I Almost Feel Sorry For 'Em

Well at least you admit we were the better team. We should have won convincingly tonight but again we just can't beat you. Very angry if im honest even though I would have taken 1-1 before the game.

allow me to join in with a smirk and a declaration that Senderos is *****.

they cant really keep a lead againnst us can they?refgardless of who we play and how we play..really feels good to be a gooner

Rocky I'm begining to believe you, I still can't believe we've let you off the hook again.

And God wrote a 13th commandment: 'Spurs, Thou shalt not defeat the Arsenal' And he looked upon the Emirates and saw that it was good.

That's the last time I go to bloody church, I mean that. I'm not going to church until we beat the Gooners

One non religious funeral for topspur1 it'll be then! :)

There's no other explanation. How in the seven names of Satan did we not lose that game?

Rocky7 I agree, god is a gooner!

Thing - Wyn is a gooner!!

I'm a gooner mate. I'm still staring at the TV wondering how we managed to mug those poor spuds yet again. The sheer law of averages should have swung the scum's way a long time ago. I was feeling generous tonight...but I guess God had other ideas.

I'll admit that whilst I really want to get to the final, if the run has to end, I hope its in this competition. That said, I'm so glad they didn't beat us on our own turf. If we go out we go out, the kids have nothing more to prove, they are going to be quality players.

LOL! Amos, I wondered what that stripe running across his nonce was.

Your feelings are not quite correct Mr.G4L.

I thought that somebody had crimped off a Bungles finger on his head!

What is crystal clear from tonight is that with Senderos filling in while Toure is away we're in for a heart stopping January.

Despite being happy for not losing after playing very bad, the match gave a clear message of what the squad lacks, which could have given us a much better performances, and that is a left winger and a quality center back, (I hope something is done before the transfer window close). I thought if Lansbury was playing today he would have shined instead of the helpless Denilson, on the other hand Hoyote and Sagna were lions at the back.

exactly arsenal4ever i thought hoyte and sanga had a good game and that denilson is a ******** pratt he does he know how to play football, cant pass or take freekicks and he is not very creative. intresting point in lansbury though i think he played for the reserves a few days ago so he coudnt play also did you notice randall toucehs when he cameon the were quite slick (for 2 minutes he had on the pitch) if i do say so my self

Everything agreed. Now my 2 questions are: (1) How can we lose to Spurs, maybe easier at WHL? (2) How's Arsene going to fix the central defence with Kolo gone? And since God's a (proven) Gooner now, I'll keep praying to Him that Gallas stays healthy and fit and motivated and raring to go and scoring important goals in big games and so on...

I think you're being a tad harsh on Denilson. nr790. He does play well for us in the CC and hi performance against Sp*rs last year proves that. He's still young He also played well against Burnley so I don't think you should be slating him over a performance or two.

Diaby is frustrating. He is a ball hog. He doesn't pass unless he absolutely has to. Tries to take the whole team on. He needs to learn when to release the ball and team work and he'll be a very good player.

Off topic (sorry I'm the off-topic queen) but interesting to see some German reports that say Mad Jens is officially off: http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=541186

Louisa, here is something to answer your question.. Speaking after tonight's Carling Cup draw with Tottenham, Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger strongly denied that any agreement had been reached for the transfer of the veteran. 'It's not true,' Wenger said regarding the reports from Germany. 'Not for Jens and not for us. 'I deny that Jens has agreed personal terms with Dortmund and I deny that we have an agreement with Dortmund.'

About the new injuries, is there official news on it? If its true, we have Hoyte like today to deputise and Gallas. Now you all see the reason why AW really is keen to keep Hoyte, he stabilized the defence today.

Yeah AW has said that Djourou, Senderos and RvP suffered injuries, but didn't mention Theo who didn't look too good either. http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?thisNav=News&article=486123&lid=NewsHeadline&Title=Ars%26egrave;ne+Wenger:+%27We+had+resilience+and+didn%27t+give+in%27

The best pass of the game on our side was Eduardo's that led to the goal - may have fluked in, but the pass was beautiful. Anyway I'm relieved this game's out of the way, and that the pressure is now all on the Spuds... we haven't got anything to lose which will hopefully make our guys a bit calmer so they can play better in a fortnight! Does anyone know what happens if it ends goal-less at WHL? is it extra time or do the away goals count?

WYBI, they did play well and we didn't, simple as that. In your words: would you believe it?!

The away goals rule only applies after extra time has been played. So if its 0-0 on the night after 90 minutes we play extra time and if it stays that way they win. If it's still all square on away goals after extra time (i.e 1-1) then it goes to penalties.

Memory like a sieve... thanks Louisa!

With 4 players coming off injured, I'm glad the next game is Birmingham. Not to say it's an easy ride though - they've seen a bit of improvement working with McLeish. If Djourou and Senderos stay out, we may need Hoyte in CB again. RvP and Theo can be replaced - well like we've been doing without them before these few weeks really. The worst-case scenario of long-term injury to the CB's, we might need to loan someone in the short term.

Louisa- Any idea how long the injuries are? We're able to replace Walcott because Eboue was there. Now he's off. Anyone else injured? Hleb? Cesc? Or is it only Senderos, Djourou, Walcott and RvP?

But Arsene in the post-match interview only mentioned Djourou, Senderos and RvP, but not Walcott who walked off towards the end, maybe he's fine, I don't know. The most frustrating is RvP's! I had been waiting and waiting for him to come back, in fact quite surprised he made it tonight, as Arsene's been saying Birmingham or soon after, but not before. Arsene wouldn't have rushed him back. But we could have started Eduardo instead of him to be honest. Anyway, we'll know more soon I hope.

Senderos and Gilberto were terrible tonight. We lacked someone in midfield to control the tempo of the game. I think Arsene should re-think Diarra's situation as i believe its time for Bert to make way. And we definently need a CB in the Jan window. p.s Completely off topic bit does anyone know about Carlos Vela? It was said he was coming back in January but im yet to hear anything more

LMAO nikolaijns...Aussie Gooner, Carlos Vela will only join us next season..Senderos needs Gallas around him to be alert but to be fair, Djourou's performance didn't help Senderos too, all in all Senderos didn't have the worst game but an average one with one nice tackle that could have caused a goal.

funny article check it out http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6071-European_Football-Arsenal-FC_Barcelona-J_Accuse_Thierry_Henry_Lays_Claim_to_Scowling_Celebration-090108

We have to score 2 goals at WHL and I think we'll get through.. the away goals rule applies after 120 mins in the CL.

LD, Spuds didn't fear us because they knew our defence was light and they had their top strikers against us with Loads of experience from different cup games (reffering to age and number of games under their belts). On top of that, we didn't tear their defence apart because our midfield was poor no link up with the strikers.

I feel good because we will sell Gilberto. The only problemn is that we will be left with only Cesc, Flamini (the PARTNERSHIP!!!!!!), Denilson and Diaby. That is not enough especially when two of them look rud (yes, I said "rud" not a mistake) alongside Cesc.

I also want to know why Arsene never gives Gibbs a chance. He is a natural to the left wing & would surely be a better option than Diaby on that side, he is also more direct & would put in crosses for Bendtner & Eduardo. He caused Inter no end of problems so there's no reason he couldn't do the same to spurs.

Though his passing was a bit off at times last night Gilberto was still the best of our midfielders by some distance yesterday. He gets himself into space well and gives the others a pass to make. Unfortunately Diaby, Denilson and Walcott were all having great difficulty retaining possession and wasted possession much more than Gilberto did. They did little to create space for themselves or for their midfield partners. It was a good break forward by Gilberto to feed Eduardo that set up our goal. We do lose tempo when Gilberto plays but others were much more at fault than he was last night. We know that they are all capable of playing well but they don't play consistently so consistency will be lacking at times. That is always going to be the problem with young players and that is really what the CC is all about for us. Not beating the Spuds this year or Chelsea in last years final but giving the kids experience through a competition that doesn't really matter. Hopefully they will have got something from this game - and without taking too much damage.

I understand about Diaby being out of position, but he was plain lazy. The only time he broke a sweat was to try and kick Jenas. I have to disagree slightly about Gilberto, Malbranque, Lennon, Berba and Keane were all dropping off and dictating play and I didn't see Gilberto picking up at all. Bendtner and Hoyte tried, that's pretty much all I can say. Hopefully they'll learn from this. There's a proverb that says a smooth sea never made for a skilled mariner.

Only Half Time And Arse Will Win The Replay..!

Agree with LD, Diaby was lazy as **** last night. Then when there was half a chance he could pull something off he would linger over the ball for too long and the chance would be wasted. Fairplay to the spuds, they were the better team last night but they choked. On thie showing though I don't think the kids have it in them to turn them over at S**te Hart Lane.

I'm not worried about the return game at all. If we lose then so be it, I don't really think any gooner has the cc top of their priority list & whilst it would be great to see the kids win the trophy at wembley I have no doubt they will come back & go for it again next year............LD, I said several months after Diaby joined us that there was a problem with his fitness & that still appears the case. He has never been a 90 minute player & I do understand he comes across as lazy, but in reality there wasn't enough movement or enough options last night when he did get the ball. I would like to see him play CM with Diarra in the return game (unlikely as Diarra will probably have left by then) & just see how he performs. If he puts in another lazy performance then I'd agree with you completely, but I do think he deserves a chance. After all Flamini refused to play at left back & he got given his wish!!

AFC85Lew, he just isn't a 90 minute player. His stamina seems to go, maybe there is something more to it but I'm not a doctor!!

Yes - King looked solid at the back up until he let Walcott get in behind him to score.

We are joint top scorers in the league along with yourselves, Berbatov and Keane is a great partnership and deep down you mugs know it!!!

Ha ha, love it! we played as badly as i've ever seen us play and they still couldn't get a result! I went to Vital Suprs and told them i now know how they feel celebrating a draw as if it was a win!

Berbatov and Keane are very good forwards but not great - Berbatov wants away and I am not sure that Ramos rates Keanes all round play quite as highly as you do. So next seasons gonna be the one for Spuds then - eh sport? Has a familiar ring to it that does.

just like to say how much i appreciated theo's celebration in front of the spuds...classic!

Fair enough we had an off-day, but this game only makes it clearer that we should be hanging onto Diarra. He is not a Flamini but not a Fabregas, and seems to be exactly halfway between the two. Thinking of a direct Cesc replacement, I honestly believe that however unlikely, he is the closest we have and even edges out Denilson.

We will and should stick with the kids for the second leg, the manager trusts them and so do I. We got away with it last night, but they were good enough to beat Blackburn away and Newcastle, so they are perfectly capable of beating Tottenham. Even if they don't, the learning curve for them will be invaluable.

Wouldyoubelieveit i would still take Denilson but id much prefer Diarra as he is much further developed as a player. If wenger plays the same team that started yesterday i can see us winning by quite a margin at the lane.

Continue to show complete disregard for the opposition. Play the kids again, they'll be good enough for that lot!

Sport- Why do you think the same team will play the same way? Surely they'll be given a talking to by Arsene and they will improve. They will want to prove to all Arsenal fans that they can do a job. What better way to prove to us, Wenger and themselves that they're the future of this club than by beating one of our nearest rivals? I wont be surprised if they put in one heck of a performance in two weeks. They can still beat you mind you especially when you're team have a history of throwing away leads. You're speaking to prematurely.

unreal, i thought last tonight would of been spuddies first win against us, even if a reserve team, but as i pointed out in the second half, we score most of our goals 4th quarter of the game and spurs concede most of their goals second half, it had draw all over it ! the difference ladies and gents is we don't care if we get to the final where for most spurs fans its silverware and very important !

Wouldyoubeliveit?! the midfield that wenger played is poor. Diaby is crap he cant tackle or pass and gives away the ball, walnut is the exact same. Gilberto is like clumsy pensioner who wishes he was somewhere else and denilson is still abit raw for this level. Wenger has shot himself in the foot by letting Diarra go as neither gilberto or denilson could cover for cesc or flamini. We will win easy at the lane 3-1

PG, I read that as "for most Spurs fans its silverware and therefore impotent"!

I've just written up a whole match report, but for some reason it hasn't published. Needless to say I have neither the time, nor the inclination to do it again. Most of what I made of the game is on the forum anyway.

"We will win easy at the lane 3-1" Sport- Haven't your past experiences taught you anything? You have been saying this for about 8-9 years and not once have you beaten us. You should think twice about making such predictions buddy. It could make you look like muppet. For all you know this could have been a one of performance from either of us. Never count us out particularly against the $hit defenders you have.

I agree with number14, Walcott just isn't showing any promise.. whenever he picks it up he doesn't know what to do. He has been lucky getting thru a lot of challenges to appear like he's got skill but its not there. He's had a lot more appearances than most players and wasn't he supposed to be a free kick taker as well? Reckon Wenger is hating the fact that we drew spurs this round. Last year it didnt matter so much but now we're top of the league its an extra hassle to worry about as there's a certain obligation to the fans to beat the spuds.

What about the "Theo is finally showing promise" comments before he got injured? The point is he is full of potential and sometimes he plays well sometimes he doesn't. But that's expected as he still young and raw. Lets not have two faces here shall we?

Agree with you guys... we can't have it both ways - bringing players up means you have to go through the mixture of pleasure and pain when you watch them grow. Amos is right that we need to give people time. Theo is NOT the finished article and we shouldn't expect him to be. Arsene puts him on show to let him learn and because he expects great things from him in future.

AGree completely that we need to give the youth time, but what about us fans, the soul of the Arsenal - i appreciate that this is a kiddies competition for Arsene to allow their development, but in echoing the sentiment that it was a shame to draw the spuddies, i don't want to lose against them at all. Ever. Not if we can avoid it, and for that reason would play a slightly stronger team. I personally think the CC competition should overhaul the subs rules to allow 5 or 6 subs to be used.

Because for the secopnd half of the game, i was bricking it at the thought of having only sub left when the first half was so poor, and also at the inexperience of the subs that we had given that we were a goal down and needed some experience and some gallas fire or cesc or hleb creativity in the midfield. I would like the option of the old heads in that situation with the youngsters also on the bench in case we are doing ok and can afford to play them - i basically want to have my cake and eat it Coastarian!

we will beat you at the lane..it will go into extra time and defoe will score the winning goal.then your lot can start telling that we never defeated you in normal time and crap..

Spurs_fan_from_india, even if you win we have more important things on our mind. The Premiership for one. Besides, only losing 1 in 21 isnt all that bad at all is it now?

I'm optimistic our guys will get through by winning at WHL for a few reasons: (1) they'll play 3 games (no less than Chelsea away, Reading away (FA Cup replay, another goal feast?) and Sunderland home), while we have 2 only (Birminhamg home, Fulham away); (2) their first-teamers will get tired, while only about 3 of Arsenal players who'll play in the 2nd leg will have appeared in the 2 games in between; (3) the fringe players will learn from this experience; (4) we actually have impressive record in away CC games - Everton, Liverpool and Spurs last year, Blackburn this; (5) it's not that the kids lack talent or technical ability, their bad performance was down to inconsistency. The only worry I have is the multiple injuries, especially when Djourou's "definitely out for Birmingham" as reported on arsenal.com.

If Ramos has any brains he will play his kids against Reading. Whats the point in them going through just to get knocked out by Man Utd in the next round (infact its better for them to lose to reading because otherwise they will get the usual stick about losing to a top four team again). The CC is their only realistic chance so he may as well put all his eggs into the one basket, knowing full well its the fourth priority for Arsenal & Wenger really isn't bothered. I still think Chelski will win the cup anyway.

Your kids ... ? In your team, all bar Hoyte and Traore are full internationals for their respective nations. Cerny, Dawson, Malbranque, and O'Hara have yet to represent their national side. King has only just recovered from long term injury and is not match fit. ..... it was the worst game you've played in a long time and comes only recently after you sneaked a win with a full strength side against our injury hit team, needing Tainio to turn out a la Flamini at full back. It will be interesting to see who Wenger selects for WHL, and whether it makes any difference. At least the result has made the departure of Defoe more likely - loved the comment about his silly hairstyle if you can dignify its stupidity with such a description.

Our first team players earn a hell of a lot more than Spurs first team players & thats why our wage bill is higher. However the wage bill has come down considerable since we got rid of Henry, Ljungberg & Co, which will show in the next set of accounts. Spurs wage bill on the other hand will just keep going upwards. Although to be fair spurs have done well to keep a strict wage structure in place, through this boom period. You're quite right though, the kids aren't cheap (in terms of salary), but players at 17-18 years old have agents that know their true worth (in this market place) & as such they demand high wages or they go elsewhere, the upside is that our academy is now really producing youngsters & they won't command the same wages as an in demand 18 year old foreigner would. In the next 3-5 years Arsenal will only sign the best foreign youngsters because we will be producing our own quality through the academy.

Ashburton Gooner, Your right, Henry ect have left but you have signed a couple of players. I don't follow your club closely enough to know wether you have put some of your young successful players on improved long term contracts but that would also have an impact. Man Utd have bought in quite a few players, so I expect their wage bill has also seen a substantial rise. "we will be producing our own quality through the academy" about time, you have the set up and coaching staff at the moment, it would benefit your (Arsenals) finance and possibly the England national team. Stop stealing!

I see nothing at all wrong with paying high wages if that is what it takes to attract the best young talent. It certainly makes more sense than playing inflated transfer fees, agents commission et c. I don't expect our wage bill to drop substantially if at all in the next accounts. New contracts for Cesc, Toure and others will all impact on that. Our whole financial plan with the new stadium, TV channel, international brand development is all designed to ensure we can continue to buy in good young talent as well as developing our own. What we won't do is blow a quarter of our annual wage bill with £21m on SWP or even £16m on Bent. Our players will usually show a profit when we move them on. That's just good resource management.

AG How did we steal Lennon, taraabt ect? We didnt use any loop holes to buy any of our players. I admit Leeds were not in great position to negotiate but whose fault was that? Barca went through the process of developing Fabregas through their academy, but due to his age were unable to put him on a contract legally. So Wenger jumps in and STEALS him. Wether he would have had the chance at Barca or not is irrelevant, there was no transfer fee for the time Barca invested in him. Then to make things worse you do it again at the same club with Fran Merida. You have also been heavily linked with the talented Bojan Krkic, a 16 year old kid at the SAME club. You have to feel sorry for Barca, legaly there is nothing they can do about it but imo its not a fair way of doing business. If the shoe was on the other foot what would you call it. Problem is you don't have a player worth the effort. If you did Wenger wouldnt need to use these tactics and would develop his own.

Guyver, you are wrong again!! Regardless of a transfer fee those youngsters have been developed by another club so based on your argument, why shouldn't that club have the benefit of that player before they move off?? After all spurs come in & steal them, then stick them in the reserves. We gave Barca compensation for Fabregas & it was more than Spurs paid to Leeds for Lennon. Merida was Barca's f*** up, Fran's parents signed an agreement with Barca but their moronic president didn't feel the need to sign it himself (or maybe he thought that way he could get out the contract if they felt they didn't need Merida). We paid money for Flamini & overall we paid money for pretty much every other player you care to mention. Nordtveit & Sunu who came in the summer we paid a few million for, so I still don't get your point. If Spurs don't steal players because they pay transfer fees, then why do Arsenal steal when they give an equal or higher amount of compensation?

Anyway before you come back with any tiresome arguments cast your mind back to 2001 & a certain Rohan Ricketts who was offered a pro contract at Arsenal, I wonder who came in & stole him?? Did Arsenal whine & moan about it? No & they didn't go for compensation either, because if a player chooses to leave at whatever age & if they don't have a contract, then Arsene doesn't spend his life crying about it!!

Rohan Ricketts was offered a contract which he didn't sign it doesn't matter if he was 15 or 19, there is no difference between that & what happened with Cesc, Arsenal developed him but just didn't cry about the cost involved. Barca couldn't get Fabregas to sign a contract at that age but it doesn't mean they couldn't match Arsenal's offer & give him a contract when he was old enough. Barca's issue was that they wasn't prepared to offer the same terms to Cesc because then all their youngsters would be asking for the same & due to the fact they spend so much money on buying players & paying ridiculous wages to has beens they couldn't afford it. It was reported in just about every newspaper that arsenal gave them 200-300k to stop them whining, however I can't prove that but what I do know as fact is that we gave them Van Bronckhorst as compo (& you can't deny he was worth at least 3-4 million at that time). Why do you keep going on about Dos Santos (we have Vela, who in my opinion is better anyway), Dos Santos has a buyout clause of 10 million, so if Arsenal wanted him & he wanted to leave I'm pretty sure Arsenal could more than afford it. You clearly don't understand how teams tap up players, Leeds didn't want to sell Lennon & certainly not for 1 million but spurs took advantage & thats far worse than anything arsenal have done, spurs had tapped him up through the media to unsettle him & if you can't see that then you're very naive. No matter how much you try & argue you're just showing how jealous you are that spurs cannot attract top youngsters & certainly jealous of the fact you pay fees like 16.5 million for rubbish like Bent. Players have to learn their trade somewhere, but at some stage they have to make the decision to stay or leave. Cesc decided to leave for Arsenal & clearly for him that was the right decision, he WASN'T going to sign a deal with Barca because they didn't rate him, so who's fault is that?? After all Arsenal couldn't pay him decent wages any sooner than Barca could, due to our own laws.

"due to the fact they spend so much money on buying players & paying ridiculous wages to has beens they couldn't afford it" Maybe, but this is complimented by 1 of the best youth development systems in the world. Gerard Pique is another 1, they have many more, most born in the same city.

Ive seen Vela and Dos Santos play and although I don't think theirs too much between them, I'll agree that Vela looks more promising.