd listen/believe? I don't mean to discredit any players or individuals. But the fact has to be pointed out.

Louisa

From hero to zero how the mighty fall!

merlin

Eeer, he owns 14% of shares right? Thus he is an owner, not the sole owner of the club, but he possesses a part of your club.I never said he has any control of everything, just saying he's an owner.That means a part of Arsenal was bought with drug money.Get it? That means you can't say ***** about Abramovich.

k_chelski

k_chelski, yes we can keep saying things about RA, and Usmanov, and anyone we logically think should not be on a club's board.

Louisa

Louisa, not because he was well paid, because well, a year after signing a big contract (and not really earning the money since he was injured most of the season) , after saying he would say several times, and tricking you and your fellow goons, he left.lol. Maybe he didn't leave because of the money, maybe he thought he had more chance of winning trophies there. That still makes him a mercenary.

k_chelski

"Thus he is an owner". Nope, that would make him a shareholder.

prits

So you can accuse chelsea of having an owner that got his money through suspicious ways, having an owner of more than 1/10 of your club accused of rape and drug trafficking?

k_chelski

kev kev, you dont get it, do you? RAs money was directly in the club, funding player purchases, paying wages. As of now, Usmanov's money has only gone into Dein's bank account, and NONE of it has touched Arsenal.

prits

That's the whole point of our being against having this guy for a shareholder right? We don't want our club to be associated with people like him. Both him and your RA are not welcome. Period.

Louisa

True, but I guess Usmanov will be getting money from Arsenal, right? So does that mean you are financing an accused drug dealer?None of his money has touched arsenal...yet.

k_chelski

Its not the same thing (yet), but I am concerned that it could be much worse. There is no doubt that RA looks like an innocent pup compared to Usmanov.

prits

Usmanov will not be getting any money soon from Arsenal(hopefully). This Board has not declared a dividend for a few years. Nice try, kev, but you really are clutching at straws here.

prits

Louisa, you can't compare Abramovich with this guy. He's been accused of RAPE, that's the lowest a human being can get to, even lower than murder. Abramovich has been accused of big money scandals. This guy has been accused with rape and drug trafficking!

k_chelski

Why would Arsenal pay Usmanov for anything? He's not an executive director on a salary (DD was). Even the likes of Danny Fiszman and Lady Nina are not paid directors and they don't even collect dividends as far as we've read. They're wealthy people who're proud to be on the board, associated with the club through family inheritance, etc. If they aren't getting money from Arsenal, just why would Usmanov?!

Louisa

forget calibre i dont think there is a single chavski player who can be mentioned in the same breath as henry

karley

k you're right - Usmanov SOUNDS even worse than RA on paper. But we don't care. RA is far enough from our values and traditions. This Usmanov is worse, even as a human being. And again what's your point? I don't care how much worse Usmanov is, because neither of them is worthy of our club. That's all I'm saying.

Louisa

Oh boy, point is , you can't speak about Abramovich, having satan's child as a shareholder, and potential buyer.

k_chelski

Why not? It's not like this Usmanov guy is my father.

Louisa

Why can't we criticise any individuals with a shady background, regardless of which club they buy/invest in? That's what LD and I have been saying and you have been failing to understand.

Louisa

It's like a tottenham fan making fun of a watford fan because his team doesn't win anything. Same as an Arsenal fan critcising Abramovich. Get it now?

k_chelski

No, because the difference is that we did not invite Usmanov to join and we do not agree to what he did. Irrelevant analogy I'm afraid.

Louisa

But by extension kev, we're criticising Arsenal as well, which we're perfectly within our rights to do. You won't hear me say these words often, but this issue goes beyond football and as a human being I have every right to voice my distaste for Abramovic and Usmanov, and I will continue to do so. Being an Arsenal fan doesn't make those ussies go away.

Little Dutch

It's a bit like saying you can't criticise one of your own players for a bad performance. e.g you have no right to call Boulahrouz ***** because he's an employee of your club.

Little Dutch

Chelsea invited abramovich?Huh??? Abramovich is in the same level as, george bush, your previous kings and queens, Russian presidents, Soviet Union leaders,Pretty boy floyd, etc. He is on that level. Usmonov is far beyond that. That's my point!

k_chelski

No, it's a bit like saying, you can't criticise someone else's player, when you have a far worse in your team. It's like, mancs calling drogba a diver. Of course they "can". But they don't often say that because they have a far far far far worse diver.Get my point?

k_chelski

Exactly my point, LD. I personally support everyone at the club (board members, manager, players alike) until proven guilty. That's the essence of my argument. If someone comes in already with a terribly questionable background, we should speak up and say no. I just don't see what's wrong with us doing that. Maybe we're supporting different clubs than k_chelski for a reason - there's some fundamental differences in our logic.

Louisa

But there again kev, I have every right to call Drogba a diver, because he is. Just like I have every right to call Eboue a diver, because he is.

Little Dutch

I think ManU fans can call Drogba a diver as much as they can criticise Ronaldo for the same thing. Just because they got Ronald on their team doesn't mean that they can't call Drogba a diver when he does dive. When we criticise RA, we criticise Usmanov even more because as a more dishonorable character that's what he deserves. THAT's what we're talking about. OK if you still don't get this one, I'll leave it at that.

Louisa

You have. But you won't often do that. It's like saying : You're fat! But so am I. lol

k_chelski

Yeah LD, I think Eboue's much better and has cut out some of his antics this season, so has Drogba since last season. Let's see if Ronaldo keeps doing that and we can just call him what he really is. See, k? That's what we do - calling a spade a spade. Simple as that.

Louisa

You're really persistent, k! So are we. :)

Louisa

I guess so. I guess so.,,

k_chelski

Deary me Kevin. You welcomed your killer (yes malnutrition can kill) like an old hooker welcomes Wayne Rooney with ur legs akimbo. we at Arsenal are fully against the any proposed takeover by Usmanov and would virtually picket to stop him gaining control of our club and u think thats the same thing? I think you got a touch of the Marco Boogers my friend.

iceman10

Killer, well, the money who took , someone else would've taken if he hadn't. That means, Abramovich existing or not, that money wouldn't go to the starving people of russia.The people your usmanov raped, well, I bet they wouldn't have suffered that same fate if usmanov didn't exist.Abramovich's corruption while in office is no bigger than the corruption that features in the brazilian government, the british government, and pretty much all governments. They all feature some sort of corruption. Yet Abramovich holds all the blame.I think you haven't read what I said correctly, I never said that arsenal fans were in love with him, or wanted him.But apperantly, Dein is.

k_chelski

So what if Dein is? Dein isnt Arsenal. The way you lot have taken to RA is a joke, you dont care about how he gained his money as long as your winning trophies, thats not a view I or many, many Arsenal fans will ever share. As long as we keep our morals as people not fans and dont sell our souls for a few trophies we can hold our heads up high.

iceman10

Chavs have been waiting for something like this just to appease their consciences! All of us Gooners agree, we don't want trophies at any cost, and we don't want a crook in charge of our club. We are NOT CHELSKI!!!! I am proud of how our team of unknowns perform against the likes of the overpaid rouble hungry lower end of London. WE DON'T NEED DIRT MONEY!

darinb007

Well said, iceman. Kev - thats another point. If you go on to vital chavs and have a discussion, you lot defend RA to the hilt, saying there is no proof of wrong doing on his part in the way he made his money, even when the rest of the world knows how he made it. Further, you welcomed RA and his money (dont give me crap about how it would have been someone else, bottom line, it was RA). We, on the other hand, do not believe in closing our eyes to the truth. We see Usmanov is a far worse light than RA, and thats the truth. We see it. We do not want his money. You obviously dont seem to be able to get the difference. You are so delighted with the opportunity to get one back at us, that these basic differences pass right above your head.

prits

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