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Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr. Blatter?

I really, really do not have the energy or the inclination to house another debate on Arsenal`s foreign contingent blah, blah, blah etc, so if you`re thinking of posting something about that on this article, please do not bother. It`s a tired; boring argument that has played out on here so many times that it is not funny or even remotely interesting. What I want to do is to identify the numerous and gaping flaws in Septic Bladder`s latest harebrained scheme, the 6+5 rule. Whether you are a patriot who is interested in the national team or an apathetic cynic like myself; the points contained here are not mutually exclusive to either opinion. Bladder is globally renowned as a self interested moron. But his latest proposition, which was overwhelmingly voted for by his FIFA cronies in Sydney last evening, is so self defeating and porous that I despair that people of this ridiculous level of sub par intelligence are elevated to these positions. Largely, I consider politicians to be calculated, self serving liars, but usually (and there are exceptions) to climb as high as they do, they have to have a degree of intelligence- even if they do apply it with the moral void of an insect. However, whilst Bladder`s idea is indeed self serving and motivated by duplicity usually reserved for vicious dictators, what I cannot fathom is quite how STUPID it is. It lacks any intelligence or foresight whatsoever, has more holes than a rusty colander. While most would concur that the decision to go into Iraq was appalling bad judgement, those people miss the point. The respective parties in charge of that decision had their motives, despite all of the negative press it has attracted; they are largely achieving that motive. (Deary me sir, we`re looking for weapons but all we keep finding is this bloody oil!) Bladder`s motives, from what I can gather, are self defeating.

George Orwell once wrote that 'political language is designed to make lies sound true; murder sound respectful and give an appearance of solidarity to pure wind.` But Bladder doesn`t even attempt to cover his motives. He contends that having an all English final in this year`s Champions League is damaging. Strangely, he didn`t find 2003s all Italian Final a problem, nor 2001s all Spanish final. Well, simple suggestion Sepp, let`s go back to having one team per country competing Europe`s premier competition. Make the Champions League for Champions again. Problem solved. Of course, having the likes of Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal and Juventus excluded from next year`s competition would harm your profit margins, but hey, you`ve got the interests of football at your heart here haven`t you? Oh I see, its international football that also concerns you so deeply. (Another of your money spinning cash cows to be milked). Maybe if you didn`t insist on packing out the international calendar with so many useless (but money spinning) friendlies, players would actually get their desire for representing their country back and actually play like they give a toss. If you could unwrap your sweaty palms from around the udders for a second, you might see a generation of footballers who retire early from international football, under perform in tournaments due to burn out.

Still I don`t see how the 6+5 ruling will benefit international teams. Sure, more homegrown players will get a chance, but if they`re not good enough to break into their teams without this institutionally prejudice golden handshake, aren`t we just packing teams with average or below par players at the expense of quality? Brilliant, international managers will have more crap players to choose from. How does this enhance the quality of your product Mr. Bladder? What it does do is denigrate the quality of domestic competition greatly, to the point that people will not continue to line your pockets by paying extortionate sums to watch mediocre football. This 'throw shit at a wall and see how much sticks` policy simply cannot work. It will not even the playing field with regards to domestic competition either, if anything it will widen the gap. If this ruling goes through, then Chelsea, ourselves, United and Arsenal will simply buy up the Youngs, Agbonlohors and Richards` of this world and stockpile them. With the price of indigenous players massively inflated, these clubs will not be able to afford even the most average replacements. So the quality of the overall league goes down and the megabucks "big four" widen the chasm.

Let me posit a scenario for you. Let us say this ruling was in in 2003. Arsene Wenger has to tell Cesc Fabregas, "you`re an excellent player, but I cannot play you. So Steve Sidwell will play and I will sell you back to Barcelona." Right, so Sidwell gets handed a place in the team, he enjoys an unmerited run and gets picked for England. Excellent. England play Spain, where Steve Sidwell comes up against Cesc Fabregas in the centre of midfield. Now, at some point, for the national side to prosper, Steve Sidwell has to outshine Fabregas and England have to overcome their foreign counterparts. How does the 6+5 rule help? Eventually, Fabregas` superior ability will supersede Sidwell`s and the whole exercise will have been a waste of time. By handing them guaranteed places in the starting line up, without the player having to work remotely hard or compete, where is the incentive for Sidwell to improve and make strides as a player. If I knew that, upon leaving school, I would be guaranteed a cushy job irregardless of my qualifications or ability, I would not bother going to get a degree or even try and build up my CV.

Football is the one of the only truly Capitalist institutions that exists, insofar as I understand the word 'Capitalism.` Sport is not politics. A person`s success in football is based entirely on ability and work ethic. Creed, colour, nationality and even social class (one doesn`t have to be affluent to obtain a round ball and a couple of makeshift goalposts) do not inform somebody`s ability to be a successful and prosperous footballer. Best man succeeds, best team wins. Chelsea and United got to this year`s Champions` League final because they knocked out every other team that stood in their way. Therefore, they deserved to be there. Sport is based on meritocracy is it not? Once you tamper with it and take merit and ability out of the equation, it ceases to be sport; it becomes a quasi political and quite racist institution. At this point, many of us might wish to comfort themselves with the fact that the proposal violates EU legislation law in that it restricts freedom of trade. Don`t be so sure. Boxing is one sport that already essentially contravenes EU Law. Two men knocking seven shades of the shite out of one another should lead to assault, ABH and GBH charges. But the EU decrees that Boxing is a sport and, as such, its governing body is responsible for its rules. Chinese restaurants are another example of workplaces that are allowed to ethnically moderate their staff to the level they wish, as it contributes to the experience of the clientele. Bladder may argue that it is in the interests of national teams that this ruling goes ahead and could form a similar argument. If this rule is allowed to go through, for it to be thrown out again, a player would have to 'do a George Eastham` and challenge it. Eastham had to take two years out of his career to fight a civil court case to get the 'transfer and retain` system outlawed in this country. Now, this is not 1960s Britain, this is twenty first Century European Court, for a player to fight this effectively, he would have to be willing to sacrifice a good eight to ten years of his career whilst the EUs painfully slow legislative process wheels along. (If you are not familiar with 1960s Arsenal striker George Eastham`s case, think George Michael and Sony). Which player is principled enough to do that?

This is a poorly thought out and cretinous idea and the brainchild of a self interested, money obsessed moron and just as quickly jumped on by his Pavlovian band of idiots. Not only is the idea damaging to the quality of the game and the premise of sport as a whole, but it`s morally reprehensible that such Aryan thinking is seriously being considered. This will likely turn millions away from the game, spectators and coaches alike (do you see Wenger staying involved in a game governed by these principles?) Top coaches will be slain and quality players will file out of the top leagues (particularly our league) one by one like soldiers falling dead on a blood soaked field. There is a line in a song called 'Mathematics` by Mos Def that says, "killing fields need blood to graze the cash cow/ it`s a numbers game but shit don`t add up somehow." Too right.LD.

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The Journalist

Writer: Tim Stillman Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Friday May 30 2008

Time: 3:06PM

Your Comments

Bravo L.D! Excellent title!
The first few lines of your last paragraph are spot on!
No one can argue that this move is good LD, but I will disagree on one thing. Blatter will get exactly what he wants if this goes through, weakened English clubs competing in the CL. So, I dont see how this differs from the Iraq scenario you brought up in this article. Another indication is Blatters comments on clubs with high debts competing in the CL (surprise surprise, the 2 ENGLISH finalists in the CL were the only clubs on the radar). Blatters motives are very clear. There isnt a problem with 2 Italian finalists, but only a problem when there are 2 English finalists.
Worth perhaps making the observation that while Boxing is free to make its own rules, like any other sporting body, in general those rules still may not breach national and international laws. I am not sure that there is any rule in boxing that seeks to discriminate on the grounds of nationality that is any different than football does already in respect of its national teams.
There are other points too, men aren't allowed to compete in womens' football, when consensus is reached by Governing bodies, trade restriction rules can be circumnavigated. Also, FIFA aren't restricting the amount of foreign players a club can employ as such, only those that can be on the field at any one time. So again, they're not restricting freedom of movement. We'd still be free to have 100 foreign players on our books if we wanted.
Little Dutch
Coming from a team with an average of 0.3 BRITISH players per game
LD your spot on again. How can such an idiot like Blatter even be taken seriously in the modern game?? beats me
I don't want to play the Little England card, but I am totally convinced that Blatter and his gimps want to weaken and destroy the Premier League, they know that a league as powerful as the PL could only ever happen in England because the UK by chance or by design has the right social climate, economic stability and spirit of enterprise to create such a powerful league. The PL is as close to what a country like America would produce, and I don't mean that as an insult. Be under no illusion, it is England versus Europe in the eyes of Blatter, even though the PL has become powerful thanks to non English managers. Blatter wants to destroy English football, why didn't he (or an equivalent moron) have the same hang ups and similar concerns about Serie A in the 90's? Perhaps for the same reason that if an English team was found guilty of match fixing you can be sure they wouldn't be playing in the Champions league final with their owner sat next to the UEFA president celebrating. I absolutely despise Blatter and his like minded gimps who have no interest in football or the spirit of fair competition. The world loves the EPL and yet the suits of European football want to destroy it, that says it all.
Professor Calculus
Lou the Gunneress
LD, surely it cant be as simple as that ? Hypothetically, its like saying you can sign as many African players as you want, but you cannot field more than one at a time. Thats still discrimination, and I'm quite certain, still illegal under current EU laws.
Also, why would clubs employ foreign footballers if they cannot field them ? They arent running a charity, and hence would discriminate in favour of English players when signing them, which is still against the law.
I think alot of the arsenal fans are so against the idea because they are worried, i myself am an arsenal fan, I think everyone is looking at this matter for to negativly, England as a whole is a great sporting country as a whole and i think the new rules shoudl they be brought in would benafit the national game and the league games, would make the managers job alot harder with alot more players to choose from and gives young english footballers to play top flight football and break into the big teams, maybe arsene would concentrate on the young english talent alot more benefitting the english national team, i dont understand all this negativity! arsene is a great great manager and would sort this out for us ... he would bring throught tremendous english talent as he does from abroad ... i sayscrew Mr Blatter ... bring the rule throught ... it wont stop us from winning major trophies ... it will b sorted and we will be just as good as ever ...
wow LD, busy afternoon for you I see ! I am not sure about the whole thing myself, I want to see the best players at Arsenal, but I remember back to when we did have the foreigner rule and in 1990 england go to the semi final of the world cup, some may say the squad then was probably better because there was more to chose from and the competition was fierce, the squad for england today is possibly more technically gifted, but with their huge salaries and inflated poster boy images, their desire to do well for country is non existent. THEN AGAIN, spain, italy, holland and germany all have the same problems within their league with many teams fielding more than 6 foreigners per game, in fact Chelsea and United have more english talent in comparision to their european counterparts. problem is this, if wenger starts signing english talent or potential, yet he has a strong 11, when do they play ? he can't farm them out on loan to another country cos they already have their quota, so they have to go to the same league, which then doesn't give them enough experience of european football. ALSO in the champions league format currently, for the squad of 25, you must have so many home grown players , but if Cesc joined us hen he was 15, and 5 yrs later was picked then he is considered home grown, so I wonder if this ruling will be excepted, also will they have a ruling where EU players will be considered differently to players outside of the EU, currently the rules of Spain and Italy.
First, BRILLIANT, as usual, LD. Second, I have to agree with prits---the proposal still amounts to blatant employment discrimination based on nationality. The other examples you cited of flouting EU law don't quite match the clear, blatant violation of a basic civil right protected by EU law--employment regardless of one's race or nationality. I can't see how FIFA can get away with it. Also, it's not just a player who could sue. Couldn't employers in this case sue as well? FIFA are telling employers like Arsenal that they must put in place two different employment policies for players based entirely on their nationality.
The EU commission has said quite clearly the proposals as they stand are discriminatory and illegal. There are derogations on the basis of the 'specificity' of sport on social, health and environmental grounds that allow gender discrimination as in womens football and national teams. But you wouldn't be able to discriminate in either case on the basis of nationality. All of these factors and present derogations have been considered at length by the EU and they have ruled against FIFA's proposals. Of course laws can change but this proposal in it's present form doesn't have a prayer.
Rereading it that last post was misleading in part because national sporting teams or individuals are not considered as employment if representing national bodies in international competition.
brilliant LD, absolutely brilliant. yu have to send this to fifa or uefa or even the fa. find a way, mail it to them, or send it by post, or mail it to sky whatever. i want the entire world to read this..
So, anyone fancy a debate on Arsenal`s foreign contingent... :o)
The Fear
With UEFA already having certain rules about homegrown players.. why does Blatter need to stick his nose further into this issue? It's irritating and it's a fact that he can't implement these regulations. Full stop.
I'm not against Blatter because I'm an Arsenal fan, I'm against Blatter because I'm a football fan, and sport is about the best competing against the best, the beauty of sport is that it surpasses social and economic handicaps, a kid from a poverty stricken background could in theory become a world star purely based on his ability, if we start bringing social politics in to sport then just like every other area of life where politics rule, ability will have little to do with a persons position and success. Because politics are restricted to the fringe of sport, the premise of any sport remains beautifully simple and idealistic - the best will make it to the top, Blatter wants to intervene with Politics and cherry pick which players should play where, if this happens then football is no longer a competition based on ability, it becomes a chess game for the rich and a political showcase for some fat ****s ideals. Remember people, be very very wary of anyone who thinks they know what's best for you, they are always dangerous ****s who are a step away from initiating a totalitarian set up.
Professor Calculus
6 + 5 = l'arse in shizer.
Don't the transfer system and the current contract system where a player cannot give 3 months notice and demand their registration to change clubs also contravene Employment law, as a massive restriction of trade? What other job demands a transfer fee for an employee to change employers? You cannot pick and choose which laws you like or don't. For those forecasting the end of the world, Italy instigated a no foreign player rule in the 1970s but when this was slightly relaxed in the 1980s for a limited number of the very best foreign players, this led to the great Juventus and Milan teams as well as very good Roma, Inter and Sampdoria sides. And at the same time Italy won the 1982 World Cup. The world didn't end.
kernowboy71, you cannot compare England with Italy for one simple reason. The Italians produce players with genuine skill on the ball. Their top clubs, while full of non-Italian players, can still rely on a fair amount of solid, talented, skillful Italians. (Oh, and Inter won the scudetto with only 2 Italian starters). Why is it that it is only England among all of the top European leagues where the top clubs rely so heavily on foreign players, more than other countries? It's because alone among Europe's top leagues, England's top clubs do not have a deep pool of local talent to choose from--talent that is quality, cheap, or at least moderately priced. Alone among Europe's top leagues, England's native players are the least skilled and the most expensive. As long as that situation continues, the PL's top clubs will continue to rely more on foreign talent. It's not as if Chelsea and MU have a bunch of great English talent cominig up in the ranks, nor are they buying up loads of English/British players from other clubs. Their English/British players are getting older, the younger ones are a minority. The English/British contingent of players at MU, Chelsea and Liverpool are all dwindling. In a few years they'll look just like Arsenal.
I dont know if its just that he dislikes England. He has always been anti italy. He said it was a tragedy to award them the world cup, and he left before the ceremony not handing them the title.
COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC: I have just watched this video from Brazilian TV. I didn't catch it when it aired, tho I subscribe to Globo TV: Remember when there were some reports in the Croatian press about Eduardo's comments re Taylor's so-called apology? Since I don't know the language I had no idea if these reports were true. However, with this video I can now finally listen to Eduardo speak in his (and my) native language--Portuguese--and understand for myself what he says, totally unfiltered by the English press. What he says is very, very clear, there is not doubt at all in my mind now. Asked by the reporter how to understand "why so much violence" from his opponent who caused his terrible injury, Eduardo says that Taylor could've been more human toward him and apologized to him personally. Eduardo says that Taylor and his club, Birmingham, told all the press in England that he (Taylor) personally apologized to Eduardo and that Eduardo had forgiven him. Eduardo CLEARLY STATES THAT THIS IS A LIE. That none of that happened at all. He says this with great frustration and sadness.
I watched that to Jaelle. But appart from what he said, it was really nice to see him kick a ball and do certain exercises
Hey Jaelle nice to see you here - good news re Eduardo and video of him walking well and doing exercises! Can you tell us roughly what they say in those interviews with Edu and the doctor or someone there?
Lou the Gunneress
Oops sorry, I was too excited and posted it again when I saw your name around Jaelle without reading your post lol
Lou the Gunneress
Well Jaelle, if the 6+5 rule is illegal under EU law, then the transfer system is illegal as is the current contract system and they should both be declared illegal. Fabregas for example, should be allowed to give 3 months notice, be handed his player registration and leave for free, irrespective of whatever contract he has signed. If I were to sign a 2 year fixed term contract I would be allowed to leave for free, as long as I gave the maximum 3 months notice that I am obliged to under the law. Every footballer should be allowed to do this as apparently they are no different than any other worker.
Regarding that Taylor apology thing, I wonder if Edu suffered from a very slight memory loss after the surgery...? If none of that happened, Taylor wouldn't have come up with a detailed story of how he went to the hospital when Edu's resting and then he went back again and they talked and stuff, knowing that he'll for sure get found out if he told a lie there. If Taylor indeed didn't go and said multiple times that he did, to lie about these things is nothing short of moronic.
Lou the Gunneress
Hi Lou. :-) To add to what I already translated re Taylor, he says "I think he could've been a better person, more human at that moment, and apologize to me in person." Eduardo also talks about his eagerness to return to Arsenal much earlier than he expected. He says he's concentrated only on working hard to return to football, how he turned down the Croatian manager's invitation to accompany the team at the Euros because he couldn't bear to watch everyone training while he couldn't join them. He talks about Croatia's potential at the Euros, and the reporter adds that he now thinks of the world cup with the national team.
taylor lied ? omg, the shame !!!! someone mail that to birmingham and tell em its a good job they went down, cos we don't need liars and players like that in the best league in the world, every player wants to play here which is why blatter is saying and doing what he has done, terrible english i know, but when you type as fast as i am after a glass of wine, grammer goes out the window !
kernowboy71, I can't take your point seriously at all. On the one hand you have basic, universal human and civil rights which include the right to access to education, employment and housing regardless of one's race, gender, ethnicity/nationality or religion. On the other you have the issue of employment contracts and hiring practices which vary from company to company, business to business, profession to profession. It is very common for some companies to impose certain limits or restrictions on employment contracts. EU law recognizes that different professions or businesses have requirements specific to their industry. The restrictions you speak of are specific to sport and so far the EU has never spoken against them as a violation of any kind of basic human or civil right. The EU has, however, very clearly declared the illegality of any proposal that discriminates based on nationality. I'm sorry you can't see that distinction.
You may be confusing statutory employment law with service contracts kernowboy. If you contract to provide a service under terms freely agreed you can be held to fulfil that contract. The best example of someone coming unstuck with such an agreement was George Michaels failed attempt to cancel his contract with Sony some years back. In any case I think that 3 months is only the maximum period of notice an employee is entitled to in the absence of any specific agreement. Most company exucutives will have a minimum period of 6 months (and 12 months isn't at all uncommon) written into executive contracts.
Amos, those contracts have actually been deemed illegal. In fact, you cannot impose more than 3months as it is deemed a restraint of trade. The George Michael case was problematic as he held different contracts with different recording companies in different geographical areas. And at Sony, he was asked to produce a certain number of albums - a footballer is not asked to perform a certain number of games. An executive may have a 6 or 12 month notice period - its not legally enfoceable. Michael received money up front for a product he refused to delver, its not the same.
the Bosman and Webster rulings have already indicated that the EU is looking at the transfer/contract situation. It is only a matter of time before they go all the way. And surely signing young 15-17 year olds to comply with UEFAs 4+4 suggestion which the EU has approved has its own 'problems'. Interesting in the UK, non-EU footballers will face an English test irrespective of how many international caps they have to get a work permit, so clearly it is all being looked at.
I don't want to get bogged down or diverted by the minuatie of employment law or fixed term service contracts (I have gone down that path with similarly named spuds before) but they aren't illegal - they are used in the armed forces for example. Believe me I can categorically assure you that executive contracts are indeed enforceable in a court of law (unless there is 'just cause' for the breach). In any case I agree that contract law is getting looser in football but the whole point of this article is that of EU law in respect of free movement of labour and in this regard the EU Commission have made their position very clear - the FIFA proposal as it stands is, and I quote, 'discriminatory and illegal' whatever UK employment law in respect of employment contracts might or might not be.
My brother, who works for a defence contracto,r was asked to sign a contract with a 12month notice period. Having taken legal advice, he signed it, as he was advised by two different law firms that even if he signed it, it was not legally enforceable. When he did resign, he was put on gardening leave for 3months and then was allowed to join a direct competitor. The Armed Forces are unique. They are not listed on the LSE as some football clubs are. There is no way a 12month or even a 6month notice period are enforceable in practice.
Why did Spurs feel compelled to pay Jol for longer than 3 months after terminating his contract or the FA pay Eriksson for so long after his was terminated if not enforceable in law? How was Simon Jordan able to succesfully sue Dowie for breaching the conditions of his release from his contract? You can't stop anyone from breaking a contractual agreement of any kind or restrain them from their trade but you can make them (if you choose, and at certain levels of employment or contract value it may not be pragmatic or financially viable) liable for damages if there isn't a just reason for doing so. But no matter how long we go on with the intricacies of contract law it doesn't change the EU law of freedom of movement of labour.
Me thinks Harry has met his match!! Nice stuff Amos, very interesting!!
Contracts may not be worth the paper they are written on but that has nothing to do with Sepp's proposals. The fact is Sepp (or Platini) cannot impose rules on European clubs that contravene EU laws regarding freedom of labout movement. Sepp seems to think that FIFA is all-powerful, but they aren't. If just England, Italy, and Brazil decided to pull out of FIFA and start their own federation with their own world cup, FIFA would be dead in the water. Sepp is opening a debate he can't win, so he should probably just shut TFU.
*of course I meant 'labour movement', not 'labout movement'
Also, it's not just the EPL who will be affected. A Romanian member in another forum commented about this ruling and said most of the Romanian teams won't be easily able to follow the rules, and he cited the Romanian champions CFR Cluj as an example. Their team only had 2 Romanian players in the first team. And talking about the national team, didn't Romania get to qualify for the Euro 2008? And did England qualify? :P
The strangest thing in all of this is why did the african and south american representatives agree to this. They stand to lose the most when their talents can no longer be exported to europe. Who is going to build the academy that players like abedi pele has build academy when they go back to their home country. Plus i would like to hear what blatter would say to the ivorian kid who will countinue to live in poverty because their father has the talent to make it in a big european club but it not allowed by fifa.
if this comes into effect it the first step toward the big european club forming a breakaway league. i cannot see too many big clubs agreeing to this.
This is not about Arsenal, its about Blatter and his quest to dilute the power of the premier league. His horror at the 39th game proposal, his comments regarding the all English champions league final highlight this. Do you think the 39th game would be as appealing should Liverpool have to select Crouch ahead of Torres or if Chelsea were made to select Sidwell over Ballack? He has also gone ahead with his conquest at a time England are bidding for the 2018 world cup (a tournament we havent held since 1966 despite having the infrastructure to do so whilst some European countries have held it twice in the same period) as he knows the FA wont fully oppose it at this time.
Rocky7, what are you going on about? I haven't seen anyone call Harry post anywhere
Isnt it ironic that he responded to Rockys "Harry" post yet Rocky never mentioned him once, what are the odds? Please dont waste this thread on whether Kernow is SH because we all know the score on that front.
Amos, in the case of Jol, he could have taken Spurs to court and won substantial damages under employment law. As with Eriksson, his job was publically under threat, and the mutual consent fudge was just a way of getting out of facing further legal action. I know of one person who took someone to court, received the outstanding salary on his contract and then was awarded punitive damages plus his employer was fined for breach of employment law. It will only require one test case. With Dowie, there was clearly a financial settlement agreed with Jordan who was then entitled to take Dowie to court as Dowie had lied. However if a player was to resign, there is nothing a club can do about it if we want to think that Footballers are the same as plumbers or nurses etc. Already we are seeing footballers being allowed to buy their way out of contracts and this is the slippery slope. Soon it will be allowed at any stage of a contract, which will make transfer fees irrelevant. Sport will not be allowed to pick or choose which laws it can implement unless Sport says it is not the same as other forms of employment and warrants a complete exemption. And its not anti-Premiership - in the 2002-03 Champions League there were 3 Italian clubs in the semi-finals. What it is, is a reaction to the fact that 60%+ of players in LaLiga are Spanish, 70%+ of players in SerieA are Italian, but only 30% players in the Premiership are English, which by defintion can only deny opportunities to young players living in their own country. And despite UEFA trying to implement the 4+4 rules, clubs have tried to avoid this.
Iceman10, I'm just trying to find out who Harry is? I cannot see his post anywhere and the fan called Amos has only been discussing with me. Has Harry's post been removed? I know on the Spurs site they had to remove some abusive posts and I was just curious to see if 'Harry' had also been abusive. I have been speaking to the Fear, about people being abusive rather than responding to the content of the article. A few weeks ago Rocky7 tried to say I was someone who he'd disagreed with previously. I explained to him that I had chosen my username as the other one had been taken. Does everyone who writes an article or post that Rocky7 disagrees with gettling labelled such? I noticed he has already tried to spoil my article on the Spurs page.
LD - excellent anaylsis. Can you please find the time to respond to Henry Winter's article in the Telegraph online? I used to like Winter but he's fast becoming a bore.
Harry is a guy who LD and the other guys on here took to the absolute cleaners, it was probably the most incredible humiliation in the history of the vital network....every argument he produced was like Derby County mounting an attack, it was stop countered and ended up in a goal for the opposition, it was truly amazing stuff. If R7 having an opinion on the spud version of this topic ruined it then im sure he is truly sorry.
well put LD, the point about the big 4 gap widening is especially true. I think that Wenger will be prepared though, by the time it's implemented (if it gets EU approval); there's a good crop of young Englishmen developing in our youth and reserve squads. Regardless of Blatter's scheme Arsenal will have a big input to the England team in 3-4 years' time.
does anyone know the nittygritties on the 6+5 scheme regarding substitutes? If the bench is still only 5 players then the rule will actually be 9+7 because if 3 englishmen come off during a game then at least three Englishmen will need to be on the bench. And squad depth will have to be predominantly English in case there are a whole lot of injuries during the season.
Thanks Iceman for the information. For me, its a pity VitalFootball doesn't have a page for issues that affect all football clubs because when rival fans find an interesting article on another team's page, there always seems to be confrontation involved. Personally I can see both sides of the coin but as an England (and Spurs) fan I do see the merit behind FIFAs proposal. I also think that within 2-3 years any restriction would be overcome with the likes of Wenger coaching more English youngsters. He did work with national restrictions before when at Monaco.
Any one entrying into a fixed term contract to supply goods or services and breaching it at anytime leaves themselves open to a claim for damages. There is no rule of law that allows anyone to arbitrarily breach such a contract with 3months notice without risking a claim for damages. In 99% of fixed term service contracts the sums involved and the likely damages are too small to warrant pursuing but the option remains open to do so. Football players fixed term contracts are of such a level that to breach it with 3months notice and not expect to receive a claim for damages is unrealistic which explains why nobody has ever done it. Contract law is getting looser and transfers are becoming a bigger risk but the contracts are also becoming tighter and termination clauses more protective. But you can't argue that just because the EU law of freedom of movement of labour renders Blatters idea illegal then something else must also be illegal. The FIFA laws regarding contracts between players and clubs has the acceptance of the EU in their recently revised form. But the two things are mutually exclusive. There is absolutely no way that the 6 + 5 rule in its present form based on nationality will ever be allowed. The Uefa proposal which has been backed by the EU will be accepted and could, as Henry Winter argues, even be hardened. Blatters posturing is a populist act aimed mainly at the non-EU confederations but as the PFA's Gordon Taylor has said he is 'tilting at windmills'. You can expect that the Uefa proposal in some form will be adopted by FIFA at some point over the next year or so.
i think he's already started kernowboy, with the likes of Randall, Gibbs, the two Hoytes, Smith, Thomas, and a bunch of other kids only a couple of seasons away from the senior team
Gooner Vin,it goes like this. Henry Winter is a ****. He's always been a ****. For Henry Winter to deride somebody else for being egotistical is like Alan Shearer saying, "hmmm, the lad uses his elbows a bit too much for my liking." Everything Winter says or has ever said should be categorically ignored.
Little Dutch
we agree kernowboy, hopefully something will be done, certainly in the pipeline.
The Fear
JakeB but again whilst you have some great young English players, Arsenal are continually linked with and buy young overseas players. Will the likes of Randall and Lansbury simply be David Bentley Mk2, a player who would grace Top4 teams but who stepped up after moving away. Yes, he could have stayed but he also wanted regular football.
David Bentley hasn't graced a top4 team since he left us. There is some loose talk of him joining Liverpool or maybe he could do a Sidwell at Chelsea but the likelyhood is that his next move will still be outside the top4 which rather suggests he isn't quite good enough for that level. All the top teams happily recruit players from the European Community as they are quite entitled to do as we are all part of the same community - we are all Europeans! European players for European teams I say - and a few Brazilians just for the extra quality - and some Africans for strength, stamina and tenacity.
yeh good point kb, i guess if the 6+5 rule passes Wenger will be less inclined to let the Bentleys go. Especially since the price of decent English players will skyrocket.
Not sure how I tried to ruin your article KB71 - In fact I'm pretty sure I put up a well reasoned debate as to why the conception of the Preimer League had nothing to do with the fact that the English national side is crap! If disagreeing with you consititute "ruining your article" then I think a public forum is the wrong place for you!
true, Amos, and some australians for .... oh.
By the time this proposal (or a revised version of it) get implemented, should it get implemented, those few English youngsters up Arsene's sleeves right now would be ready to play. That's the worst-case scenario. So I don't see the possibility of us being "hit hard" that the press are talking about. If we're forced to change it like right now this summer to start fielding 6+5 this coming August, then yes. But even if we got the worst-case scenario, we're not unprepared at all.
Lou the Gunneress
Good point JakeB - a couple of australians for the end of season party then.
What was the name of that Australian player we had in the 80s? He famously had to leave the field to go to the toilet and Arsenal lost a goal while he was off.
Little Dutch
I am not worried by this proposal, Arsenal have english players coming up every year, unlike Chelsea. I just want to know how ridiculous it will look and how it will work.
If this goes through you guys are going to suffer more than anyone. You have only Justin Hoyte and Theo Walcott who are first team possibilities and neither are ready. God luck
You'd be gutted should this come about!
Walcott would be 24 by the time the rule takes effect, since Blatter himself said it would come by the 2012-2013 season, and by that time as well most of the English reserves, almost all of which have much experience in the u16s to the u20s, would be 22 by then, so I doubt we'd "suffer more than anyone."
If implemented straight away some 80%+ of PL clubs would suffer including all of the big four. Derby and Reading would have been ok I think! We would still have been able to field 6 English players they would just be younger and more precocious than anyone elses so nothing new there then.
There is no way in the world this will come in by 2012, think 2020. The European Coourts do not work that quickly. This'll take forever if it does go through.
Little Dutch
Nice excellent read!
Doen't county cicket have a similar rule excludin a certain amount of foreigners. I suppose this is because all other cricket nations are non EU.
Also, restricting foreigners in CC has not produced masses of quality English Cricketers. Shock!
blatter is just dumb, just leave things the way they are now, why do you need to forcefully implement local talent? i reckon its good that you dont have too implement local talent, it should help raise the standard of local youngsters, not detriment it, if they cant step up, it means they are just shyt entirely.
Isn't having 6 english people in the team a bit much? 3 would be reasonable and even then I would be against it it would just be reasonable 6 is excessive. What happens if things like injury were to occur. It's also discrimination at it's finest if the EU allow it it would open up a can of worms all over the place. It would also defeat the actual purpose of International football where players represent their country.
Bladder face wants to circle the square & abuse his position. England have failed to qualify for tournaments since the 70s without foreign players. The point is the success of English clubs in european competitios that**** them off.
I think that to improve the quality of English players they should be encouraged to spend some time playing in another country. Look at Owen Hargreaves, the best English player at Germany 06
That is the second time I've seen you quote Mathematics LD, a bit of a Mos Def fan are we? Good article too, I've had to share a country with this**** for the last week or so and even that makes me feel dirty.
Ozi Gooner
Its ridiculous. Only a moron would come up with such idiocy! Does he want club football and international football to be the same thing? Luckily it will be thrown out by the EU anyway and rightly so! I'm not even an Arsenal fan btw!
Nobody who wants to watch the highest quality of football could possibly agree with Blatter. As for his cover story about protecting national football when all he wants to do is destroy the power of the EPL intohe global market- any body who falls for that chestnut should answer me this: what were England winning 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years ago without foreigners in the top flight? If you want to improve the fortunes of the England team, this is the WRONG WAY to go about it. It's like bull-dozing a house to clean away spilt milk. It's a grass-roots coaching issue and nothing to do with the amount of non-English players in the game whose presence raise the technical stanadard and show young English kids to to keep possession and pass ACCURATELY. Get lost Blatter, for the umpteenth time!
arsebnal are weakend in cl league allready.hes on about makin more english players playi so it will improve ur countrys chances of winnin....compered to ur club
england shud not be part of EU cause they dont have the EURO

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