What The F*** Is Going On?

that doesnt even make sense to me .... doesnt ever ******** team in top flight have young prospects ? isnt training young 'uns good for international football ?

Hello I'm a massive fan of Arsene Wenger. I think he's a great manager and his team which he's built is playing the best football in Europe at the moment But what I don't understand is the double standard shown by some Arsenal fans. They cry foul when the Barcelona sporting director talked about Cesc, yet Arsenal scouts frequently convince the top youth players of other teams to walk away from their club to play for Arsenal. Of course this is not illegal, but I don't think its unethical. Like is Cesc's case, Barca received no transfer payment despite nurturing since the age of 8. Arsenal had exploited the fact the Spanish clubs can't by law offer professional contract to players below 18. So Platini does raise a valid point with his comment. Not I necessary agree, after all in a capitalist globalized economy the one with money has the most power, and not much can be done to reverse this trend. But Platini is a strong advocate of the rights of the less well off, and claims what Arsenal is doing will make poorer clubs less well off. So in my opinion it is rather hypocritical of some Arsenal fans to complain about the unethical actions of others (i.e. Bacra and Henry) whist ignoring the unethical actions of their own club (i.e the Fran Merida compensation saga)

What a joke. Arsene is one of the few managers around who can bring out the best, and we love him for it, and we are damn proud of the fact that our squad is mostly made up of young up and coming talent. What a crock! I suppose Platini wants us to just spend megabucks buying mega-inflated egos, does he. Stick to your guns, Arsene. We don't want to become spurs!

That's what I read somewhere anyway.

I think a player should be allowed to make a choice: do you want to let your talent be developed by the good people at Millwall (no disrespect), or do you want to take a chance with a big team, who can really develop you, at the risk of spending more time on the bench? We couldn't have taken Cesc to London against his wishes, isn't it? He wanted to play for us, so we made the necessary arangements. If every club has only homegrown players we'd be watching league 1 standard football in each division.

the true power is with the clubs at the moment, especially UEFA benefit from it through the champions league. They want to weaken the big clubs, because if the likes of Arsenal, real, AC etc walk out and do their own thing (as with the leagues that are owned by the clubs), Uefa will be screwed. i don't think much will come of this. Who needs Fifa and Uefa anyway?

Afri-gooner, the problem of freedom of movement is that if it is taken to its ultimate level as some in the EC want to, transfers will be banned and players will be able to walk out of the contracts at any stage simply by giving a maximum of 3 months notice, irrespective of the length of a contract. Do you want a world, where Barca could offer Cesc £250,000 a week, and he could immediately walk into Wenger's office and say 'pay me more or here's my resignation, giving the statutory 3 months notice?'. I think this has more to do with Platini and Blatter reinforcing the idea of Football (and other sport) being considered different from other types of work and therefore stopping some of the more lunatic ideas being suggested like banning the transfer system as its modern day slavery.

Other instances that Platini forgets -here: http://tinyurl.com/yusosq

english spur, freedom of movement is not the only law and right in Europe. The last time I checked, contracts had to be enforced anywhere in the world, or you have anarchy. Europe is no different. Imagine if supply agreements, leases, loans etc could all be cancelled at a moments notice for freedom of movements sake! Your economy would resemble that of the Nigeria, minus the oil...

But are you then considering a footballer, not as an employee and human being but as a commodity, something to be bought and sold? Isn't that what slavery was? ... the point is that obviously footballers aren't lumps of meat so cannot be considered commodities in terms of business contracts, nor are they nurses or builders .... so a whole new set of laws are needed. Employment contracts involving people are totally different from business contracts. If a nurse joins a hospital on a 3 year contract, but wants to leave after 6 months, they cannot be physically forced to work for the full length of the contract in Europe. At the moment footballers can .... and the problem is the EC are looking at this anomaly.

What is overlooked is that Cesc decided himself that his future was best developed by moving to Arsenal and under Wenger. He saw that ahead of him at Barca were players like Xavi and Iniesta, and latterly they have bought Deco. So how does it help Cesc playing in Barca reserves? The other key point here is that Arsene Wenger's strategy to compete with the likes of Man Utd and the other big European clubs is to spot talent young, bring it in and develop it. Without this approach, we can't compete financially with the other big clubs. If anything, Wenger's strategy is to be commended - not castigated!

At the end of the day, players enter these contracts willingly and are rewarded handsomely. Some players get greedy and sign for the wrong clubs then that should be something they have to live with. Footballers live one of the most priveledged lives in the world, the do not need the rights to be able to walk away from a contract, football as we know would fall apart completely.

But unfortunately Afri Gooner, once they sign the contract, unlike most other employees they cannot escape from it. The point being made is that the EC are now saying is that just because Cesc has signed an 8 year deal, he should be allowed to change his mind. At the moment he is considered property of the club. If this changes then the entire system will fall down. If a nurse voluntarily takes a job and then changes their mind, she can simply hand in her notice and leave ... at the moment a footballer can not ... and unless FIFA and UEFA are allowed to impose their rules and make sure that sport is considered an exemption we ultimately can wave goodbye to the transfer system, the majority of football clubs that currently exist and look forward to what will be a boring series of friendlies. Even the G14 recognise this.

Speaking of which... http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=464451

english spud, than the clubs can also cancel the agreement when, for example, the player gets injured! Both parties take a chance when committing themselves. the clubs hope that the player develops, shows good form and works for the team, and the player hopes that he can attain his goals and gets paid. If only one party to an agreement is expected to honour the agreement, the other party will not be prepared to enter into agreements. That does not suit players at all. Basically we have a good balance at the moment, and the market is relatively free. Who benefits from messing around with it? Is S ****horpe going to win the league if we implement Platini's idea?

i dont understand you the hell he ahs had a go at wenger for this. how the hell are young players ment to get in the big teams if they stay with the likes of millwall, and another thing if he has a problem with wenger about it then he also has to point out managers like rafa, fergie ect..... what a fecking muppet

Platini's idea will change nothing and certainly is not for the good of football. If you ban the transfer of players between the ages of 14 and 16 then it will do nothing for the smaller clubs who might be able to get a fee for players like Pennant to invest in their first team if and when it suits them. The higher the standard of education you receive then generally the better the player you become. Arsenal and other premiership clubs have contributed players at all levels of the football league not just the premiership. Take a look at the FA Youth Cup final teams over the last few years and you will find plenty now plying their trade, and contributing to the quality of football, in the lower leagues.

Oh and don't worry about the Spud comment, it's a term of endearment for all Spurs fans, just as "Goons" is for us! ;)

Barca as far as I'm aware are a European club so why is it Arsenal gets singled out? I also disagree with the notion that our policy is detrimental to small clubs, ask the clubs that benefit from our loan system how they feel about it...12m for Theo suggests smaller clubs do very well out of us. At the end of the day its the players choice where they go to develop and further their career, given Wenger is the best in the world at doing so, its hardly suprising that so many want to come to Arsenal... In a utopian world all teams would have an equal opportunity to compete, (nevermind the eradication of poverty, universal human rights and education etc) but like any industry there will always be those who rise to the top... if you took Platinis absurd ideas to its logical conclusion, each club would only have local players, with an equal number of good and bad players, equal resources, and are run in the exact same way... In the end where is the line drawn? at what age is it ok for a player to leave? Is he suggesting that its ok for a big club to sell their star players, but not a small club? How will big and small be defined? I get the feeling this has more to do with some of the other European powers getting the hump cos Arsenal are often getting the pick of the best youngsters in the world and they are missing out...

And however you want to describe Barcelona, we're not exactly making a poorer club worse off. As for Fran Merida Perez, that saga showed that Barca are the ones without ethics. They pursued compensation running into millions from a teenager out of petty spite because they lost another prospect and lost some face. That's right, they brought action against the boy himself, not the club he went to. It's not easy to raise £2m when your last job was a paper round. We paid it for him , as we're the ones with the ethics. The blame should be with 1. Spanish Law, which fails to protect clubs and 2. The clubs themselves for not giving their youngsters a chance. Watch us tonight against Sheffield in the Carling Cup to see what our attitude is. Our criticisms of Barca and Real are valid because most clubs have rules when it comes to tapping up players under contract. We don't use the local rag to make an approach to players (perhaps because the Highbury and Islington Gazette doesn't get noticed that much...)

Lol @ Finsbury Parker. Good point well made. Welcome to the site!!

Totally agree topspur, its very important that the smaller clubs are well compensated when their talent moves on. And to 'englishspur' (nice new handle btw - how many is it now?) why is it on this thread, and the one on the spuds site, you seem to see points in my comments that are not there? Where did i suggest that young players should stay and develop in their respective countries? I used the Barca players to point out that whilst other clubs do it, we get singled out, and it gets called 'the Wenger way' Even your miserable lot are doing it... I believe Wenger's philosophy is spot on, the players will get the best development under the direct supervision of Le Prof.

do you know what this whole debate really makes me crave? Some really good football, who cares where the players are from, who cares what's happening in the corridors of power, I can't wait to see them light up the pitch! stupid politicians...

Finsbury Parker ... why are Barcelona without ethics? They lose a player they have developed from the age of 8. He left the club and was hidden by his agent Joseba Diaz, who offered him to Real Madrid, Manchester United and Arsenal. Merida's parents encouraged his agent to do this as they were concerned at the number of young players joining Barcelona. They did this in the knowledge that Barcelona would get no compensation, despite having invested over 7 years in him. Under Spanish Law, Barcelona would have broken the law if they had offered him a contract before he turned 18, but Arsenal could do so at 16. Having benefited from seven years of support from Barcelona, the Spanish courts decided that he had in fact signed a personal pre-contract and Barcelona deserved to have some money back on their investment. How would you feel if Arsenal spent 8 years investing in and developing a player to lose him for nothing because of the behaviour of some dodgy agent, and knowing that the law prevented you doing otherwise? Barcelona clearly realised that Arsenal would pay on behalf on Merida and it is this sort of really ugly and dirty practice by Merida's agent that Platini is trying to stamp out. Offering around a 15 year old boy to the highest bidder is a very ugly way to do business in anyone's language so maybe you are questioning the wrong party's ethics?

KaoTeK, we should be so lucky buying up all these youngster. Seriously! I do think we should be giving a little more of the tv revenue to lower league clubs, perhaps their could be a stipulation that this additional money is spent on their youth academy. This way it would force them to set up a better youth team, and employ better youth team coaches. This way every one benefits as a lot of these player would end up at PL clubs, lets not forget that the tv money mostly comes from sky subscription. Which are paid by fans of big and small clubs

Maybe UEFA should be the one stepping in at this point, they could maybe put a formula in place for paying compensation. Although it's hard to work out how you would compensate a club for the loss of Fabregas

Kaotek, be my guest. My details are a matter of record. Would you like me to provide you with the link on how to do so? I think you have the register as a Spurs fan, go on to our forum, and there is a list of all the VitalSpurs members. The fact is I haven't made any anti-Arsenal comments, I am providing information and concerns for all fans of football that may be not available to those especially fans based outside of Europe and who aren't aware of the current machinations of the European Commission and the steps that FIFA/UEFA are trying to take. I assume that anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'outed' on this site by you, hence your feeble and lame threat. What do I care? If you lack the intelligence to suggest you know for a fact that the EU are not planning this, be my guest and provide the evidence. PS. Hope that cold gets better

afri-gooner why pick nigeria for negative comment..(if 9ja no good 4 u no mean say 9ja bad o)

lol @ topspur fair point mate but you know what i mean... I think your idea about more money being plowed into the academies of lower leagues is a very good one providing, ofcourse that the academies have a required level me standard, and this my friends, is the problem in the major problem in england...the standards at grass roots level is appalling, solving this problem benefits everyone at every level... to englishspur; whilst Arsenal will give a player a chance in the first team no matter what their age is if they have the required ability, your own team have numerous youth players who, much to the irritation me many spuds, moves get a look in... given your opinion that such players would be better served playing competitive matches in lower leagues, I take it you have a pretty dim they of your clubs youth policy?

KaoTek, your youngsters only really get a look in during the CC as Wenger does not consider it a priority. You loan some players out to get some experience, but wouldn't it better for you to have some feeder clubs in the UK, where you could help your youngsters get used to living in England, share your coaching experience, and if you have a deal with Carlisle have an opportunity to scout for youngsters in that areas as well as within your own 90minutes zone. Without this arrangement, players are loaned out and there is no control over the coaching they get. And where clubs are struggling to stay afloat but are a vital part of the local community, this will be the only way they can improve their standards.

Still waiting for you to reveal my identity KaoTeK

G14!!! Thats the way forward!! Celtic are now in it! Bout time!

LOL comprising? I meant conspiring... rk everyone sees g14 as the bad guys but we need them to provide some kind of balance of power...

Yes, thanks for saving me some time ... I note you couldn't produce any sort of comeback to what GIK told you about the truth regarding investment. If you're boarding were genuine supporters they'd make sure they had 50% or more of the shares not trying to put this farcical and legally non binding no sale agreement in place. You might be interested to know that Usmanov came sniffing around us and was told unceremoniously to **** right off. Its a pity some of your shareholders don't have similar ethics but as Levy and Joe Lewis's sons have proven they were supporters before they made any sort of investment, its kind of cut you off at the knees. As it is, we are in discussion with a USA businessman, who has been the most successful team owner there of the 21st century AND has a reputation for privately funding new stadiums for his teams using his own money. Feel free to squirm your way out of backing up your accusations with something that you appear to have only a passing acquaintance with ... FACTS.

Bentley played 1 game for Arsenal http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football-heroes/displayhero_club.asp?HeroID=8898 I count 'many' as significantly more than 1 appearance. Refusing to release players who give 3 months notice and demanding a fee for them at any time while they are playing under a contract, whether it is 12months or 8 years is also a restraint of trade. You cann't choose the laws you wish to impose.

*Goods= Gooner

If you include League Cup, FA Cup, Charity Shield and European appearances its many. Norwich then had the benefit of his considerable 'talents' for a season or two. Anyway my point was he was a seasoned and experienced player with international experience when he was reluctantly sold at a bargain price to Blackburn. Bentley promised a lot. But he had attitude – including criticizing Wenger for not playing him more. In the end he engineered his own move away from the club and apart from the fans I can't remember anyone making a fuss about it. So as for 'refusing to release players' Arsenal don't have this sort of policy,...which is more than can be said for a certain club who let Sergei Rebrov rot his career away in the reserves. Perhaps you should read what Bentley himself said about his move before going any further: http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article2278057.ece

Please explain how Comolli and Ramos were lying? You are making a serious accusation KaoTek and talking out of your backside. As I said you are being abusive about our board, but not one of them, sold at a huge profit to a person like Usmanov. Despite you waxing lyrical about your shareholders, Fitzmann has been reducing the size of his stake ... Hill Wood sold his shares to Dein ... whilst they probably didn't expect an Usmanov, they were content to take the cash. Yes, you are using very polite language, but the content of what you are saying about our club, how it operates, is totally against the actual facts and is abusive. Abuse is not necessarily the language you use, but the smear you attempt to make. GIK, simply put you straight and and one who reads the article will see exactly that.

KaoTek, I think such expressions as calling WHL as *****e heart lane, saying the media is attracted to *****e etc, are pretty abusive. What I don't understand is why you are on a specific club related article? I have written on your page, 3 times, each of them on articles that affect all of football and have tried to avoid anti Arsenal comments. Regarding referees, Amos has already said about the lack of referees. With all the abuse they get, and they are only human, is it no wonder that there are fewer and fewer referees coming through? Without a referee there is no game. Referees make mistakes. Death threats because of this are a joke. Club officials who make any criticism against officials in public should receive what happens in Rugby, touchline bans which last for several months, even when they have a case. Undermining officials, even if they are justified, undermines the game. This is understood in all sport but football is incredibly lax about it. The pathetic drivel against Blatter and Platini also merits comment. Neither are on the payroll of Arsenal. Both have given their life to football. Each have a responsibility for all clubs in all the countries they represent. FIFA has 208 national associations and despite being responsible for internationals have also led the move to get domestic competition and training properly established in such areas as Asia. They idea that either is anti-club football is horse-*****e. Why kill the golden goose? Successful club football in both domestic and european competition pours huge amounts into their coffers. It also raises the profile of football allowing international level competition to get bigger sponsorship. Platini and Blatter have the responsibility to protect the interests of all of their members worldwide. One way to do so is to reduce the movement of players, often without compensation, to a handful of the bigger teams. They have also have the responsibility to defend football against external threats, often seeing a much bigger picture and being aware of legal moves by such organisations as the EU which could wipe millions off the balance sheets of clubs and bankrupt a large number where the squad is counted amongst assets. How would Arsenal feel that if in one swoop, £150m is wiped off your assets? People say it won't happen, but 12years ago they laughed at an unknown Belgian called JeanMarc Bosman. People who slag of referees and officials like Platini and Blatter with such abuse as cowards, liars and idiots, know and care absolutely nothing about football.

Amos, what I am saying is I fail to understand the need for personal abuse? Why is Howard Webb a coward? Why is Blatter an idiot? They have different opinions and interpretations. Webb is a highly regarded referee who acted on the advice of his linesman. End of. Watching the game with non-Spurs friends, we all felt, that steaming in, as some players did was bound to end in negative decisions. The point is Webb made a decision based on the information he actually had there and then. Describing him as coward simply leads to others thinking that abusing refs at all levels of the game is ok. I don't claim that what Platini or Blatter say is gospel. However they do make statements, undoubtedly considering the bigger picture. Remember the reaction of fans and managers are simply them defending their own incredibly small piece of turf, whilst FIFA/UEFA have to look after the interests of all whether big or small. And yes, there have been allegations made against Blatter as there is in a lot of organisations where positions are up for election. It should be noted that those making the allegations had their own agenda, and were often not as pure as the driven snow themselves. It should also be noted that those allegations have been investigated fully by the Swiss authorities. The Zurich prosecutors FULLY investigated the claims and found absolutely no evidence at all. The problem is that someone can be accused, investigated, cleared and the original mud slung sticks.

Describing the actions of a referee as cowardly or idiotic or foolish is a criticism of the actions more than personal abuse but in any event this is an internet comments section not the Oxford Debating Society. What compels you to feel you need to be self appointed arbiter of the language used? If someone wants to express an opnion forcibly then why not do so provided they are prepared to back up their judgement with reasoned argument? As for Blatter being cleared by Zurich prosecutors that is bunkum I am afraid. There hasn't been a prosecution because Blatter controls the means of investigation - FIFA is a closed shop in this regard. There was a limited look into allegations of vote rigging after his re-election which was 'not proven' but not FULLY cleared either. There was a Panorama program only a couple of weeks ago which raised fresh allegations of corruption. Before deciding whether we should bend our knees at the alter of Blatter and his cronies take a look at the work of Andrew Jennings at http://www.transparencyinsport.org/ and perhaps read a book called 'How they stole the game' by David Yallop. If you have an open mind you might then reconsider whether you are the only one who 'knows or cares about football' and maybe decide that you are shooting at the wrong targets.

Amos, as FIFA is registered in Switzerland, Swiss prosceuters must see all documents in an investigation or they can prosecute people for withholding evidence. How can FIFA have controlled an external investigation? It was investigated by the Swiss police and their prosecution service. The internal investigation was stopped because there was no point in continuing an investigation when the police said they could find no evidence. Does it surprise you that the person backing the investigation was Blatter's challenger Johanssen? The authors of those books have offered their own opinions - not facts. Michael Zen-Ruffinen actually went to the police. The practices described in the books, will be found in many organisations. Most of the scandal revolves around the marketing company ISL, not Blatter. No mention is made of the millions ploughed into developing football in the third world. Regarding Refs I just think the language used is pathetic. All those abusing referees are the ones complaining there are not enough of them. Well who'd want to be a referee if they do a 'google' search of their name and find all this c**p being said about them?

I think Comolli is a clown but lying is saying something you deliberately know is not true. You still haven't said what the actual lies are? The true custodians who until Usmanov turned up offloaded shares. ENIC have actually been increasingly their stake in the club. Can I ask the last time you went to White Hart Lane?

From the Swiss News Agency, "Blatter’s opponents, who included European football chief Lennart Johansson and former Fifa general-secretary Michael Zen Ruffinen, subsequently withdrew their accusations against Blatter, but the Zurich prosecutors’ office insisted that the accusations would still need looking into. Having now investigated and dismissed the claims, the office noted on Wednesday that Blatter’s opponents could yet appeal against the decision to drop the charges. Blatter himself, though, seemed in little doubt as to his victory. “I have chosen to refuse any legal redress or compensation due to me,” the Fifa president concluded. .... Zen-Ruffisen and Johanssen withdrew their accusations. Some books containing similar allegations have been blocked by the Swiss courts namely Goldblatts, but freedom of information means they cannot be bloecked everywhere. I note all your sources only appear from the 'transparency in football' site. Mastercards response is hardly surprising. FIFA decided not to renew their deal and went to VISA instead. According to the lawyers Denton Wilde Sapte, it revolved around the belief that Mastercard has the right to first refusal ... its a squabble about suppliers ... here is the opinion offered http://www.dentonwildesapte.com/assets/1/18922.pdf “I would rather follow the proposal of the prosecutors’ office that Fifa covers the cost of this frivolous process by making a donation to a charitable organisation in the canton of Zurich.”

You are talking about a different matter, amongst many, which was never prosecuted, due to FIFA's closed shop policy, though a Swiss lawyer, Hildebrand, is still investigating some of the issues. The ISL affair hasn't yet been heard and though this case is directed against ISL it directly implicates FIFA and its officials in kickbacks. If the case is proven against ISL then FIFA are unlikely to come out of it with their hands clean. As for the books the fact that FIFA may have had them banned in some corner of the world doesn't prevent them suing the authors for defamation, slander or libel. Why do you imagine they haven't done so? There are plenty of sources across the internet and the wider media highly critical of FIFA and its practices. I could list many more but I suspect your views are too deeply entrenched to benefit. I also think you are dismissing the Mastercard/Visa affair too lightly. FIFA's actions were described in excoriating terms by the presiding Judge in New York and led to the dismissal of 4 FIFA officials -but only after the judgement went against them. Mere supplier squabbles don't usually have those consequences and wouldn't, as was estimated earlier this year, have cost FIFA about €75m.

He's just an attention seeking old bugger!!