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What The F*** Is Going On?

Rising in the early hours of the morning for my son's first feed of the day, I cast a quick eye to NewsNow to see if there is anything pre-Sheffield United to quench my footballing thirst.

There was one particular article that caught my eye, and the content left me flabbergasted. I've been sat trying to think of a way to take the quotes and make an article with a decent title, but I'm afraid I'm just too astonished to think.

After Sepp Blaters amazing disrespect to Arsene Wenger, Michel Platini has swung a blow in Le Prof's direction regarding his transfer policy.

Here's what he said .....'I do not like the system of Wenger. In France, Italy and Spain it is easy to buy with money the best players at 14, 15 or 16. I don't like that.'

'If my son is playing at Millwall and at 16 Manchester United come in for this player then when will Millwall have a good team?'

I dunno what else to write! I believe the world has gone well and truly mad.




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The Journalist

Writer: Rocky7 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday October 31 2007

Time: 4:01AM

Your Comments

that doesnt even make sense to me .... doesnt ever ******** team in top flight have young prospects ? isnt training young 'uns good for international football ?
yazz
Arsenal cannot be criticized for their playing standards so the children, platini and bladder, have to bring out some totally innocuous comment, just to have a dig.
bseymour
Hello I'm a massive fan of Arsene Wenger. I think he's a great manager and his team which he's built is playing the best football in Europe at the moment But what I don't understand is the double standard shown by some Arsenal fans. They cry foul when the Barcelona sporting director talked about Cesc, yet Arsenal scouts frequently convince the top youth players of other teams to walk away from their club to play for Arsenal. Of course this is not illegal, but I don't think its unethical. Like is Cesc's case, Barca received no transfer payment despite nurturing since the age of 8. Arsenal had exploited the fact the Spanish clubs can't by law offer professional contract to players below 18. So Platini does raise a valid point with his comment. Not I necessary agree, after all in a capitalist globalized economy the one with money has the most power, and not much can be done to reverse this trend. But Platini is a strong advocate of the rights of the less well off, and claims what Arsenal is doing will make poorer clubs less well off. So in my opinion it is rather hypocritical of some Arsenal fans to complain about the unethical actions of others (i.e. Bacra and Henry) whist ignoring the unethical actions of their own club (i.e the Fran Merida compensation saga)
zoolander88
We should never have become involved with UEFA, FIFA. More of the same to come when Gordon Brown concedes powers to Europe! Great Britain?
merlin
What a joke. Arsene is one of the few managers around who can bring out the best, and we love him for it, and we are damn proud of the fact that our squad is mostly made up of young up and coming talent. What a crock! I suppose Platini wants us to just spend megabucks buying mega-inflated egos, does he. Stick to your guns, Arsene. We don't want to become spurs!
darinb007
That's what I read somewhere anyway.
entropy13
There is something unethical with the Fran Merida saga. He, Fran Merida, the player himself, was forced to pay the compensation (around 2m) instead of the club, Arsenal, because that was what Barca wanted.
entropy13
Unfortunately that was the only way Barcelona could get compensation. The problem is the EC are looking at ways of making transfers illegal - we already see this in players being able to buy out their contracts with 12months remaining. The next Bosman is looking at players being able to walk away from the contracts at any stage, by giving a maximum of 3 months notice like any plumber or nurse etc can. What is worrying is that football (and other sport) needs to get a complete exemption from EU law so the transfer system etc can remain in place, but unless there is a unofficial agreement from clubs and associations to present a united front this will not occur. What Platini is decrying is that smaller teams cannot often keep the young players they discover and these young players then get buried in academies and reserve teams meaning few get to watch them. The smaller teams rarely get adequate compensation either.
EnglishSpur
I think a player should be allowed to make a choice: do you want to let your talent be developed by the good people at Millwall (no disrespect), or do you want to take a chance with a big team, who can really develop you, at the risk of spending more time on the bench? We couldn't have taken Cesc to London against his wishes, isn't it? He wanted to play for us, so we made the necessary arangements. If every club has only homegrown players we'd be watching league 1 standard football in each division.
afri-gooner
Who the hell can take that muppet seriously anyway? I would say this is just another of his tos spot ideas...remember that he is the one that suggested three yellow cards, two referees and a micro-chipped football......I think he says stuff like this to get some attention, poor old sod..
Blue is the colour
the true power is with the clubs at the moment, especially UEFA benefit from it through the champions league. They want to weaken the big clubs, because if the likes of Arsenal, real, AC etc walk out and do their own thing (as with the leagues that are owned by the clubs), Uefa will be screwed. i don't think much will come of this. Who needs Fifa and Uefa anyway?
afri-gooner
This does have more to do with clipping the wings of the bigger clubs and increasing the power of local football associations. Most kids that show any real talent are picked up at an early age by the bigger clubs anyway. Cesc, Merida & Anelka were all associated with major clubs not a Millwall or its European equivalents. If any kid wants to pursue his education somewhere else he should be as free to change schools as in any other educational sphere. Why should they be denied the best education possible just because someone feels their palms should be greased first? In a contractual situation any compensation is a matter between the clubs on the basis of FIFA rules and local employment laws. The example of Cesc used above is incorrect. Arsenal reportedly paid 1mn Euros and cancelled 1.7mn Euros remaining from the Overmars/Petit transfer. This whole issue is more about making money for the big clubs than survival of smaller clubs. These smaller clubs will always sell anyone at any age if the deal is right as Notts County did for around £2mn with a 15 year old Pennant.
Amos.
Afri-gooner, the problem of freedom of movement is that if it is taken to its ultimate level as some in the EC want to, transfers will be banned and players will be able to walk out of the contracts at any stage simply by giving a maximum of 3 months notice, irrespective of the length of a contract. Do you want a world, where Barca could offer Cesc £250,000 a week, and he could immediately walk into Wenger's office and say 'pay me more or here's my resignation, giving the statutory 3 months notice?'. I think this has more to do with Platini and Blatter reinforcing the idea of Football (and other sport) being considered different from other types of work and therefore stopping some of the more lunatic ideas being suggested like banning the transfer system as its modern day slavery.
EnglishSpur
*Yawn* Same $h!t different day... dont see them moaning about barca bringing the likes of dos santos and messi in from other countries at such a young age, surely being detrimental to the local clubs that miss out? Afri, totally agree with you, the irony being that its exactly this sort meddling that will see the top clubs break away...
KaoTeK
Other instances that Platini forgets -here: http://tinyurl.com/yusosq
Jammathon
KaoTek, I think Platini as president of UEFA would only comment on the 53 associations that fall under his remit. But I do agree with you, and think this should be extended outside of Europe. I would like to see clubs being allowed to develop an international network of links with clubs and sharing their coaching expertise and knowledge whilst allowing players to continue to develop in Asia, Africa and America. The standards would improve and local fans would benefit from watching their best young players for longer. If they get brought to Spurs, Arsenal, ManU at 15 or 16, no-one gets to see them anyway.
EnglishSpur
english spur, freedom of movement is not the only law and right in Europe. The last time I checked, contracts had to be enforced anywhere in the world, or you have anarchy. Europe is no different. Imagine if supply agreements, leases, loans etc could all be cancelled at a moments notice for freedom of movements sake! Your economy would resemble that of the Nigeria, minus the oil...
afri-gooner
Anyone who apeaks out on this subject (whatever be the merits of the case) seems to drag Wenger's name into it somehow, and thats unfair. The Milwall ManU example is blindingly obvious - why would a youngster turn down a chance to train in top class facilities with top class coaches, only because he is disadvantaged by his associated with a smaller club with lesser facilities?
prits
But are you then considering a footballer, not as an employee and human being but as a commodity, something to be bought and sold? Isn't that what slavery was? ... the point is that obviously footballers aren't lumps of meat so cannot be considered commodities in terms of business contracts, nor are they nurses or builders .... so a whole new set of laws are needed. Employment contracts involving people are totally different from business contracts. If a nurse joins a hospital on a 3 year contract, but wants to leave after 6 months, they cannot be physically forced to work for the full length of the contract in Europe. At the moment footballers can .... and the problem is the EC are looking at this anomaly.
EnglishSpur
I don't tend to agree with either of those dim wits, but I do think we need to be a little careful how we treat the so called smaller clubs. IMO it will greatly harm football in general if the smaller clubs are raped without adequate compensation, we need these clubs to unearth talent that eventually move on to bigger clubs. Also where would football be if supporters of these clubs cannot dream of eating at the top table, our short term selfishness could prove to be our long term undoing?
Topspur1
What is overlooked is that Cesc decided himself that his future was best developed by moving to Arsenal and under Wenger. He saw that ahead of him at Barca were players like Xavi and Iniesta, and latterly they have bought Deco. So how does it help Cesc playing in Barca reserves? The other key point here is that Arsene Wenger's strategy to compete with the likes of Man Utd and the other big European clubs is to spot talent young, bring it in and develop it. Without this approach, we can't compete financially with the other big clubs. If anything, Wenger's strategy is to be commended - not castigated!
Gooner_Vin
i never heard of a slave who voluntarily entered into an agreement with the slaveowner. Players chose to go to clubs, and they get fat wages in return. It's a win-win situation. You can't tell any other top business that it's unfair that they attract the best staff, and smaller firms don't get a chance, so only people living in their immediate area may work for them! Arsenal have built a top reputation over many years, it's not unfair that they reap the benefits.
afri-gooner
At the end of the day, players enter these contracts willingly and are rewarded handsomely. Some players get greedy and sign for the wrong clubs then that should be something they have to live with. Footballers live one of the most priveledged lives in the world, the do not need the rights to be able to walk away from a contract, football as we know would fall apart completely.
Rocky7
Top level footballers aren't simple employees - they are mini-businesses - brands in themselves. Their profession isn't confined to on field activities as they sell image rights, sponsorhsips, media and other revenue generating services related to the strength of their individual brand. As such they enter into a commercial contract with their 'partners' their football club who share the benefits of their image (brand) rights in the sale of merchandise such as shirts for example. It is a contractual relationship in much the same way as any other genuinely commercial transaction. Frankly, at this level, it is silly to equate them with nurses and to invoke images of slavery.
Amos.
But unfortunately Afri Gooner, once they sign the contract, unlike most other employees they cannot escape from it. The point being made is that the EC are now saying is that just because Cesc has signed an 8 year deal, he should be allowed to change his mind. At the moment he is considered property of the club. If this changes then the entire system will fall down. If a nurse voluntarily takes a job and then changes their mind, she can simply hand in her notice and leave ... at the moment a footballer can not ... and unless FIFA and UEFA are allowed to impose their rules and make sure that sport is considered an exemption we ultimately can wave goodbye to the transfer system, the majority of football clubs that currently exist and look forward to what will be a boring series of friendlies. Even the G14 recognise this.
EnglishSpur
Arsenal regularly let talented players they have nurtured move to smaller clubs for little or no fee. The list is endless (Bentley, Mwamba, Larrsson,Stokes etc,etc). So I really don't understand what Platini is moaning about. We invested huge amounts in these players which others are benefiting from. And good luck to them all. The thing that big nose should be dealing with is the illegal tapping up of players and managers under contract.
Wyn Mills
Speaking of which... http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=464451
Wyn Mills
Bentley was £4m, Larsson was £1m, Stokes was £2m, Muamba was £4m ... thats £11m Wyn Mills .... I like your idea of 'little or no fee'
EnglishSpur
english spud, than the clubs can also cancel the agreement when, for example, the player gets injured! Both parties take a chance when committing themselves. the clubs hope that the player develops, shows good form and works for the team, and the player hopes that he can attain his goals and gets paid. If only one party to an agreement is expected to honour the agreement, the other party will not be prepared to enter into agreements. That does not suit players at all. Basically we have a good balance at the moment, and the market is relatively free. Who benefits from messing around with it? Is S ****horpe going to win the league if we implement Platini's idea?
afri-gooner
I can understand how someone who only gets to watch Premiership and Champions League football may not understand, but there are 72 other teams in England with fans who turn up in all types of weather who deserve to see good football. If young players get to stay with their clubs longer, they get competitive football earlier and will also develop their skills. Other players, playing against good youngsters will improve and the overall standard of football will improve. I see no reason why clubs like Arsenal cannot share their coaching expertise with the likes of S ****horpe, who you wish to insult but who are only in the division below having had 1% of the investment that Arsenal and other Premiership teams have. This is for the good of all football not just the small self interest of a single team. Oh, and the Spud reference .. I've seen that made before .. nice of you to have an original thought - keep it up
EnglishSpur
i dont understand you the hell he ahs had a go at wenger for this. how the hell are young players ment to get in the big teams if they stay with the likes of millwall, and another thing if he has a problem with wenger about it then he also has to point out managers like rafa, fergie ect..... what a fecking muppet
muffdaddy1983
Actually the standard will not improve as has already been established, the quality of training in England at grass roots levels is no where near the standard of abroad. So what will happen is the kids will stay at their original club (i.e Scunthorpe) and NEVER fulfil their full potential because the infrastructure just isn't there at the lower levels. Unlike abroad where they teach good technical skills at all levels of the game, it just doesn't happen in England. Unless there are significant changes from the ground upwards, no-one will benefit, we will just witness the stunted development of naturally talented players. This benefits no-one. And please do not degrade the intelligence of members here for having a different opinion with sardonic comments. Thanks.
Gunnerman
Platini's idea will change nothing and certainly is not for the good of football. If you ban the transfer of players between the ages of 14 and 16 then it will do nothing for the smaller clubs who might be able to get a fee for players like Pennant to invest in their first team if and when it suits them. The higher the standard of education you receive then generally the better the player you become. Arsenal and other premiership clubs have contributed players at all levels of the football league not just the premiership. Take a look at the FA Youth Cup final teams over the last few years and you will find plenty now plying their trade, and contributing to the quality of football, in the lower leagues.
Amos.
But EnglishSpur as has been proved with the naming of tonights Carling Cup squad, players as young as 16 do get to ply their trade at the top level. How do you think these players will be best nututred? Playing with a bunch of cloggers or training everyday with the highest regarded players in Europe? In Sport there are always winners and losers, we need both for our great game to continue, and these young players brought to Arsenal are winners, no good will come from them staying at lower league clubs. The teams may think they are benefitting from the loyalty of the youngmen but all they are doing is hindering their progress. If we want our national team to improve then these players need to be allowed to progress. It is the responsibility of each club and its staff members to find the best way to improve the clubs lot.
Rocky7
Oh and don't worry about the Spud comment, it's a term of endearment for all Spurs fans, just as "Goons" is for us! ;)
Rocky7
EnglishSpur, that's partly the point I was trying to make earlier. The so called bigger clubs also have a responsibility to smaller clubs, but in today market place most clubs are only looking out for their own interests. So I ask this question, who's going to look out for teams in the lower divisions. Their are lots of talented players out their that the big clubs miss, so they have to make their way through the lower divisions. If we don't share some of the wealth with these clubs, then the pool of good young players will simply shrink. I for one don't entirely agree with this constant harping on about Wengers policy, it's worked for them. But it would be nice to see some English players their, but at the end of the day it's up to the rest of us to prove him wrong. And the only place to do that is on the pitch, unfortunately at the moment we are not doing that.
Topspur1
Barca as far as I'm aware are a European club so why is it Arsenal gets singled out? I also disagree with the notion that our policy is detrimental to small clubs, ask the clubs that benefit from our loan system how they feel about it...12m for Theo suggests smaller clubs do very well out of us. At the end of the day its the players choice where they go to develop and further their career, given Wenger is the best in the world at doing so, its hardly suprising that so many want to come to Arsenal... In a utopian world all teams would have an equal opportunity to compete, (nevermind the eradication of poverty, universal human rights and education etc) but like any industry there will always be those who rise to the top... if you took Platinis absurd ideas to its logical conclusion, each club would only have local players, with an equal number of good and bad players, equal resources, and are run in the exact same way... In the end where is the line drawn? at what age is it ok for a player to leave? Is he suggesting that its ok for a big club to sell their star players, but not a small club? How will big and small be defined? I get the feeling this has more to do with some of the other European powers getting the hump cos Arsenal are often getting the pick of the best youngsters in the world and they are missing out...
KaoTeK
KaoTeK, you could well be right. When Madrid & AC Milan before them were buying up all the best players, not a word was said. When Chelski adopted the same policy, low and behold they want to do some thing about the amount of money clubs pay for players. You can all draw your own conclusion, but I know what mine are on that subject.
Topspur1
And however you want to describe Barcelona, we're not exactly making a poorer club worse off. As for Fran Merida Perez, that saga showed that Barca are the ones without ethics. They pursued compensation running into millions from a teenager out of petty spite because they lost another prospect and lost some face. That's right, they brought action against the boy himself, not the club he went to. It's not easy to raise £2m when your last job was a paper round. We paid it for him , as we're the ones with the ethics. The blame should be with 1. Spanish Law, which fails to protect clubs and 2. The clubs themselves for not giving their youngsters a chance. Watch us tonight against Sheffield in the Carling Cup to see what our attitude is. Our criticisms of Barca and Real are valid because most clubs have rules when it comes to tapping up players under contract. We don't use the local rag to make an approach to players (perhaps because the Highbury and Islington Gazette doesn't get noticed that much...)
Finsbury Parker
Damn, lost the top half of my post.... but the gist was that we made Cesc the player he is today, not Barcelona.
Finsbury Parker
Lol @ Finsbury Parker. Good point well made. Welcome to the site!!
Rocky7
if the prospect of going to a big club falls alway, some young players might prefer to take another job instead of having their shins kicked to shreds with a crappy team in a lower league (no disrespect) I think an example to from small to bigger is Blackburn, they gradually progressed and keep getting better. At the same time we see big clubs shrinking. How's that, Platini? Perhaps there should be a greater focus on the training academies, Uefa has plenty of money, why don't they develop more players of a higher technical standard?
afri-gooner
Totally agree topspur, its very important that the smaller clubs are well compensated when their talent moves on. And to 'englishspur' (nice new handle btw - how many is it now?) why is it on this thread, and the one on the spuds site, you seem to see points in my comments that are not there? Where did i suggest that young players should stay and develop in their respective countries? I used the Barca players to point out that whilst other clubs do it, we get singled out, and it gets called 'the Wenger way' Even your miserable lot are doing it... I believe Wenger's philosophy is spot on, the players will get the best development under the direct supervision of Le Prof.
KaoTeK
I'd personally like to see a Premiership club linked with Football League teams. Numbers limited to 28 on the first team squad, and numbers restricted on the academy numbers. Teams allowed to loan larger numbers of players to their 'friendly' clubs as well as providing coaching support - each Premiership club gains a larger catchment area - young players playing real competitive football earlier - teams generally improving with a few better players and better coaching support - if a Championship team gets promoted to the Premiership, then the link just moves to one of the relegated team. Fans of lower league clubs see better players more often, the youngsters getting more competitive experience, other players have to train harder and improve. What I meant Kaotek was that Platini shouldn't just focus on this affecting Europe, he should focus on worldwide movement of very young players who then get dumped in a 3rd country until they satisfy visa requirements or can claim a convenient passport. The only reason Wenger is singled out is because he seems to be unable to keep his mouth shut and therefore draws attention to you. Most other managers will have the same opinions but keep their thoughts to themselves. If some makes a comment and then is called stupid, then they are bound to respond? Oh and as far as I am aware KaoTek, you can only have one handle .... at least you all know my affiliation, instead of creeping onto other teams pages, making abusive comments, and failing to indicate who you support ...
EnglishSpur
do you know what this whole debate really makes me crave? Some really good football, who cares where the players are from, who cares what's happening in the corridors of power, I can't wait to see them light up the pitch! stupid politicians...
afri-gooner
Oh and is a bit rich you saying players should stay in the lower leagues when your club more or less snaps up every promising youngster in england...
KaoTeK
Finsbury Parker ... why are Barcelona without ethics? They lose a player they have developed from the age of 8. He left the club and was hidden by his agent Joseba Diaz, who offered him to Real Madrid, Manchester United and Arsenal. Merida's parents encouraged his agent to do this as they were concerned at the number of young players joining Barcelona. They did this in the knowledge that Barcelona would get no compensation, despite having invested over 7 years in him. Under Spanish Law, Barcelona would have broken the law if they had offered him a contract before he turned 18, but Arsenal could do so at 16. Having benefited from seven years of support from Barcelona, the Spanish courts decided that he had in fact signed a personal pre-contract and Barcelona deserved to have some money back on their investment. How would you feel if Arsenal spent 8 years investing in and developing a player to lose him for nothing because of the behaviour of some dodgy agent, and knowing that the law prevented you doing otherwise? Barcelona clearly realised that Arsenal would pay on behalf on Merida and it is this sort of really ugly and dirty practice by Merida's agent that Platini is trying to stamp out. Offering around a 15 year old boy to the highest bidder is a very ugly way to do business in anyone's language so maybe you are questioning the wrong party's ethics?
EnglishSpur
Maybe the way forward is for their to harmony in the ages a player can sign his 1st proffesional contract, any club would take advantage in such an obvious loop hole. Wish we had had the forsight to do it, however Barca should be lobbying to have the law changed.
Topspur1
KaoTeK, we should be so lucky buying up all these youngster. Seriously! I do think we should be giving a little more of the tv revenue to lower league clubs, perhaps their could be a stipulation that this additional money is spent on their youth academy. This way it would force them to set up a better youth team, and employ better youth team coaches. This way every one benefits as a lot of these player would end up at PL clubs, lets not forget that the tv money mostly comes from sky subscription. Which are paid by fans of big and small clubs
Topspur1
Agreed, but that would involve dealing with the civil law in different countries. Until that happened I think a voluntary arrangement to stop dirty grubby agents behaving like this the way forward. Considering the talent Merida is, the lack of faith his parents had is surprising.
EnglishSpur
Maybe UEFA should be the one stepping in at this point, they could maybe put a formula in place for paying compensation. Although it's hard to work out how you would compensate a club for the loss of Fabregas
Topspur1
lmmfao... abusive? in what way exactly? I didn't talk about my club as it bore no relevence to the point i was making...As for your multiple handle changes, do you want to be 'outed' yet again? id love to as im bloody sick of the repetitive guff you constantly come out with but out of respect for this forum I wont anymore than I have already. I'll leave it by saying we both know the truth, and trust me it wont be long before its obvious to everyone else... *cough* sir harry *cough*
KaoTeK
Kaotek, be my guest. My details are a matter of record. Would you like me to provide you with the link on how to do so? I think you have the register as a Spurs fan, go on to our forum, and there is a list of all the VitalSpurs members. The fact is I haven't made any anti-Arsenal comments, I am providing information and concerns for all fans of football that may be not available to those especially fans based outside of Europe and who aren't aware of the current machinations of the European Commission and the steps that FIFA/UEFA are trying to take. I assume that anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'outed' on this site by you, hence your feeble and lame threat. What do I care? If you lack the intelligence to suggest you know for a fact that the EU are not planning this, be my guest and provide the evidence. PS. Hope that cold gets better
EnglishSpur
If the Spanish courts decision regarding Barcelona/ Merida is upheld then surely that is problem solved - at least in Spain! It doesn't need Platini/ Uefa or any other body to get involved. Of course it might make any talented youngster think carefully before committing themselves to Barcelona for their education but that's another issue.
Amos.
afri-gooner why pick nigeria for negative comment..(if 9ja no good 4 u no mean say 9ja bad o)
cool_obed
Amos, well that would mean all Spanish clubs so unless Arsenal plan to start signing up 8 year olds they have to get their education somewhere. All Barca will have done is set a precedent for all Spanish clubs. Surely a better move would be for all clubs to stop accepting offers of children from grubby agents
EnglishSpur
lol @ topspur fair point mate but you know what i mean... I think your idea about more money being plowed into the academies of lower leagues is a very good one providing, ofcourse that the academies have a required level me standard, and this my friends, is the problem in the major problem in england...the standards at grass roots level is appalling, solving this problem benefits everyone at every level... to englishspur; whilst Arsenal will give a player a chance in the first team no matter what their age is if they have the required ability, your own team have numerous youth players who, much to the irritation me many spuds, moves get a look in... given your opinion that such players would be better served playing competitive matches in lower leagues, I take it you have a pretty dim they of your clubs youth policy?
KaoTeK
No it would simply mean that when eight year olds sign agreements with Spanish clubs their parents will employ agents to negotiate their 'education' contracts. It might mean that kids would prefer to receive their education at clubs whose demands were a little freer. Ultimately it could hinder clubs like Barca rather than help them. Then again I have no problem with the principle that if a teenager wants to pursue his education at the age of 14 - 16 elsewhere, having received a 'free' education, the club providing the education is entitled to receive some payment for it. However, if as seems to be the case with Merida, the cost of that education is £2mn then kids are going to shop around for the best 'education' deals.
Amos.
KaoTek, your youngsters only really get a look in during the CC as Wenger does not consider it a priority. You loan some players out to get some experience, but wouldn't it better for you to have some feeder clubs in the UK, where you could help your youngsters get used to living in England, share your coaching experience, and if you have a deal with Carlisle have an opportunity to scout for youngsters in that areas as well as within your own 90minutes zone. Without this arrangement, players are loaned out and there is no control over the coaching they get. And where clubs are struggling to stay afloat but are a vital part of the local community, this will be the only way they can improve their standards.
EnglishSpur
On the subject of the law in spain, isn't it up to the gov to protect the interests of spanish teams by changing the law? So they lost a talent... boohoo for them, they are one me the sneakiest, cynical clubs in the planet, its called karma, and nobody escapes it.... What would be good is if the lazy fu(ks that govern our beloved sport actually got some sort of EU wide law on agents... Still waiting on what was so abusive about what I said espud...
KaoTeK
Still waiting for you to reveal my identity KaoTeK
EnglishSpur
*Doh* once again predictive txt is comprising to make my posts half gibberish... me=of @espud in terms of what is the most beneficial for player and club, our current system works just fine, I actually like that under the loan system players get to learn from different coaches, and im sure Wenger knows what sort of training they'll be getting... as for your idea, its quite a good one, not too sure if there maybe a conflict of interest if both teams ended up playing eachother though... here's a wee tip for you; a decent debate is a 2 way street, I'm answering your questions so the polite thing is to do is reciprocate...
KaoTeK
G14!!! Thats the way forward!! Celtic are now in it! Bout time!
rk1888
Already did... Ill leave it to everyone else to make their minds up if im right or not and leave at that as im sure even you aren't daft enough to make the same mistake a 3rd time, and providing genuine evidence is something I neither have the time nor inclination to do, given Im gonna be 6 more hours on a bus i couldn't right now even if i was sad enough to want to...
KaoTeK
LOL comprising? I meant conspiring... rk everyone sees g14 as the bad guys but we need them to provide some kind of balance of power...
KaoTeK
Hmm... so easy to accuse somone me being abusive, but pretty hard to back it up with evidence when none exists... for those that want to see what a horrible man i can be to poor defenseless spuddies, it's on the article about levy deserving praise...i seem to remember another spud who was always claiming abuse where non existed... what crazy coinsidence!
KaoTeK
Yes, thanks for saving me some time ... I note you couldn't produce any sort of comeback to what GIK told you about the truth regarding investment. If you're boarding were genuine supporters they'd make sure they had 50% or more of the shares not trying to put this farcical and legally non binding no sale agreement in place. You might be interested to know that Usmanov came sniffing around us and was told unceremoniously to **** right off. Its a pity some of your shareholders don't have similar ethics but as Levy and Joe Lewis's sons have proven they were supporters before they made any sort of investment, its kind of cut you off at the knees. As it is, we are in discussion with a USA businessman, who has been the most successful team owner there of the 21st century AND has a reputation for privately funding new stadiums for his teams using his own money. Feel free to squirm your way out of backing up your accusations with something that you appear to have only a passing acquaintance with ... FACTS.
EnglishSpur
EnglishSpur..Bentley was an international with many first team appearances for Arsenal under his belt. I don't see many other English clubs selling their internationals for a cut-price £4m, do you? In any case all of these players grew up through the Academy with its state of the art facilities (which Arsenal had the foresight and good husbandry to set up) and had huge amounts of money spent on them. The fees charged for them individually are modest by English standards. As we are being constantly reminded football is a business. Its up to each club to run that business responsibily, ethically and in the manner it sees fit. While I agree that the big clubs have a responsibility to the smaller ones I see no reason why young players should be resticted to where they can play or who they can play for. That amounts to a restriction of trade and is something UEFA/FIFA tamper with to their peril.
Wyn Mills
Bentley played 1 game for Arsenal http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football-heroes/displayhero_club.asp?HeroID=8898 I count 'many' as significantly more than 1 appearance. Refusing to release players who give 3 months notice and demanding a fee for them at any time while they are playing under a contract, whether it is 12months or 8 years is also a restraint of trade. You cann't choose the laws you wish to impose.
EnglishSpur
if there was anymore comments after my 2nd reply then ive not seen them as by that point I just could not be @rsed carrying on when it was obvious the 2 of you were blatantly ignoring what i was saying, prefering to go of on irrelevant tangents. I still stand by my main point that no true fan would allow his club to become a laughing stock the way levy has...oh and well done him for hiding during their press conference whilst Comolli and Ramor blatantly life to the press.... truely a board to be proud of eh? About Usmanov, no I didnt know that, any reputable links to back that claim up? Regarding the board, ask any goods here what they feel about how the feel the board are protecting the interests nd our club, even a daft spud like you surely knows it was dein who sold the majority me au's shares - another so called fan who has shown his true colours through his actions, tell me, how could the board be held responsible for his actions? Finally can i assume you arent gonna bother to let us all know what it was you found so abusive, and as such we can see that you were lying in the first place, can i also assume that given i took the time to answer your questions, whilst you ignored mine, that there is no point in attempting civil coversation with you?
KaoTeK
*Goods= Gooner
KaoTeK
Whilst appreciating GIKs reply, there was no truth that i wasn't already aware of, and I agree with everything he said, seems that it was a simple case of misunderstanding in the first place... I fail to see how this 'cuts me of at the legs' This is your biggest problem, despite your best efforts, you will always be found out regardless of your latest handle because you have certain character traits which you can not seem to control, making it blatantly obvious who you are (and I notice for once you've not denied it)
KaoTeK
If you include League Cup, FA Cup, Charity Shield and European appearances its many. Norwich then had the benefit of his considerable 'talents' for a season or two. Anyway my point was he was a seasoned and experienced player with international experience when he was reluctantly sold at a bargain price to Blackburn. Bentley promised a lot. But he had attitude – including criticizing Wenger for not playing him more. In the end he engineered his own move away from the club and apart from the fans I can't remember anyone making a fuss about it. So as for 'refusing to release players' Arsenal don't have this sort of policy,...which is more than can be said for a certain club who let Sergei Rebrov rot his career away in the reserves. Perhaps you should read what Bentley himself said about his move before going any further: http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article2278057.ece
Wyn Mills
platinis a goon full stop its obvious he wants the bigger teams down a peg-anybody remember his proposal to make cup wiiners get champions league places
hoopymo
Please explain how Comolli and Ramos were lying? You are making a serious accusation KaoTek and talking out of your backside. As I said you are being abusive about our board, but not one of them, sold at a huge profit to a person like Usmanov. Despite you waxing lyrical about your shareholders, Fitzmann has been reducing the size of his stake ... Hill Wood sold his shares to Dein ... whilst they probably didn't expect an Usmanov, they were content to take the cash. Yes, you are using very polite language, but the content of what you are saying about our club, how it operates, is totally against the actual facts and is abusive. Abuse is not necessarily the language you use, but the smear you attempt to make. GIK, simply put you straight and and one who reads the article will see exactly that.
EnglishSpur
Wyn Mills ... official stats on Bentley from the Premiership .. at Arsenal 2002-03 - 0 full appearances 1 FA Cup sub ... 2003-04 .... 4 league cup appearance 1 Premiership, as a sub 1 Euro, 2 FA Cup ... so an exact total of 1 League appearance, 4 CC appearances and as a sub 1 European cup and 2 FA Cup .... clearly he had MANY opportunities, including 10min international club expeirence
EnglishSpur
KaoTek, I think such expressions as calling WHL as *****e heart lane, saying the media is attracted to *****e etc, are pretty abusive. What I don't understand is why you are on a specific club related article? I have written on your page, 3 times, each of them on articles that affect all of football and have tried to avoid anti Arsenal comments. Regarding referees, Amos has already said about the lack of referees. With all the abuse they get, and they are only human, is it no wonder that there are fewer and fewer referees coming through? Without a referee there is no game. Referees make mistakes. Death threats because of this are a joke. Club officials who make any criticism against officials in public should receive what happens in Rugby, touchline bans which last for several months, even when they have a case. Undermining officials, even if they are justified, undermines the game. This is understood in all sport but football is incredibly lax about it. The pathetic drivel against Blatter and Platini also merits comment. Neither are on the payroll of Arsenal. Both have given their life to football. Each have a responsibility for all clubs in all the countries they represent. FIFA has 208 national associations and despite being responsible for internationals have also led the move to get domestic competition and training properly established in such areas as Asia. They idea that either is anti-club football is horse-*****e. Why kill the golden goose? Successful club football in both domestic and european competition pours huge amounts into their coffers. It also raises the profile of football allowing international level competition to get bigger sponsorship. Platini and Blatter have the responsibility to protect the interests of all of their members worldwide. One way to do so is to reduce the movement of players, often without compensation, to a handful of the bigger teams. They have also have the responsibility to defend football against external threats, often seeing a much bigger picture and being aware of legal moves by such organisations as the EU which could wipe millions off the balance sheets of clubs and bankrupt a large number where the squad is counted amongst assets. How would Arsenal feel that if in one swoop, £150m is wiped off your assets? People say it won't happen, but 12years ago they laughed at an unknown Belgian called JeanMarc Bosman. People who slag of referees and officials like Platini and Blatter with such abuse as cowards, liars and idiots, know and care absolutely nothing about football.
EnglishSpur
It is possible to have a different opinion to yours Englishspur without being wrong. I don't see any problem in criticising Platini and Blatter. FIFA and UEFA are highly politicised institutions and not all the work they do is beyond criticism. There have been a number of televison documentaries and media reports about the alleged corruption within both bodies and particularly Blatters role in them. It is naive to suggest that there isn't a self serving agenda which favours these institutions which doesn't treat all parties equally. The G14 group of 18 clubs soon to be extended to 25 has a different view of certain aspects of governance than UEFA and FIFA. It doesn't make either side right or wrong but there are clear issues which don't command blind acceptance that every word issued from the mouths of Platini or Blatter is unchallengeable. Likewise it is clear to many who know a great deal about football that the standard of refereeing has not kept pace with other aspects of the game so decrying those who deign to make this point as not knowing or caring about football is sanctimonious claptrap.
Amos.
Amos, what I am saying is I fail to understand the need for personal abuse? Why is Howard Webb a coward? Why is Blatter an idiot? They have different opinions and interpretations. Webb is a highly regarded referee who acted on the advice of his linesman. End of. Watching the game with non-Spurs friends, we all felt, that steaming in, as some players did was bound to end in negative decisions. The point is Webb made a decision based on the information he actually had there and then. Describing him as coward simply leads to others thinking that abusing refs at all levels of the game is ok. I don't claim that what Platini or Blatter say is gospel. However they do make statements, undoubtedly considering the bigger picture. Remember the reaction of fans and managers are simply them defending their own incredibly small piece of turf, whilst FIFA/UEFA have to look after the interests of all whether big or small. And yes, there have been allegations made against Blatter as there is in a lot of organisations where positions are up for election. It should be noted that those making the allegations had their own agenda, and were often not as pure as the driven snow themselves. It should also be noted that those allegations have been investigated fully by the Swiss authorities. The Zurich prosecutors FULLY investigated the claims and found absolutely no evidence at all. The problem is that someone can be accused, investigated, cleared and the original mud slung sticks.
EnglishSpur
Hey KaoTek, to be fair to Uefa they can't make decisions that please every club. Arsenal is being singled out by Platini just to illustrate his point about players moving abroad at a young age. I agree that this is unfair, as other club to it as well. But to be fair, ALL big clubs including Arsenal have been guilty of unethical behavior. The way Real Madrid endlessly pursued Kaka through the media has left a lot to be desired. The way Arsenal signed Merida and to a lessly extent Fabregas was pretty unethical IMO. After all they were all approached by Arsenal scouts without the knowledge of Barca, while they were still play for there youth teams. In Cesc's case, Barca received not even a single penny despite nuturing away since the age of 8. In Merida's case, his agent advised him to walk out of his Barca youth contract, while negotiating a move to Arsenal. I bet you if Merida suddenly decided to walk out of his current Arsenal current, and move somewhere else you would be pretty angry. Of course Barca's courtship of Henry was equally unethical. On the point of giving young players a chance, of course among the big clubs of Europe, nobody comes close. The way Fabregas, Flamani and Hleb are playing are extraordinary. The way Wenger development young unknown players into great players is simply amazing. Man U, well C.Ronaldo is spectacular, Rooney and Tevez are developing a great understanding and Nani and Anderson look great too. Liverpool and chelsea, not much emphasis on youth development at tall. Barcelona are actual do give young players a chance. People may mention Henry, but his signing was all about the president, Laporta to prove a point to his many opponents that he can attract a big name to the club without the help of the former Vice-president who was responsible for the signing of Ronaldinho. At Barca Xavi and Iniesta made their 1st team debuts as teenagers, more recently Messi, Giovanni and Bojan. Puyol and Valdes are also from the youth team. AC Milan are a club that definitely doesn't young players a chance. Look at Courcuff, he's languishing on the bench inspite of a aging Clarence Seedorf. Speaking of Milan, I think that Arsene Wenger should seriously consider signing Alexandre Pato, who will simply get no where at Milan.
zoolander88
Describing the actions of a referee as cowardly or idiotic or foolish is a criticism of the actions more than personal abuse but in any event this is an internet comments section not the Oxford Debating Society. What compels you to feel you need to be self appointed arbiter of the language used? If someone wants to express an opnion forcibly then why not do so provided they are prepared to back up their judgement with reasoned argument? As for Blatter being cleared by Zurich prosecutors that is bunkum I am afraid. There hasn't been a prosecution because Blatter controls the means of investigation - FIFA is a closed shop in this regard. There was a limited look into allegations of vote rigging after his re-election which was 'not proven' but not FULLY cleared either. There was a Panorama program only a couple of weeks ago which raised fresh allegations of corruption. Before deciding whether we should bend our knees at the alter of Blatter and his cronies take a look at the work of Andrew Jennings at http://www.transparencyinsport.org/ and perhaps read a book called 'How they stole the game' by David Yallop. If you have an open mind you might then reconsider whether you are the only one who 'knows or cares about football' and maybe decide that you are shooting at the wrong targets.
Amos.
zoolander - quite a few inaccuracies in your comments. 1. Barca WAS paid compensation for Cesc £1M plus a waiver of some fees related to Von Bronkhorst's transfer 2. This was not a contractual payment that Arsenal was obligated to make since there was no contract in the 1st place 3. Merida cannot move elsewhere now coz he has a contract, he did not have one earlier at Barca, which is the root of all this trouble, that Spanish kids below 16 cannot sign contracts 4. I dont see what Arsenal did that was so unethical. If Merida's agent hid him from Barca, that might be so, but nothing to indicate that Arsenal had a hand in it.
prits
Amos, as FIFA is registered in Switzerland, Swiss prosceuters must see all documents in an investigation or they can prosecute people for withholding evidence. How can FIFA have controlled an external investigation? It was investigated by the Swiss police and their prosecution service. The internal investigation was stopped because there was no point in continuing an investigation when the police said they could find no evidence. Does it surprise you that the person backing the investigation was Blatter's challenger Johanssen? The authors of those books have offered their own opinions - not facts. Michael Zen-Ruffinen actually went to the police. The practices described in the books, will be found in many organisations. Most of the scandal revolves around the marketing company ISL, not Blatter. No mention is made of the millions ploughed into developing football in the third world. Regarding Refs I just think the language used is pathetic. All those abusing referees are the ones complaining there are not enough of them. Well who'd want to be a referee if they do a 'google' search of their name and find all this c**p being said about them?
EnglishSpur
Cheers for providing yet more laughs espud, the more you defend yourself, the funnier it gets, given your board has been universaly branded as a complete disgrace from blogs to broadsheets. including a large majority of your own fans, i guess you are reeling from the level of 'abuse' levelled at the mugs who run your club, if this is the abusive behaviour I stand charged with, them with pride I plead guilty... Dein sold his shares many moons ago, so I think can forgive my board for lacking a crystal ball, and it bears no relevance in any case, there is a huge difference between a shareholder and a board member. I have lauded our board and our fans over the whole Usmanov affair, we are one of a select few clubs that can hand on heart say our board are truely custodians of our club... yours are a bunch of self serving cretins who are a disgrace to your club and football in general. both ramos and comolli lied, its been widely reported - for the exact quotes check out yesterdays media watch on football365. Calling your stadium $hit£ hart lane isn't abuse, its honesty, and my comments about the media was a generalisation meaning they'll go wherever the stories are, we suffered from it in preseason, liverpool and you are getting it now, and no doubt somone else will be in their targets soon enough... I made the comment because for some bizare reason I actually felt sorry for you spuds, and thought it odd that whilst most spuddies are disgusted with levy's actions there was an article to justify and gloss over them, my point being even you lot dont deserve that treatment... Tell me oh english spud, why is it that so many of your fellow supporters have expressed exactly the same views, on the net, in the papers, and even on TV? The fact is, your club has provided countless reasons for ridicule, yet you'll find Ive resisted the temptation to come on your site and rub it in, I've only commented on one other article, whilst my opinion may be regarded as abusive by your over sensitive standards, you'll find that it was broadly agreed with. Personally, I wish you'd just fu(k off and keep your 'facts' to yourself as imo, due to your inability to engage in genuine debate and take on the opinions of others, makes your posts, however relevant or interesting they may be, little more than spam. The fact I have to explain every tiny detail in order for you to (hopefully) understand my original points speaks volumes....
KaoTeK
I think Comolli is a clown but lying is saying something you deliberately know is not true. You still haven't said what the actual lies are? The true custodians who until Usmanov turned up offloaded shares. ENIC have actually been increasingly their stake in the club. Can I ask the last time you went to White Hart Lane?
EnglishSpur
Your grasp of the facts is less than it should be. There hasn't been an external prosecution - as yet. There is currently a case still to open in March next year when the criminal court of the Swiss canton of Zug hears the evidence of contract kickbacks paid to FIFA officials by the ISL company. This case most certainly involves FIFA and its officials. Other investigations are ongoing but not yet prosecuted. Both Yallop and Jennings, working for the BBC and other respected news agencies, are investigative journalists whose work has produced plenty of fact based allegations - neither have been sued by FIFA or the officials named. I have no doubt that many millions are going into 3rd world football but some less deserving cases are living very nicely out of it too. For further guidance on the propriety of FIFA try the words of the Mastercard lawyer following their successful action against FIFA last year: 'Lying and deception and bad faith are standard operating procedure at FIFA.'
Amos.
From the Swiss News Agency, "Blatter’s opponents, who included European football chief Lennart Johansson and former Fifa general-secretary Michael Zen Ruffinen, subsequently withdrew their accusations against Blatter, but the Zurich prosecutors’ office insisted that the accusations would still need looking into. Having now investigated and dismissed the claims, the office noted on Wednesday that Blatter’s opponents could yet appeal against the decision to drop the charges. Blatter himself, though, seemed in little doubt as to his victory. “I have chosen to refuse any legal redress or compensation due to me,” the Fifa president concluded. .... Zen-Ruffisen and Johanssen withdrew their accusations. Some books containing similar allegations have been blocked by the Swiss courts namely Goldblatts, but freedom of information means they cannot be bloecked everywhere. I note all your sources only appear from the 'transparency in football' site. Mastercards response is hardly surprising. FIFA decided not to renew their deal and went to VISA instead. According to the lawyers Denton Wilde Sapte, it revolved around the belief that Mastercard has the right to first refusal ... its a squabble about suppliers ... here is the opinion offered http://www.dentonwildesapte.com/assets/1/18922.pdf “I would rather follow the proposal of the prosecutors’ office that Fifa covers the cost of this frivolous process by making a donation to a charitable organisation in the canton of Zurich.”
EnglishSpur
With reference to the Zug case that is a case where ISL is being prosecuted.
EnglishSpur
You are talking about a different matter, amongst many, which was never prosecuted, due to FIFA's closed shop policy, though a Swiss lawyer, Hildebrand, is still investigating some of the issues. The ISL affair hasn't yet been heard and though this case is directed against ISL it directly implicates FIFA and its officials in kickbacks. If the case is proven against ISL then FIFA are unlikely to come out of it with their hands clean. As for the books the fact that FIFA may have had them banned in some corner of the world doesn't prevent them suing the authors for defamation, slander or libel. Why do you imagine they haven't done so? There are plenty of sources across the internet and the wider media highly critical of FIFA and its practices. I could list many more but I suspect your views are too deeply entrenched to benefit. I also think you are dismissing the Mastercard/Visa affair too lightly. FIFA's actions were described in excoriating terms by the presiding Judge in New York and led to the dismissal of 4 FIFA officials -but only after the judgement went against them. Mere supplier squabbles don't usually have those consequences and wouldn't, as was estimated earlier this year, have cost FIFA about €75m.
Amos.
fu(k it i am so bored of this... ignorance is bliss so enjoy it...
KaoTeK
He's just an attention seeking old bugger!!
will it ever happen
 

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