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Tight-Wad Spurs Empty Gooner Wallets

For the second season in succession, Tottenham have tried to recoup some of their poorly spent transfer kitty by ripping off both Arsenal & Tottenham fans.

In the Carling cup, 45% of the gate receipts goes to the away side, and as with last year the tight-wads from the Lane insisted that the semi-final tickets be priced as high as possible, despite Arsenal Football Club wanting to continue with their usual League Cup ticket price cut.

Tottenham's director Paul Barber was quoted in the Daily Mail as saying: 'A cup semi-final against our biggest rivals is just about the biggest game anyone could see at White Hart Lane. Our policy is to take the Carling Cup very seriously. We put out our first team.'

It's all very well to dictate the prices at your own ground, but forcing another team to raise their ticket prices so greedy Spurs fat cats can pocket a few more pennies just seems plain wrong.




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The Journalist

Writer: Rocky7 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Sunday January 20 2008

Time: 2:32PM

Your Comments

'A cup semi-final against our biggest rivals is just about the biggest game anyone could see at White Hart Lane. 'Wow, I agree, a league cup semi-final is just about the biggest game anyone could see at white hart lane.
k_chelski
Apparently its a rubbish ground so I'm not sure what all the squealing is about. As said, why should we drop our prices? If you support your team, pay the ticket price; if not, stop whinging
EnglishSpur
Sad is'int it. That director sums up the spuds ambitions perfectly their gratest desire is to win the mighty Carling cup, sad, very sad.
Armory
Armory, what is really sad is your inability to read. Barber said 'A cup semi-final against our biggest rivals is just about the biggest game anyone could see at White Hart Lane. Our policy is to take the Carling Cup very seriously. We put out our first team.' Using my tenuous grasp of English I can't quite see where he has said our gratest (haha) desire is to win the mighty Carling Cup. Surely every team should try to win every game they play in?
EnglishSpur
great stance ENGLISHspud
G4L
now now lads, dont crush their dreams of cup success! keep reaching towards those stars little spuddies! who knows next season ye might get into the top half of the table too... wouldnt that be nice!
Unwell
it means: a Carling Cup semi-final against our greatest (?!) rivals - about the only opportunity to go to a Cup final in the odd decade, and a perfect opportunity to line our pockets with the money from our staunch but naive support. Also a rare occasion to win against Arsenal's 2nd string, as they seem to take this competition lightly. What a bunch of clowns.
G4L
Everton have whacked prices up to the usual league ones now to, been 15 quid the whole way till now 30. Don't care though, our biggest game in over a decade i'm sure the old lady will be rocking as we batter the russians
EvertonMike
I am sure u had bigger games than this Mike (Villareal Champs league?).
G4L
Financially possibly agree with you, but as fans we just want a cup now and i don't think anyone believed we would of won the champions league
EvertonMike
Oh look, ES is here. The biggest hypocrite on Vital. Only two days ago he was speak about people not being able to afford to go to every game, and now.....oh look his stance has change to try and wind up a few gooners. As stated at the bottom of the article, I don't care what you do at your own little dump, I just think that Spurs having a say at ticket prices at our ground when our board wants the fans to get a price cut is wrong. Now haven't you got someone to report for racism? Ah yes I forgot, you're too much of a coward to do that.
Rocky7
Err.. just trying to use some business intelligence, which is clearly lacking here ... what business would drop its prices for any product which is going to be sold out whatever is charged? What a bunch of clowns are those whinging that this should occur. And considering your 1st string has recently been playing little better than your 2nd string I'm not sure we mind who you select. You'll be wishing you made more effort when Milan knock you out of the CL.
EnglishSpur
There,s nothing wrong with my ability to read es 'A cup semi-final against our biggest rivals is just about the biggest game anyone could see at White Hart Lane. Our policy is to take the Carling Cup very seriously. We put out our first team. First of all I am fully aware that the spud director doe's not "say" that it would be their greatest desire to win the cc, it's the action on and off the pitch that say's it all, usless in Europe hopless in the EPL and about to go out of the FA cup now what does that leave us, oh yea the mighty Carling cup, sad, very sad.
Armory
Actually ES, the prices of the the CC tickets saw the smallest crowd at Ashburton Grove EVER!! That includes friendlies. And it's not about business sense, it's about trying to cut the fans some slack. Something which you'd probably agree with had it been on any other site apart from this one.
Rocky7
I think it's a disgrace. The poor spuds have to pay an arm and a leg of their hard-earned money, only to see their hapless attempt at a football team bowled over by the Arsenal second string. Oh well, keep believing in the Carling Cup dream, there's always next year. You only came to see The Arsenal!
super_gooner
It was exactly the same yesterday, Fulham charged us £45. I'm sick of small clubs thinking that Arsenal fans must be rich because our team is good. If Spurs can't watch good football every week, that's their problem. Charge them more when decent sides come to entertain them, but don't charge our fans more as well. Especially not at our own ground!
Little Dutch
Of course it's business and like any business it's an opportunity to invest in the future. By encouraging fans (younger fans or family groups perhaps) who may not have the resources to visit Premiership or Champions league games to attend minor competitions you lay the foundation for fans of the future to attend matches. Arsenal uses the competition to blood young players and perhaps young fans. It's just good business to do so. Then again others take a shorter term view of their businesses, over spend desperately on player transfers and change managers almost annually. Maybe looking after your customers would be a better business strategy.
Amos.
That is the precise reason that the atmos at our home games in recent seasons has been better at CC games. Firstly, people get the chance to move about I suppose and sit with friends. But mainly it gives people who can't go the chance to attend a game and the enthusiasm is much stronger. Plus, we all know how addictive it is once you go for the first time.
Little Dutch
You just have to laugh at the spuds. They actually went to the lengths of resting some first team players yesterday (despite being in a relegation fight), because they are taking the CC that seriously!! Their desperation to be in europe next year is laughable & will only backfire on them. I do fully expect they will get to the final (if Wenger plays virtually the same team, although it has to change slightly as RVP & Djourou are both out injured) but even if that does happen, they won't get past Chelski or Everton!! Seeing the spuds humiliate themselves at Wembley would brighten up the start of 2008 no end!!
Ashburton Gooner
Interestingly, Article 81 of the European Community Treaty prohibits cartels and other “concerted practices” that distort competition. Price fixing is an example of "illegal concerted action". Perhaps someone should be having a word with the Department of Trade & Industry.
Amos.
LD, didn't I say a few weeks ago that Arsenal never wanted to charge higher prices for these games & that it was the spuds who forced them into it. It's just further evidence that the spuds are coming into financial difficulties. Their spending last summer was based on money they will receive at the end of this season (league prize money & tv revenue), which admittedly a lot of smaller clubs used. They desperately need to be in europe again or they will be kissing goodbye to any half decent player they own (& Berbatov's fee will halve itself).
Ashburton Gooner
The two clubs had exactly the same argument this time last year, about pricing and allocations. As with last year, Spurs got what they wanted on both counts and Arsenal were short changed on both counts.
Little Dutch
Which players did Spurs rest Ashburton Gooner? - Chimbonda is wearing out his welcome so its obvious Stalteri should get a game. It has been mentioned that Huddlestone would make a decent CB, so Ramos was undoubtedly having a look at him there as he used to do the same with players at Seville? And with injuries at CB, and Chimbonda's refusal to play there, there was little choice - Its not price fix Amos, there is a charge to attend a game and this has not been arranged with other clubs; if you don't want to pay the reasonable price, don't go - SuperGooner, where is this arrogance coming from? you were very lucky to get a 1-1 draw with us having just beaten us 2-1 in the Prem despite us being injury ravaged and then you got held 1-1 by the Brummies despite this being you so called first team. Ashburton Gooner, the idea that Spurs are in financial difficulties is a moronic statement in the extreme. As a plc, take a look at the financial statements the club has to issue, which show that even with the transfer expenditure, the club is still very much trading in the black; the money for Bent and Bale came from LAST YEARS profits and we have yet to tap into the Puma/Mansion sponsorship money despite it being half way through a £54.5m deal. Talk about clutching at straws !!!!!!!
EnglishSpur
You wouldn't expect anything else from a small time club with a money grabbing scraot like Levy in charge. But as usual, Sp*rs fans will blindly support their team and even accuse us of having no atmousphere in a "half" empty stadium when it was their fault it wasn't full due to afore mentioned scroat! Maybe they are desperate for that money or maybe it is because in their "small time" world a CC semi final is a huge match. Maybe they should concentrate on getting a few more points between them and the relegation zone first!
LondonGooner
Rocky7, I believe my comment about ticket prices was related to those people in the north who may have less disposable income yet still shown commendable loyalty to their teams, despite the repulsive sneering of those undoubtedly wealthier fans in the south who often have the benefit of a 'London weighting' to supplement their salaries. I would expect an inaccurate response from you. With regard to racism, if the editor at Arsenal VitalFootball cannot see how cultural and racial stereotyping of people is offensive and should be dealt with, especially when it is made by those who ought to know better, then I am not wasting my time reporting anything to people who will immediately 'close ranks'. Just because your journalist is well educated and therefore not as 'obvious' in his comments and tries to cover it up as some humourous anecdote, does not make it any less offensive.
EnglishSpur
So what you are saying is that you are quite willing to be a member of a network and regularly view a network that you consider to have racist values? How do you know how much I earn? How do you know that I even work or live in London? With regards Newcastle, funny how the day before the game they had sold 20,000 tickets, yet upon the announcement of Keegan's appointment, 15,000 brilliantly loyal Geordies instantly got well timed pay bonuses and found the resources for a ticket to the game. I guess Keegan really has brought the feelgood factor to the area what with all these bosses dishing out January bonuses with impunity.
Little Dutch
Those football supporters in the south maybe on larger incomes, but in turn the football ticket prices are already inflated. It's a joke that everyone maintains that money is ruining football, yet when you find something to try and wind members of Vital Arsenal up your stance changes instantly. Your weasely and nit-picky persona has become pathetic on epic proportions, you need help. And it's nice to see that your stance on racism is that of "well if nobody else is gunna do anything, then why should I?" A truly commendable attitude. Just imagine what we could have achieved if people like Nelson Mandela & Malcolm X had adpoted your attitude rather than cowaring away in a corner.
Rocky7
Err, Little Dutch, because you have made references in other posts about travelling back south of the Thames having been to WHL; hence the conclusion you live in London or very much the South East. Rocky7 confirmed this when he said you were a gentleman (hard to believe) when you visited him up north in Yorkshire. I think generally most people are not racist on here, but it appears people can only be racist if referring to Arsenal players, and any other nationality is fair game, if they don't play for Arsenal. It's comdemnation of some and congratulation to others for remarkably similar offences. Regarding the Stoke City game, any change of management, particularly the appointment of someone locally well regarded will have a positive effect. I imagine quite a few bank managers were not impressed however, but typical of you to try to pass a sneering comment against loyal fans who have not recently enjoyed success supporting their local club.
EnglishSpur
ES- How, or why for that matter why would I be clutching at straws when it comes to the little spuddies?? Spurs ARE having financial difficulties & thats why ENIC are looking to sell, but you keep denying it all you like, it makes no difference to me at all. As for the Sunderland game, King was rested (& don't come back talking s*** that he was injured because he will be playing on tuesday), Keane was rested until the 74th minute because he was also being saved for the Arsenal game. When a team like spurs is in a relegation battle don't you think they should be playing the best available team or no doubt you would be happy to be relegated as long as you win the CC & knock Arsenal's second string out, because thats the mentality of moronic spud supporters like yourself!!
Ashburton Gooner
Rocky7, I think most Spurs fans have no issue paying full whack to see us play Arsenal. Only when we expand WHL might it become an issue - at the moment there is a waiting list for tickets - it is only Gooners who are squealing and what I find remarkable is this suggestion that Spurs have brow beaten the Arsenal board. It takes two to agree on this pricing and undoubtedly Arsenal know they can charge more and still get a high turnout. As for racism, if you cannot see that it is unacceptable to stereotype nationalities then I have no reason to believe that the website organizer will do anything about it. I am merely reflecting that the next time you commendably ban someone for racist outpourings, make sure you are aware at how two faced you have become - discrimination, including offensive comments, is determined not by the person who made the remark but the person who might have been offended by it
EnglishSpur
I've never visited Paul in Yorkshire, we met at an Arsenal game. You've nicely given away your multiple identities with your admission of reading my match reports from WHL, the last time we played there was September, when Englishspur had never turned up on this forum (I think you were posing as Sir Harry, or Gromit or Kernowboy, or Slim Shady at that point). My point is that Newcastle fans are no more or no less loyal than anybody else, it's all a complete con, the wordl's most loyal fans would have no trouble selling more than 20,000 tickets for a cup replay. Man City have a gretaer claim to that end having regularly achieved over 30,000 in the third tier of English football. The fact is, it's not how near you live to your team, it's how much you put into supporting them. It's six years today since I missed an Arsenal game that took place in Britain (in that time I have missed about five European away games). This encompasses a time when I was at university and stretches back to being at school, my current annual salary is nothing spectacular by any means and I was raised in a single parent family, so while I was not left wanting, I was hardly affluent. The fact is, I bust a gut and severely dent my spending capabilities to follow my team, so any lessons on loyalty aren't really necessary. I sneer at a poorly formed media myth of the brave Geordies when, quite frankly, they are no more spectacular than any other set of fans. Anyone who goes will vouvh the same.
Little Dutch
I never said that LD visited be up North (infact I met him at the Man Utd game at AG last season) and I never said I lived in Yorkshire.
Rocky7
Ouch, in the words of Bono, "and you give yourself away, and you give yourself away....."
Little Dutch
Ashburton Gooner - as all the financial records at THFC have to be published as a PLC listed on the Alternative Investment Market (AIM) your opinion is at odds with financial experts who say Spurs have no debt, have a steady and strong cashflow and the only reason why ENIC might be looking to sell is to capitalise on the strong market brand of THFC at the moment. Anybody with any intelligence realise that ENIC have used THFC as a Private Equity investment - come in, sort out the mess, improve the brand, stabalise the cashflow and implement an exit strategy before further capital investment is required (new stadium) - though as ENIC are now talking about the financing of this stadium they clearly feel the full potential of THFC has yet to be realised. As Levy and Joe Lewis are pretty smart cookies, I'll take their strong financial track record than your bigotted misstatements and false innuendo
EnglishSpur
I actually think Jonathan would disagree with you there. We are not a bunch of little friends who sit around tables drinking wine and laughing evily at other, infact I am contractually bound not to publish anything libelous, copyrighted or racist, if I were to break these rules I would be immdiately removed from editorial duties. Jonathan is trying to run a business here (as well as creating something he is very passionate about). So please, get in touch with him if you feel anything you have read on this site that you feel is racist. But both you and I know you won't do that, because there is nothing remotely racist about what LD wrote, if you could simply stop being a cock for ten minutes, maybe we could all get along.
Rocky7
Little Dutch - if you put in Little Dutch or Tim Stillman into 'Google' or indeed into the search facility hear, it is remarkable how many previous articles you can find - you have heard of Google? Likewise, if you type in the editors name and his alter ego Rocky7, it is pretty easy to go back months and months and months. As I am well aware of the Arsenal fixture at WHL, it is pretty easy to find your article, especially as it appears under any search concern falsely accused Spurs violence. How desperate you are to try to falsely accuse others who actually know how to use a computer. Ouch indeed
EnglishSpur
Like anyone here actually gives a toss what you think EnglishSpud! I personally think that Tottenham's conduct whilst despicable, is to be expected from a club whose priority is clearly financial, as is being demonstrated in this matter. That is the reason for their stinking desperation to get into Europe, and is probably driven by ENIC's desire to see a return on their money. So whatever your mercenary manager says, be assured ES that should a suitable offer for Berbatov be received, he will be off quicker than you can make a snidy comment on VitalArsenal.
Cesky
What's with all the defensiveness, I simply said that Tim didn't come up north to visit and that I never mentioned that I lived in Yorkshire. I also never suggested that I hadn't mentioned that I live in Yorkshire in a bid to trap you. Me thinks you protest too much. But just out of interest, which article did you learn of my Yorkshire roots and why were you searching my name on Google??
Rocky7
And i can't wait until our kids demolish your European dreams at *****e HArt Lane.
Cesky
but the ticket prices are too high for a carling cup match,and it is because those in charge at spurs wanted it that way,therefore the future ie kids have been priced out of attending.also im not going for two reasons, one its not worth the price,and two i cant stand WHL anymore,it doesnt mean im not a loyal supporter,i just have more important things to waste my money on now,like petrol,electricity n gas bills, besides ive been to whl enough times now,that i dont mind someone else going,i know even if they charge £75 a ticket people will be desperate enough to go,the home fans will be really up for it,and who blames them,so they will probably sell out,and im sure there are 3000 or so away fans with money to burn...good luck to them all,im going to save my money for an extortionate final ticket at wembley, if we get there that is.
fran merida
Yeah, why were you googling our names. I'll tell you something, I couldn't give anything approaching two *****s about you enough to google you. How do you know the violence is falsely accused? I know the internet offers you the chance to flaunt your multiple identities, but I very much dount you have physical omnipresence, I reported what I saw, if you don't like it, then quite frankly I couldn't care less. I couldn't care less about any of your opinions, and you obviously find me unpalatable, so why keep coming back here and picking fights with myself and the editor? And I might possibly be able to recall two articles in the last two years where Paul mentioned where he was from. As it happened, I didn't even know until I met the dude and picked up on a quite obvious accent! (Despite my limited grasp on matters outisde the South). Seriously, ask yourslef why you and your merry band of alter egos keep coming here, there must be something missing in your life, which is your business not mine. Don't involve me in your problems, I'm not a psychiatric nurse. I suggest you visit a qualified one because continually picking fights here will only continue to make you very unhappy.
Little Dutch
Besides which, the titles of the match reports I have produced from our games at White Hart Lane, from memory, are, "Daddy-Bayor" and Here's to you Mr. Robinson. I suggest they would have taken more than a casual glance on google to find. Either you're bull*****ting, or your search was that severe that maybe you're obsessing over me a little too much. In either instance, get help. Good luck.
Little Dutch
Rocky7, you are quite right in saying all racist comments should be reported and having reflected on your comments I have taken your advice and reported the abuse as you suggested.
EnglishSpur
Good. Hopefully you'll stop ruining these forums with your pedantic whingeing.
Little Dutch
Maybe you'll stop being a racist
EnglishSpur
Isn't it only natural that a smaller club tend to charge higher prices when a bigger team visits them? And a bigger team charge lower prices when a weaker team visits them? That part I understand, Spurs can put Arsenal CC games in category A or whatever, while Arsenal only naturally put Spurs CC games in category B bcos, as Arsene and PR have repeatedly communicated, the club don't want the fans to feel short-changed when they see the so-called 2nd-string playing in CC, which has always been the case these few years. But what I fail to understand is why Spurs have a say in Arsenal's home game pricing, despite that 45% share of revenue. They can have full say on their home games, we have on ours, especially when this round's 2-legged, right? That part of the system is what I don't understand.
Lou the Gunneress
I mean it's quite natural to share revenues and ticket allocations in those one-off knock-out rounds, like what we're doing in FA Cup now. But CC semi-finals, 2-legged, why can't the clubs have full control on their own home games respectively?
Lou the Gunneress
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. When you look into an abyss, the abyss looks into you." Freidrich Nietzsche.
Little Dutch
I just heard Gus Poyet say the spuds rested 4 players with an eye on the game against Arsenal, and in his words "the biggest game of the season". Well, EnglishStalker that's about it.
G4L
Lads, Don't feed the trolls.
Gunnerman
I believe ES should be totally and completely ignored.
Warri Gooner
''Apparently its a rubbish ground so I'm not sure what all the squealing is about. As said, why should we drop our prices?'' Is he talking about WHL? True supporter there. I brought this up ages ago in an unrelated forum, it's an effin disgrace - they make Edelman look generous.
AFC85Lew
And one more question - do other clubs have the same row, I mean the same row every year? E.g. are Everton and Chelsea both putting CC prices in a bracket lower than the league, so no disagreements there, or what? Does this happen to clubs other than Spurs?
Lou the Gunneress
Good I'm glad ES. If you are serious that you think it's racism then you must stand by your morals. Personally I don't think it is and that you're just trying to stir up a ***** storm, but one way or another, this situation is now going to come to a halt.
Rocky7
It's all about context, when something clearly is a light-hearted joke,it's not offensive. Political correctness is just as bad as tottenham, well, almost. All chelsea fans are rich, hah! That's a stereotype, now you'll have to report me as well. Let's see how you convince the vital admin that I am being racist towards myself.I'm such an evil genious.
k_chelski
All british are tea-lovers, oooh, now I'm surely banned.
k_chelski
Every few months we have a visitor who lingers like a bad smell and follows the pattern - a disagreement, then sneering, then rabid accusations... Englishspur wins the first prize of 2008. Anyway, I tried to discover - not successfully - how Spurs were able to force us to charge Category B at our stadium for the CC. I thought it had to be agreed by both parties - did our board just relent and let the Spuds talk us into it through sheer insistence? Does anyone know for sure?
Andy-bayor
All brazilians are great footballers!Forget banning, I'm about to get sued.
k_chelski
Kevin!! You're the one that spends all day strutting up and down Copacabana beach checking out the talent, aren't you? :-)
Andy-bayor
Yes, I sacrifice myself in the name of the game.
k_chelski
If we play the game of stereotypes, I as a woman has no place here. If Kevin's by the beach and getting sued, it's time for me to go back to the kitchen, stop going to school, stop watching football and definitely shouldn't be nosy about what's said online about Arsenal.
Lou the Gunneress
I shall just explain this to you one last time in the hope you get it. Because there is such disagreement as to what actually constitutes racism and discrimination, the law determines that it is the person who receives that comment who is the final arbitor of whether it is offensive, not the person who has made the comment, however much they want to dress it up as humour or lighthearted. Significant criticism was made of 'offensive' remarks by some posters but the expressions used can also apply elsewhere - for example a 'Black Cow' is a syrupy drink but also non-alcoholic - it looks good but has little end result or bite. The editors and journalists should take extra care as they are supposed to set an example. In this case, there was a number of alternative whiticisms which could have used about the people concerned yet the journalist took a feeble and lazy way out, pandering to the lowest common denominator of cultural and nationalistic stereotyping and considering the diverse ethnicity of the posters here, it is disappointing that that is considered acceptable. I believe the poster K_chelski has been a recipient of some of the worst stereotyping (disappointingly often by Spurs fans) and if that is unacceptable, then so are similar comments made in an article.
EnglishSpur
AFC85Lew, the comments made about WHL are simply repeating what you lot say. Clearly the stadium has been developed piecemeal and a number of the stands are showing their age, so the ground may not be of the same standard as some of the recently constructed stadia, but for a ground of its generation, it is a superb ground, with great viewing angles and an excellent pitch. However it is clear that the stadia can only be developed further if it is demolished and a wholly new structure build. LOU THE GUNNERESS, I believe an Everton supporter here EvertonMike, has said their prices for the SF have doubled so its clearly not just a Spurs-Arsenal issue. Its just a poorly researched article trying to criticise THFC and not providing any explanation that other teams are doing the same.
EnglishSpur
Once more, with feeling. Lads, please don't feed the trolls, they only get uglier.
Gunnerman
There is no rule of law that says if someone is offended the taking of offense is justified or that the offendor is automatically at fault. That's something you have invented yourself. Each case would be treated on it's merits. In any event I think it is a great leap of imagination to say that including the word "lederhosen" in an article would offend all Germans or that all Geordies would lose any sleep at night if referred to as "self congratulatory". Much worse could be found in the serious press over this weekend. Even so you then go on to contradict your own feeble argument because by your logic whether Black Cow is a syrupy drink or not if someone is offended by it then it must be offensive but your attempt to justify or excuse an overtly racist remark betrays the true extent of your interest in such issues. Your constant, silly, pedantic, nit picking in trying to invent crimes would embarrass Mary Whitehouse. It's a path you have trodden many times before in different guises. Frankly it makes you look very stupid indeed and the advice for you to get a life is a very good one.
Amos.
If I say that EnglishSpur is being a nob does that make me racist against people who are nobs?
Moorish
Maybe Amos you should look at the laws on discrimination. Go and have a look at your company's employee handbook - in it, it should say, the offensive nature of a comment under discrimination law is determined by the offense it causes to an individual rather than the lack of alleged intent by the issuer. As I was indicating, people took offence at other comments, irrespective of what was intended, because it was the perception held by other posters that it was a slur. I'm not justifying it - I am saying that any remark no matter how intended which could cause offense and should not be made by the editorial team. Speaking to my German colleague, Jan-Marco, the imagery of lederhosen is embarassing to a lot of Germans as it envokes a stereotype of fat, right wing individuals, stuck in beer halls drinking excessively and singing anti-semitic songs. It is very much associated with the Bavarians and Klinsmann isn't even from that part of Germany. The actual instances of lederhosen wearing is as common as our wearing Morris dancing outfits. Having just had to write a training course on what people can and cannot say in the workplace, the grounds it causes for legal action is amazing. There was a case of a Welsh builder on the Millenium Stadium who won £8,000 because his sense of 'Welshness' was offended as his work colleagues made stereotype comments on his being from Wales. Go figure.
EnglishSpur
WHat a **** you are ES, or am i discriminating against C*nts now too? If it is a matter of opinion it is not discrimiatory, If SOmeone has been to Germany and seen a number of people wearing lederhosen, he is entitled to form an opinion that it is a fashionable item of clothing in Germany, and thereby entitled to express his opinion that many Germans wear lederhosen, as i am entitled to my opinion that you are a **** and a pointless waste of space.
Cesky
It doesn't matter what it says in your employment handbook. The fact that someone is offended doesn't mean that a remark is offensive if it can be shown that someone is being over sensitive or that the taking of offense is unreasonable. That's a matter of individual judgment. If any remark can cause offense as you claim then we are all guilty of it - yourself included. You are over simplifying the matter to justify your pointless argument. As I say take a look at the national press you will find plenty for Geordies to take offense at amongst national columnists this weekend. As for Germans, I can promise you that Germans, with whom I deal with on a daily basis, are no more offended by lederhosen stereotypes, than the average Englishman is bothered by bowler hat and umbrella wielding stereotypes. You are making mountains out of molehills. You suggested that it would be wittier to make reference to 'diving in' in relation to Klinsmann - isn't he entitled to feel offended by that? Notwithstanding that as a piece of witty writing it is more likely to have come from the creative writing department of a christmas cracker factory or even more likely the wastepaper bin of a Carry On film scriptwriter. If that passes as humour then no wonder you struggle with Tim Stillmans pieces. Perhaps you had better stick with the Dandy and Beano (if they still exist) as the level of humour that gets you chuckling.
Amos.
ES, again, it's all about the context. If you say black cow players, as something negative (and keep repeating it time after time after time, in a negative effect) it's racism. If I keep saying you are english in a negativie way, I'm being racist. For instance, I would (jokingly) say "british are such tea-lovers" in front of any (sober) british.Do you think that the racist poster would say "black cow players" in front of a black person?No, because it's offensive,Anything is offensive if you but hatred in it.Don't over use Political correctness.
k_chelski
£8,000???? F*** me! Guys, c'mon call me a sheepshagger, please, please, please. With all that money I might just be able to afford a ticket to go and watch the CC game at WHL. I might even have a few quid spare to go and buy my own sheep too lol.
flv
haha what a nerd this geezer is. Quite amusing on a somber Monday morning back at work, still got tomorrow to look forward to though. Just as well you don't go matches ES - you'd be trying to get most the ground chucked out for their 'yid' chants.
AFC85Lew
Wow examples of petulent spurs fans and a lesson in British discrimination laws, VitalArsenal works on so many levels! LOL Either way we have worked out that Tomorrow is Spurs cupfinal and for us it means a lot less. They are a bunch of money grabing you know whats wehere as we would like our fans to pay "reserve" prices to watch our reserves, but the Spuddies don't want any of that........Are you all surprised in anyway???
LondonGooner
For the unenlightened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Gunnerman
I can only supplant what nikolaijns said this weekend, racism and cultural intolerance is such a huge issue and a very serious one in our society. ES, with your every post on this forum, you trample all over it in a quite disturbing act of one upmanship. Even going so far as to try and defend the blatant racism of a poster here while betraying any sense of irony with your attacks on me. To clarify, Newcastle fans have a song in which they explicitly use the lyrics, "we are the world's most loyal supporters," pretty self congratulatory within the context I speak. The lederhosen reference was quite obviously intentionally stereotypical to fit into the satirical nature of the piece. I lived with a German girl for two years, she read this article and did not even pick up on the reference, let alone become enraged with your mock outrage. It is quite clear that you have no sense of irony, in which case football is definitely not the sport for you and arenas in which football fans gather (be it stadia or virtual forums) should be avoided at all costs. Good luck in your federal case against Vital Spurs members YidEdy, Dr. Yid, Scott da Yid, YiddoNick etc. I would chance you haven't brought that up with the owner of the network, because you and I both know that cultural stereotyping and racism is not your primary concern.
Little Dutch
I have not defended the racism of any poster. I am simply stating that the comments made by you are equally as offensive, Little Dutch. You are sufficiently arrogant to continue to try to defend your cultural and racist intollerance made in that statement - you showed the information to one German - I understand your comments have been shared with a dozen of my work colleagues ... most think it was a stupid comparison to draw showing an ignornance of Germany and its culture, some think you are anti-German. Regarding the references made by certain Spurs fans, a discussion held was that if a Spurs fan describes himself in such a manner then it is fine to refer to him as such - however if a Spurs fan does not use such terms to describe themselves, then any such comments are anti-semitic. Likewise, Spurs fans using their normal chants (which originally started as a response to racist chanting directed against them) is regarded as traditional, whilst chanting by non-Spurs fans using these expressions is anti-semitic and racist. I have not raised that with Jonathan as legally it is not an issue, though comments by nonSpurs fans referring to 'Yids' should be referred as they are clearly designed to be abusive.
EnglishSpur
What about the legions of Spurs fans who aren't Jewish? Why is it alright for a football club to adopt the modiker of an ancient religion that has dealt with acute persecution throughout history? What about Jewish Arsenal fans who use that expression? By your definition, they are racist. I understand the origins of Spurs using that word, it's similar to Arsenal fans chanting, "you need more foreigners." Since you are so familiar with my work, you will be quite aware that I have adopted it with gusto, quite an achievement for somebody as culturally intolerant as I am. No matter how much you try and paint it as such, you and I both know that is not your point of contention here (I very much doubt you've ever raised an objection to the littany of posters on Vital Spurs who refer to our stadium as "the Immigrants stadium" or call our team Francenal). I have a recording at home of a documentary on Mark Chapman, the man who killed John Lennon. In the biopic it shows that Chapman was an educated and mild mannered man, altogether not such a bad egg. In fact, he spent the happiest years of his life working with mentally and physically handicapped children. The problem for Chapman was that people kept capitalising on his yearning for affection and continued to betray him. Over time he grew more embittered, until one day he saw a picture of John Lennon in a magazine and it enraged him for some reason. He began to transfix all of his bitterness and hatred and project it onto Lennon, a man who had the fame and acceptance that Chapman craved. The paradigms between this story and your transfixion with me are quite poignant and really quite disturbing.
Little Dutch
I am certainly not fixated with you. I do think however that you are remarkably arrogant and therefore should be criticised for the comments that you so easily try to criticise others for. If any fan came on here making stereotypes about your French or Spanish players, you'd be the first to criticise them, yet as a journalist you write an article which essentially says 'hey its ok for me to stereotype but we'll give you hell if you do so' ... and use the lame excuse that it was humourous and ironic to try to justify it. Either don't be so abusive as a journalist, or stop criticising posters from other teams who simply follow where you lead.
EnglishSpur
After all if someone made a tasteless remark about Toure or Adebayor, tried to describe it as humour or irony and then found an archived picture of them in national costume or similar, then they would be rightfully condemned or criticised and in all probability called a racist. Exactly what is the difference in making similar comments about Klinsmann? All you do is encourage others to walk dangerously close to the line.
EnglishSpur
Again, I ask you one final time, and bear in mind that this is the very last communication I will ever have with you, because I have no desire to acquiesce to your attempt to turn this site into a circus. If you are not fixated with me, ask yourself why you keep coming here and picking fights with somebody you clearly can't stand, why you keep seeking me out and hijacking these threads. Don't answer it here, don't even post anything. Just go away and think about why that is. Try and dress up your intentions all you like, but its pretty transparent that your pathetic claims have no validity whatsoever, for reasons that have been covered dozens of times. This is a personal vendetta (and one I am beginning to consider as harassment in truth), you have to ask yourself why it is you harbour this grudge and why you are so unabashed at flaunting it so publicly. Now go away, and let the owner of the site do what he will.
Little Dutch
Good - posters can decide whether it is any more acceptable to abuse and stereotype Klinsmann and find archived pictures in percieved national costume, than it would be to abuse Toure and Adebayour, justify it as a humorous remark and then try to find pictures of them in national costume to try to defend the comments. And why you? As clearly one of the more intelligent and articulate of posters and journalists it is fairly nauseating that you act in a similar manner to others who you would dare criticise, and seem to do it with impunity ... all you seem to come up with is the lame remark that apparently I have posted under another name previously and so I feel no sympathy at all when you and others are subsequently taken to ask. You reap what you sow.
EnglishSpur
There is some suggestion that Gallas will play tomorrow due to defensive shortages. Personally, I don't think this is right at all, the Carling Cup has only ever been about rearing young talent for us and I cannot see the point of deviating from this policy. The long term ramifications of defeat or victory for the youngsters will only serve them well in the future, we owe the development of many of our current squad members to this competition and I think that far outstrips the short term gratification of getting to a final with the first team. Besides, the younger players have shown before that they are well capable of beating Premiership sides away from home, if they don't on this occasion, it won't be a huge deal. They have had another great tournament and will learn a lot from this run. If we lost Gallas to injury tomorrow night, it would seriously hurt our title prospects and I don't think it's worth the risk.
Little Dutch
ES - Seen as you have had the good sense to report what you blatently feel is racism, then there is no reason for you to keep returning to these threads. The powers that be will decide who is right and who is wrong. You a clearly an intelligent and articulte fellow, so instead of acting like a four year old, why not walk away? You've made your point (no matter how much I disagree with it) and reported it to the appropriate authorities (whom ever that may be) so there's no reason to keep commenting, right? If you return then it will be all the more obvious that you sole purpose of being here it to wind people up and in turn that willonly expose you as the wind up merchant I believe you to be.
Rocky7
Skipping some of the tedious comments above, I'd just like to come over and tell you guys: GALLAS WILL PLAY!
Lou the Gunneress
LD, I agree CC is set aside for youth from an Arsenal perspective. But the reason why AW's doing this is that we're losing Senderos as he had a bad knock in his nose at Fulham. So we have no choice but to play Gallas and a makeshift CB - Hoyte or Gilberto I guess. So I'm with you, we didn't play the experienced players last year against Chelsea at the final and I don't see any reason why we should in a semi against Spurs. But we're in a situation where 3 CB's are out. So although I don't think it's 'ideal', we might be stronger in defence, though that's not exactly what I wanted, despite the improved strength.
Lou the Gunneress
I'd play Hoyte and Gilberto centre half and put Gilbert in at right back. Gallas must not be risked for a game like this, we have more important ones coming up.
Little Dutch
Don't worry, Billy will be careful not to let some idiots kick him. And he'll be taking us to Wembley.
Lou the Gunneress
I agree with you regarding the team selection LD, win or lose it's all about our young talent. My main concern is Gilberto. I just hope that last seasons Gilberto turns up for this game, whether that's in central midfield or central defence. His experience could be the difference between winning and losing, providing he shows up that is. Seeing as Keegan mania is sweeping the UK at the mo, I'd love it, I'd just love it if Theo could score the winning goal against them. I hate to say it, but my head tells me 2-1 to Spurs, hope I'm wrong though.
flv
I am not sure how you reach the conclusion that there is much intelligence involved in ES posts Rocky. An intelligent person would have worked out that implying that Klinsmann is a habitual cheat with a 'diving' reference is probably more abusive and stereotypical than some oblique reference to German national costume. As for being articulate doesn't there have to be some discernible point in order for it to be anything more than pontification?
Amos.
I gotta agree with LD, Gallas is far too important to be risked in the CC. I'd take a loss right now for a team of fully fit players.
Rocky7
You guys are scaring me!
Lou the Gunneress
I was just trying to get him to ***** off Amos....lol. He seemed to want his ego massaging, I thought taking one for the team might get the desired reacti!on!!
Rocky7
Yeah Rocky, I was scratching my head too when I saw the word 'intelligent'...
Lou the Gunneress
You're a gentleman Rocky. I bet you are kind to children and small animals as well.
Amos.
Amos, Klinsmann poked fun at himself with his own diving celebration. It is also not a stereotype on someone's nationality or ethnicity but on someone's behaviour - a behaviour which can be changed unlike the colour of someones skin or the place where they were born. If you cannot understand the difference between that, then you really are not that bright. It is curious that no-one has said it would be equally acceptable to make stereotyped comments about the nationality or national dress of Toure or Adebayor - possibly because it wouldn't be?
EnglishSpur
Children? yes. Small animals? I prefer them on a spike with a nice chianti. Oh crap, that's the RSPCA who'll be the next to pay me a visit!!!
Rocky7
Yep - that's pontification all right. National costumes are by definition stereotypical - they wouldn't be national costumes if they weren't.
Amos.
Oh christ, he's back. Haven't you got a username to be changing?
Rocky7
Perhaps your strategy was best after all Rocky. It's a bit like dogs that bark for no reason. They don't know why they are barking they just like the noise they make but they'll quieten down if you tickle their tummies. In this case though the roasted on a spike has more appeal for me.
Amos.
ES, I'm not digging or whatever, just very curious - did it ever cross your mind that you might just be over-reacting on one comment about a traditional costume a little bit (by posting dozens of comments reiterating your point, even if and assuming it's a valid one)?
Lou the Gunneress
A stereotype is a generalisation based on minimal or limited knowledge about a group to which the person doing the stereotyping does not belong. It has nothing to do with national costume, but the stereotype would be that all Africans dress as hunter gatherers, all Germans wear lederhosen, all Scots wear kilts, all Australians are descended from those who were transported etc etc etc. Only the spectacularly stupid and ignorant pander to such stereotyping. Nice response Rocky7 as an alternative to providing an intelligent response
EnglishSpur
Not that I think the points ES made were valid - not as patient as LD and others, I stopped reading them after a few posts. Regardless of the validity of those points made, I mean spending hours posting on another club's site, trying to argue something as tedious as some mention of a costume when it's just meant to be light-hearted and definitely not offensive, would anyone waste their time like that? That's what I don't get.
Lou the Gunneress
It was a valid queston ES, usually after falsely accusing someone of something you slope off and change your username. I have become so bored with your pathetic, girly whining that I can't be bothered trying to reason with you anymore as you clearly aren't interested in anything other causing trouble. And you have been like that for a good long while now.
Rocky7
ES, ignorant maybe, stupid maybe, not funny maybe (to you), fine. If you don't like it, of course you can say and all it takes is you saying it once. It's definitely not meant to be offensive or prejudiced or against any race. Does that really warrant tons and tons of attacks like calling it 'racist' repeatedly? That's the thing we're talking about. Anyway, unlike some, I have something better to do - time to watch Kolo and Eboue on TV now. Guys you should do the same, rather than wasting your time on tedious stuff in such a short life!
Lou the Gunneress
Lou the Gunneress - despite there being several articulate contributors all of whom were personally abusive to another poster in a previous article and have tried to be personally abusive to me here, no-one has provided a suitable answer. YTL/Cannavaro was rightfully criticised if he made a racist comment, yet the Editorial team have made remarks here about a white German guy that if similar remarks were made about Black African players, everyone would be up in arms about. I'm just pointing out 1) how two faced that behaviour is, people should not be abused because of where they come from ... 2) the editorial team should be setting a standard and example. Are we saying that this sort of double standards are acceptable?
EnglishSpur
Yep - that's pontification again. So a German, or a Scot or any other nationality cannot have a stereotypical view of their own nationality? Your pseudo-intellect is easy to see for the nonsense that it is. It was easy to see in all your previous incarnations but hard to understand why you are so intent in demonstrating your deep physchological flaws here. Your pattern of behaviour is the same everytime. Eventually we will reach the stage where, like one of those Looney Tune cartoon characters, you'll disappear over the hill with your arse on fire. But this time have a little compassion for us and keep your new user name away from here.
Amos.
oh God, what is with you guys? this miser is getting way too much attention here, and that is all he wants. just ignore him and his posts like he doesent exist. i've been down the road with way too many times when he was posing as sir harry, and believe me folks, he's not worth a single second of ur time..
luckys_10
man you are an annoying, bitter, twisted, sick, boring, pathetic stalker who is on a solitary mission or personal vendetta to prove that LD is a racist. Not only you're a multiple poster, but also spineless CU.n.t. (as you still haven't reported LD), who just won't get over his ego and mind his own business. I've been living in Germany for 2 years, and 90% of them have NO TASTE in clothes, shoes, accessories, very very poor sense of humour (even Austrians have a better one) but they are workaholics, very professional, and always on time. Now sue me.
G4L
Berbatov said it's their 'match of the year' heeheee: http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=555465
Lou the Gunneress
blimey.....its started early over here hasn't it?? LOL We've got over 24hours to go and its like WW3. Anyway, just popped my head over the parapet to say, its our seats your gonna be sitting on and we can fleece ya for whatever we want.......so there!
Scott Spur
Not desputing that SS, it's when your board dictates the prices of tickets at our gaff that we take the hump. I understand that you wanna go on the defensive when it comes to us "goons" having a pop at your club, but surely you'd prefer it if both clubs had slashed their prices for this lesser competition?!?
Rocky7
Duh! Scott that's totally beside the point - we're talking about BOTH legs of the semi-final tie, i.e. Spurs had a say in Arsenal's home game as well. Get it now? Trying?
Lou the Gunneress
Rocky you beat me to that. If we do the 'over-generalisation' thing again, someone would calling "Spurs fans are dumb" but I'm NOT going there. (Chill ES, just a JOKE!)
Lou the Gunneress
G4L .. nice statement - interesting that unlike the hard working Germans you are too lazy to be bothered to read for if you weren't so lazy you would scroll up and read that I had taken Rocky7's advice and report the article to Vitalfootball ... which bit of that simple statement did you have difficulty in understanding? ... Amos, I wasn't aware Little Dutch was German .. if he is of course German then I apologise - if he is not then he is stooping to the levels of those who would make derogatory comments about African or South American players based on their culture or race.
EnglishSpur
Calm it down lads. Arsenal are on the top of the league smoking cannabis and sipping champagne. But you cannot forget that Spurs have an entirely English squad and Arsenal have Foreigners and pedos in theirs.
Goofle
And lads, lets not get all "PC" and moan about a bit of racism. Its just a forum for God sake!
Goofle
Rocky, yes..........
Scott Spur
Excuusmee Lou, beside the point or not its how it is and i also reserve the right to throw my dummy out of the pram tomorrow if we dont win....;)
Scott Spur
look dont mention the war....i mentioned it once but i think i got away with it........
fran merida
SS we definitely also respect you in reserving the right to publish a DVD to commemorate the odd win over the Arsenal if you do win ;) wink back
Lou the Gunneress
Troll hungry, troll eats well, mmm... must bait gooners further for nourishment....Seriously ladies and gents, just drop it, I'm beggining to take a dislike to reading the comments that would normally contain intelligent opinion about the article at hand. Please for the love of God stop feeding the troll. Kindest regards, an irritated vital member.
Gunnerman
 

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