Or Not?

Covered in it Tom!!! lol

Well if you havent got this one in the bag then your manager is an idiot! I think he is losing the plot and its time you had a change of management. reluctant to buy and when he does decide to bring in someone it takes forever and still may not have gone through. You have no chance of winning anything again this season but hey as a Spurs fan we always have egg on our face of late.

Rocky, you have been like Top Gear. Ambitious, but rubbish in your reporting. Gutting.

There's no comfort here - whether he comes or not it's too little too late. Practically any decent, mature player would have fulfilled the role of a good catalyst which is all we could have hoped for at this late stage. Why we got so hung up on one player is beyond me.

Fs SSN you bunch of ****s!

A journalist confirmed that the paperwork had been sent and recieved by Arsenal and the PL (The same guy confirmed the Keane paperwork and transfer), he's now saying that there could have been some problems with the signatures or something. TBH, I don't know what to think anymore and this whole saga is in keeping with Arsenal right now .... a f*&*king shambles. My article included.

its not over yet......

There is nothing about the success or failure of the transfer on the official site- it's not like Arsenal to keep their supporters in the dark!

Elbondo - did you have trouble getting on? I've not been able to access the site for around an hour.

bunch of scruges lol. wh not take a leaf out of our book for once an pay.

Rocky, no problem with arsenal.com. I've been F5'ing it, nothing new there. Maybe they route overseas web traffic separately, and the domestic UK traffic has been too much for their servers or something. But no news on there. Will let you guys if sth comes up.

Neither, 123. It's apparently the return of half of the signing-on fee that Zenit had given to AA when he signed the new deal cos he's only completed half of that period.

I wish I knew 123. Nobody knows. It's one big mess.

Well done Rocky, you've beaten me to the top spot in the members league table, I've just realised. :D

I can't say I'm looking forward to it 123, my usual sense of forboding has been heighten 10 fold.

If Arsenal & the board wait until tomorrow to unveil him that makes them first class c&*%s in my eyes. It's impossibe they don't know how we're all feeling and to drag it out even further is cntishness of the highest order.

I know! But I'm just not sure if that bit was Setanta Sports News's 'understanding' or from the direct quote!

AW himself told SSN: "We will make an announcement today." "Yes it will be a positive announcement, it will go through."

Hmm but didn't Kitbag (the sports merchandise company who runs quite a few of online shopping sites for clubs) make the stupid mistake of offering Chelsea shirts with Robinho's name on it? lol

Exactly.

Not really, Quaresma is a oile of turd who can do a step over. You know your a bad player when your manager is willing to trade you for Jenas.

That's what makes it interesting Tomf! He hasn't played much for Inter either, if he's deemed not good enough for Serie A, I'm not sure how he'll do in the Prem.

Come on LD, we're still in the race for 4th spot. I still believe that, even without Arshavin. This transfer saga is really tiresome though.

We have got him! he will be wearing the number 13 shirt

Weare stillin the race, yes. We're losing it comfortably,but we're still technically in it. That just feels like a very average place to be. Particularly when you pay caviar prices for bangers and mash to borrow an expression from someone.

Quaresma has failed at both big clubs he's gone to, Barca and Inter. If it doesn't work for him at Chelsea, he will have to settle for mediocrity at a Portuguese club.

Sort of - according to SSN, AW answered their questions - see AW quotes in my post above.

And 'Arry has to tell Bent that even if they could take the next penalty after our retake, it'll be Keane's turn cos he's back. Bent: "Oh is he, boss?"

It's not over yet. Apparently Dennis Lachter has said we won't know till tommorow.

But Arsene himself said an announcement would be made tonight!

Lachter and Nasri's agent must be best mates. -_-

Where did you get that agent's confirmation Tomf?

Well Prits I'm a well-bred woman and a mod here. :>

It's true, the whole thing reminds me of some kind of handling over negotiations with two different groups of terrorists in some United nations meeting. Lachter and Arshavin as one group and Zenit as the other. It hasn't been handled as though it has anything to do with football. I hate to jinx it now, but there's been something about this transfer that I haven't liked from the begging even when he 'was going to spurs' something felt wrong...

Well Rob do you think Nasri's been worth the pain so far? I dearly hope AA will be better, now that his agent/club have given us so much *****. He'd better be bloody brilliant, i.e. win the FA Cup, lead us to the CL final or something!

To be honest, for me the Nasri situation wasn't that bad. I just knew he would come, because we didn't hear anything except the odd sounds of very mild approval, nobody was heard to say it wouldn't happen, with Arshavin there have been mixed messages flung at us from all over the place, coupled with the usual ambiguity of Wenger, although he admitted he was interested, he never gave any more details than that.

Premier League say they will tell us tomorrow!! CNTS!!!

The fact it's the PL who are telling us wether the transfer will stand lends some credibility to the theory that there was something wrong with the paperwork ...... and lets me off the hook!

I'd guess the club can't announce anything until the PL tell us the paperwork is in order, was there on time and the transfer is valid! More waiting for us gooners.

Problem? I see no problem! :P

Yeah Armoury, I can't believe it's 12m fee + 2m performance bonus + 70k/week. Very sceptical to say the least.

Can I be misery guts and have a little ***** on this parade... I mean £70k a week - wtf? Since when does a player unproven in the best European leagues merit that kind of pay packet. We need a spark but this all seems wrong to me. We are doing this out of desperation, which is a poor substitute for better planning. I just hope Wenger gets lucky with this new departure!

Andy I see where your coming from but when your voted the 6th best player on the planet you arent going to accept the same amount per week as average joe. If we got him on 70k per week he is being paid less than Lucas Neil, Craig Bellamy and is on a par with Kieron Dyer, Robbie Keane and a host of other nobodys in world football. If the fee is anything like £12million thats a fantastic price for us to have eventually negotiated.

I hear what you're saying iceman, but how many of those desperately-bought names were a success? Look at our £80k Adebayor - he looks like he's above trying now! I agree the £12m is about right, but I wonder who voted him 6th best player - was it mostly Russians? He's got a lot of proving to do to earn that 70k.

Guys, whatever he'll be, he'll be better than Eboue, won't he?! Maybe able to provide a decent assist? Maybe able to take a scoring chance? If this happens, I for one can't wait to see an Arsenal side with Cesc, Nasri, van Persie, Arshavin and Eduardo as our attacking threat. Now doesn't that sound so much better?!

Yeah Tom, no pressure on him or anything...

I agree with Tom14 (which seems to be happening with some regularity now- should I be worried? ;) I think it's a good price, let's hope he proves his worth. At least he won't have trouble with the cold and rain. As the old saying goes Andy, desperate times call for desperate measures. Hopefully a lesson has been learned and in future we'll plan a bit (and by a bit I mean a lot) better. Then again, it's in the FA's hands now, a body so competent that they reviewed a tape of Boswinga kicking Benayoun in the back and saying no action need be taken, so I'm not 100% confident it will go through even if all the i's have been dotted and all the t's crossed.

elbondo, I think we should disagree a few times to make sure the World does not implode, ok? The Stone Roses are ace as ****. Their guitarist is a Legend and the drummer is possibly the greatest other than a few (Pert the obvious example). The bassist has consimed more drugs than the average village and the singer is cooler than anybody ever. And their best songs trump anything The Beatles or the Stone's have ever done. Oasis rule, Jazz drools.

Stone Roses- I think I remember them. They were those shoe-gazers who put out an album or two in the 1980's, right? I think I heard one of their songs on one of the radio stations while driving around in GTA:San Andreas. What ever happened to them? I heard they were going to do a reunion tour with A Flock of Seagulls, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, and Right Said Fred. Whew, that's better!

All we have done is discuss our club and what we feel is right or wrong with it? I havent seen 1 Wenger out call, no sack the board claims just sensible talk on where we believe our club should be challenging and how we as fans feel we should do it. If you want to join in feel free, Amos has differing opinions and seems to get on fine.

some in this site are suggesting that AW, in reportedly trying to hold out 3m to conclude a deal, is merely being egoistic and prove that he is still the shrewdest dog in transfer biz. Some felt that it's not a question of assessing if a player is worth another 3m or more, but it's all about a "statement of intent". To the former, my question is - do we want a manager/owner who don't give a damn of the club's financial future and overpays insanely (check Bellamy-Man C; Heskey-Villa; ALL players-Spurs)? if that is so, maybe it's time that we demand the club to replace AW with another manager (the club would have an abundance of choice) that fits the bill. It is very easy to spend money, esp in AW case given his stature in the club he can esily use his intelligence to manipulate the situtation to "force" the club to give in to his demand. Also, it is not like he is spending his own $$$ and he will still draw his wages as well. But why is he risking incurring the wrath of the fans by trying his best to seal the best possible deal? To the latter, my question is - "how far are we prepare to spend to issue a "statement of intent"? the reported 15m pounds? If that does happen, won't we question the sanity, judgement and integrity of the board and AW?

Noe, he really has signed for us, just a question as to weather we completed it with the right signatures or not. And alwaysgunner, you have just proven me to be correct. elbondo, I know you dislike the SR, but what about (the old) Kings of Leon?

on his personal web site he says he'll be wearing no. 23.Hope he'll have an impact like another no. 23 had on his team and his initials were MJ. Rocky, time for you to write another article entitled " Closest Ar-Shavin ever".

AG, strap on a pair mate, people are allowed to have their opinions, that they are different to yours doesn't make them less worthy or connote anything about abaility, learn to listen and you will profit even from those that speak badly as the saying goes. I'm not particularly concerned whether my own opinions are with the majority or minority or whatever, they are mine. I refer you to A.A. Milne who said, "the third rate mind is happy when it is thinking with the majority, the second rate mind is happy when it is thinking with the minority, the first rate mind is happy when it is thinking." Anyway, that's enough pretension for one day. Temasek, my "beef" wasn't so much with the Arshavin saga or the player in itself, the fact that Barca, Madrid and Spurs were unable to broker deals in the summer proves Zenit were a right bunch of ********s to deal with. Nor do I want to smash our wage structure per se (though when you have the second highest wage bill in the Premiership and only three world class players in your squad, it's not really a moral card the club is holding). However, 1) the Alonso non deal should have taught us to always have a contingency plan and give us time to execute it (we also were very lucky to get Gallas, we signed him 10 mins after the deadline but the PL allowed it through) and 2) Seriously, Madrid and Barca made enquiries in the summer, found out the guy's wage demands and the fee, baulked and bought someone else instead. Why we spent 31 days trying to establish these facts is beyond me. Anyhoo, I also think its clear we needed more than one player and yes January is a dry time for good players, but that's what you get for sitting on your can all summer. Basically, the current squad is quite average, not capable of competing at the top and not of sufficient quality to play the kind of football the board have been using to justify the price structure for all of these years. The frustration for me is that a man of Wenger's peerless quality is more than capable of addressing the deficiencies much better than he has. If Redknapp or Hughes were our manager, I probably wouldn't be so frustrated, they are average managers who would make our side avaerage within the resources we have. Wenger is better than that and much better than he is showing right now.

Once again, it's not a case of one signing transforming our team as such, he may he may not. It's also not to do with they hype around deadline day or anything of that sort. The fact is, the last 12 months have seen a huge fall in the quality of this team and I think it was important that after the floundering in the summer, that the manager made it clear that this wasn't acceptable to him and an acknowledgment that fighting a losing battle for 4th with Diaby on the wing ain't good enough. We were in a similar position in 2006, he bought in Adebayor, Diaby and Walcott (who wasn't really a signing for that season). That side's big problem was that it lacked physical power, so he went and bought two players that made up that shortfall. (Believe it or not, Diaby used to play quite well for us once upon a time, right up until the time he signed an improved contract I think). In their first games, Ade scored the winner and Diaby was MOTM away at Brum, we'd instantly rectified that fault and we weren't outmuscled away from home again that year. Van Persie was also injured two days after the clse of the window that year, so the signing of Ade proved invaluable. Now we are a team that does not create much at all and hasn't been doing so all season. That desperately needed to be fixed. Had it not, that would have been a tacit admission from the manager that, having not solved the problem in 2 transfer windows, that he wasn't all that bothered by it. Certainly not enough to have done anything tangible about it. I realise transfers aren't easy, but the man is paid well enough to have bought the needed players over a grand total of five months available.

I wonder what time today we will get a definitive answer from the PL. Surely before lunch....

The fact that Diaby used to play quite well for us simply proves that he is good enough to play quite well for us. The trick is to get him (and others) to play as well for us as we have seen that they are capable of doing. That the squad isn't performing well enough for better than 5th place at the moment is clear. If they are good players performing averagely then we have to get them performing better in order to achieve more. The problem we have is simply with the balance of the team not so much the quality of the players we have. It isn't completely true that we haven't created much all season. That's only become critical in recent games. We were creating chances in the early part of the season and were among the highest scoring teams. We still are but the loss of Cesc has reduced our creative ability in recent games though we have tightened up defensively - especially since Walcotts injury. We have shown that we can create chances and that we can keep clean sheets - but not as yet too often at the same time. Getting the midfield balance right is our biggest need (and gaining experience). If signing a player or two does that then that is the reason for bringing someone in - not as a symbol of the club's virility for the sake of supporters.

Amos - doesn't Wenger say the first sign of quality is consisitency? (or something along those lines). In that case the likes of Diaby, Eboue and Song aren't quality. Sure, that may be a reflection of their inexperience/age, but then that's the manager's fault for expecting all these young players to deliver week in week out. The bottom line is mistakes have been made and it's not as though they are less than obvious. If this signing hadn't been made I have to say that there would have been an air of despair around the fans. Whatever happens at the end of the season, at least we can feel that the Club actually tried to be bold and go for it.

Rocky - that's a great point. I really feel that we should have kept Gilberto, his experience, leadership, genuine love of this club and his positional sense/play would have invaluable right now.

Absolutely LD/Prits, i think some of these players need to realise that they're not undroppable, when it unfortunately appears that they are. Adebayor being a case in point, now i'm really hoping this arrival, and Eduardo's return will give him a kick up the Arse that he deserves, because at the moment, he truly is undroppable.

Very well said LD, could not agree more. A 'statement of intent' indeed. The rest of this squad needs a kick up the arse.

If there isn't readily available talent better than we have, I have to ask why it is we're deservedly 5th? The loss of Hleb and Flamini were so big because a) it has robbed us of our balance, b) the fact that neither player was replaced has absolutely cemented the place of certain players in the team and c) promoted those that weren't good enough from last February onwards when the squad was hit with injuries last season. Once again, whether Arshavin can wave a magic wand is not really the point, the point is does the manager accept that the sides huge fall in such a short space of time isn't good enough and does he at least try to rectify it? To not have addressed it would have been a tacit admission that he is happy with what we have put out in the last year. I don't think nervousness has played a part in our indifferent displays, it's because the quality of player we now have is, with a very few gleaming exceptions, not able to produce the kind of football Arsenal want to play. That's not inexperience, that's not nerves, that's not down to injuries, that's down to quality. The fact is our midfield at the moment do not have the technical ability to control the ball under pressure and distribute it quickly and accurately and keep the ball moving. This is why we haven't seen many good performances from Arsenal this season and why we aren't even close to being the most attractive side in England any longer.

Amos - I recall you starting a thread in the forums a while ago in which you suggested it was Alex Hleb Arsenal missed the most from it's starting line up. Everything we are now lacking was what Hleb was all about (apart from goals obviously) and from what I've seen of AA he is the perfect foil ... possibiy even better as he can score goals. Of course he might not adpat, but that's the risk taken with every single transfer you make.

If Wenger was wrong (which has been known in the past) then is it not better to try and right those wrongs? There's nothing to say he won't get it wrong again, but you can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket.

*I meant wait a couple of months for a player like Henry. Fortunately on that occasion, while he developed we bought in another striker who did a pretty good job up until TH sorted himself out. Chap by the name Davor Suker, world class goalscorer and someone who a) we could trust to do a job and b) was probably of value on the training ground when Henry, by his own admission, couldn't finish a Greek salad.

The squad is not bereft of quality per se. They have the quality to merit 5th place which is the point being made. And I doubt whether anyone expects Arshavin to wave his magic wand and solve all our issues. But he will help us in certain areas where we are lacking. If we created 4 chances against West Ham, Arshavin might probably make that 6 chances. Still no guarantee that he would score a goal. But the odds of scoring one with 6 chances are greater, than with 4.

Denilson has been doing a fine job but he's not offering nowhere in the sphere of what Flamini was to us last year. The presence of Flamini basically gave license for Cesc, Hleb and Rosicky to go forward more freely. Flamini's sheer workrate and the fact that he could and would put tackles in was brilliant. Diaby can't tackle and win a ball back, I've seen him mistime his tackles quite often. For me, Diaby seems like a luxury player - which is probably why he does well playing the extra midfielder just off the front man in a 4-5-1 formation.

Flamini's departure has had no effect on Cesc in an attacking sense. Cesc has created more goal attempts for the time played than he averaged last season. Flamini was not among the highest tacklers in the PL last season Denilson already ranks higher in that regard so far this season. The key in your comment is the combination of Hleb and Rosicky. Though Flamini had a positive effect on the tempo at which we played a midfield of Hleb, Rosicky, Cesc and Denilson would be as well balanced as it was last season with Flamini in place of Denilson. Nasri brings something to the table (quite a lot in fact) in place of Hleb/Rosicky but not quite the experience - understandably perhaps. Maybe Arshavin will bring a little more of what we are currently missing but I think there are few other available options worldwide. That's why it isn't quite as simple as just going out a buying a replacement. I think we underestimate the quality we do have which is why it's so hard to buy ready made replacements.

I agree Eboue gets too much flack, but seriously, he's not very good. It doesn't take much to see his control is poor, his distribution worse and his work rate isn't up to much. Much like Diaby in fact. RvP was a reasonable risk to take on the injury front (though I'd still be cautious, in 05-06 and 06-07 his injuries came in the last week of Jan/ first week of Feb- he's still not broken through yet), but Rosicky had ten hamstring injuries in two and a half years. To expect his hamstring problem from last January to have been short term is pretty poor judgement. At the risk of sounding self aggrandising, I put down a £20 bet in August that he'd never play for us again. Was that an educated guess or a punt in the dark? RvP broke his foot/ his toe and twisted knee ligaments- you could justifiably put that down to luck at this stage. But Rosicky's have all been the same injury and at his age, it's probably never going to clear up. In fact, the Czech Rep medical staff warned us about him when we signed him. Eboue has been overused in an unfamiliar position for two years now with underwhelming results, it was only right to rectify that in the transfer market. As for Flamini/ Denilson, Denilson wins as much ball as Flamini ever did, I didn't see the stats from Saturday, but I lost count of the amount of times he won interceptions and tackles and got the attack going again with a simple pass. He has infinitely more speheres than Flamini. The only reason people don't notice it is that Denilson's superior positional sense means he doesn't have to run around like a maniac as Flamini did, Denilson's passing is also much better and one thing to take stock of is how many times he makes himself available for a pass every time a team mate is in trouble. Watch out for it, it's amazing how often he wants the ball, something Flamini didn't really offer. Of all the players filling our midfield slots this year, Denilson is the only one who has been consistent.

Eboue is good up until the final third when his brain freezes. His interception stats are among the best in the team so he can read play and break it up well enough. He is very quick over short distances, his pass completion rate is good and his control usually sound. That said he isn't the brightest player we have and he won't get much better than he is now but as a versatile squad player he is probably more valuable to the team than Gilberto would be now. Probably as valuable to us as Park Ji-Sung is to Manu or Milner is to Villa. I think the Czech medical team were confident that Rosicky would make the Euros at one stage. Whether he'll play again I don't know but it isn't beyond medical science to repair him. I don't blame Wenger for taking the advise he was given at the time even though it was wrong. By the time he found out it would have been to late to do anything about it but his expectation that bringing in Nasri would balance the squad assuming Rosicky would play seems a reasonable judgement to have made in the circumstances. If he has found a replacement in this window that's as much as we can expect him to do if, as he claims, he is convinced of the quality of the rest of the squad.

LD: "AG, strap on a pair mate ... than he is showing right now." That's a long post I'd like to cut and paste, and send to about a dozen Arsenal blogs right now, not to mention send it to arse.com.

Amos, Park and milner are much better at attacking compared to eboue. Bit he is useful.

As said in LD's post.

Comparing Eboue to Park or Milner is far too generous, but then again, they have better midfields so maybe that offsets the inferior ability of Eboue to Park/Milner. Dutch i see where you're coming from with Denilson's positional sense, but his forward passing really isn't all that, he can pass it sideways, sure, but when it's down to him to the be the creative and attaching fulcrum of the 2 in the middle i think we fall way short.

You can use stats to prove anything, 85% of people will tell you that. Amos - are you an actuary?! The frustrating thing is how poor he really is, surely Wilshere can't do any worse?! And can you please point out a worse squad player in Arsene's time that has had this much playing time...?!

You are wrong to assume that Amos. Nobody, apart from the idiots, will claim that Eboue should be a top quality player and blame him for anything wrong within our squad, we know that he is only supposed to be a back up player, but he is in the team and plays more than he should do. But in a debate about Park or Eboue, Park wins ant time of any day.

If you put up Hleb's stats they don't make great reading, but I think you and I both know that his function to the team was valuable. Ditto Park, he makes his team play, he is the legs that allow Ronaldo, Berbatov and Tevez to do their business at the other end. Similar to how Fabregas is a much better player with Hleb alongside him, though no stat would quantify that. Eboue makes us slightly better defensively when he has a decent game (which doesn't happen often), but that's it. Diaby also, doesn't offer much defensively, gives the ball away a lot, can't trap a bag of sand and has the touch of a baby elephant. On his game, he can sometimes be useful going forwards behind the striker, but this doesn't happen enarly often enough to justify his existance in a side with anything more than UEFA Cup ambitions.

Achilles injecting a bit of humour into the thread there...

Eboue does have some qualities and is probably o.k. as either a back up right back or a very occasional squad player (the fact we have to give him so much match time shows our squad is too weak). But I can't say aggression is one of the qualities I see in him. That's a kind way of putting it.

What about stats for miscontrolled passes? In all honesty i've never forgiven Eboue for spitting on his debut. He is a half decent right back, that's it.

If he's a better player in your minds Tom then that's all that really matters. Doesn't mean that Eboue isn't a useful squad player for us though.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/russian-international-arshavin-joins-arsenal

I didn't ever argue that Eboue was a better player than P J-S simply that he was as valuable to our squad as P J-S is to ManU. The stats support that. I dare say that Bentley was as valuable to Blackburn last season as Hleb was to us. More so if the respective transfer fees are anything to go by.

I am happy to leave you to the comfort of your opinion Tom.

Not the opinion of everyone else Tom, you and some others. I don't think that P J-S is a far superior player as you and others claim. I don't think Eboue is quite as hopeless as some are saying or that P J-S is anywhere near as good as some opinions here. Having said all that I couldn't really care much either way. Eboue is a decent squad player and if we can get someone better I am happy for us to do so. In the meantime Wenger seems happy to offer him a new contract so maybe it isn't an issue he gives any great priority to which seems about right to me.

whats the point in certain people making comments about eboue and not backing them up? if u dont like him then u must have a reason?