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The Case for the Defence

At this trying stage of the season, the issue of team selections is always going to be a prickly one. Arsenal were recently shaded by one goal in a very even F.A. Cup Semi Final against a team that cost roughly 130 million, whilst missing four defenders and a first choice goalkeeper and the criticism for the manager has bordered on pathological. This of course is because new signing and all round Golden boy Andrey Arshavin was left on the bench in favour of the brawn of Abou Diaby. Arshavin`s subsequent four goal cameo at Anfield has been used as a particularly pointy twig to affix the stick with which the manager is being beaten. Of course this largely ignores not only that Liverpool was a completely different game against completely different opposition, but firstly the lack of protection Arshavin afforded to Gibbs on Tuesday night, which was costly in its own way and would likely have been even more ruthlessly punished by Nicolas Anelka. But it also ignores that there is one manager in England who knows Arshavin`s strengths and, ergo, how to nullify them, better than Arsene Wenger. I will leave you to figure out who that manager is, but having watched Essien dish out an absolute master class in man marking against Steven Gerrard at Anfield ten days earlier, multiplied by Chelsea`s muscle in midfield to the power of Guus Hiidink`s inside knowledge of the Russian, I think Wenger`s decision made sense at the time he picked his team. You may think hindsight has proved Wenger wrong, I would not necessarily disagree, though there is no guarantee Arshavin would have changed the result, but I think the logic is simple enough for Wenger to be cut more slack than he has been in the aftermath.

With Arsenal now out of the F.A. Cup and with fourth place winking at us from the end of the tunnel, our focus is now more austere than it was seven days ago. When asked if players would be rested against Middlesbrough on Sunday, Wenger replied, "Yes, of course we think about it." In the same interview he explained that the prevailing reason for the slapstick defending on Tuesday night was down to fatigue. 'I am not happy with our defending but I believe that our defence has played many games and they were a bit jaded physically,' he explained.

'We cannot change many players, especially at the back. Offensively we have a bit more choice but at the back we haven`t got too much choice."

Of course this is a textbook case of Wenger protecting his charges; Gibbs has played the last four games, Silvestre the last three and a half and Sagna has just come back from a two match constitutional. Kolo Toure is the only member of the current makeshift back four who can justifiably claim fatigue. What Wenger does with his back four on Sunday will be very interesting. He will know full well that if defending as slapdash as that which was exhibited against Liverpool is repeated at Old Trafford on Wednesday the likeliness of the second leg being anything other than a procession will be high. Lest we forget there will be no Andrey Arshavin to dig us out of any holes (not that I would expect him to repeat the feats of Tuesday) and that Ferdinand and Vidic are hardly going to be as charitable as Carragher and Agger were in a game where circumstance forced Liverpool to go hell for leather. That said, Liverpool have recently garnered four goal hauls from United at Old Trafford, Real Madrid, Aston Villa and Chelsea. (As well as Fat Sam`s Blackburn). So we were in good company against one of Europe`s most potent attacking forces of late. However, the question is does Wenger stick or twist?

Whilst he bemoans a lack of choice in public, privately Wenger will know the chance for experimentation is open to him on Sunday. Upon announcing Gael Clichy`s back injury, the manager revealed he had thought about moving Bacary Sagna to left back, with Eboue in his natural habitat at right back. Gibbs has acquitted himself impressively for a boy with so little experience, but he will require his left winger to look after him. If Arsene has designs on playing Arshavin on the left on Sunday, this could be a move to consider. This time last year the currently in form Alex Song was afforded a run in the side at centre half and the option is also there to reacquaint himself with that position again, with Silvestre either moving over to left back or dropping to the bench altogether. Whilst the criticism of Silvestre of late has been overly harsh, it`s hard to argue that he has covered himself in glory in this three and a half game spell. Once again, familiarity might force Wenger`s hand again for with the United game in mind, as with Arshavin`s case on Saturday, there is one manager in the Premiership who knows Silvestre better than Wenger. Ferguson will have had Silvestre`s weaknesses catalogued for a number of years, selling him to us might prove to be the best piece of business in this season`s transfer market if Ferguson can feed upon these weaknesses and ensure United progress to another Champions League Final. However, Wenger expressed concerns that Song has not played at centre half this season and is therefore reluctant to fling him into that particular bear pit. The manager would also be aware that Song has hit a purple patch of form in midfield and will not want to countenance that by shifting him positionally. If you want an indication of how good Song`s form has been, ask yourself how you would have reacted twelve months ago had someone told you that his omission from the starting line up of a semi final against Chelsea would have been cited as one of the key reasons for defeat.

Yet another recourse of action might be to move Bacary Sagna to centre back and omit one of Silvestre or Gibbs. Sagna has the physical attributes; the pace and the bravery to play the position which might make Wenger think him better suited to the task of nullifying the bulldozer of Rooney. Whilst experimentation at this stage of the season can appear risky with so much at stake, most would argue that one of the biggest reasons for Arsenal making their only Champions League Final appearance to date was the emergence of Mathieu Flamini, who rather serendipitously turned out to be a decent makeshift left back. Against Middlesbrough`s shot shy attack, Wenger might well be tempted with any one of these options. Though it would be foolhardy to take a Boro side fighting for Premiership survival lightly, the price of failure on Sunday is less than it would be on Wednesday. However, Wenger will also be fully aware that the back four`s disjointed showing on Tuesday night would be a consequence of unfamiliarity as much as anything else. Silvestre was actually a first choice for a run of games in the autumn and looked assured with a run of games under his belt. However, he was partnered with Gallas in that spell, the Toure-Silvestre axis has been untried until this month, it figures that their first couple of games together might illicit signs of rustiness. Silvestre`s biggest weakness, other than the fact that he fudges his Alans every time the ball is played above his head, surrounds his lack of pace, but Toure has plenty in that department to suggest that he can make up the shortfall- as Toure has done for Campbell and Gallas. Arsene might be reluctant to break up the back four as it would give them another game under their belts as a unit and a crucial chance to enhance their understanding. So does Arsene stick or twist? Does he risk foregoing any potential telepathy? Does he uncover an unexpected solution to the recent defensive malaise? Gallas has been partnered with Toure, Silvestre and Djourou as first choice pairings this season, but it was the long term rekindling of the previously maligned Toure Gallas axis that led to our new found defensive stability in 2009. Experience might suggest Arsene sticks on this occasion and opts for the chance to nurture the roots of familiarity. These are the sorts of decisions that make or break seasons. As Lloyd Grossman might say, Arsene it`s over to you.LD.





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The Journalist

Writer: Tim Stillman Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday April 23 2009

Time: 3:25PM

Your Comments

Completely agree! Also the negativity amongst arsenal fans (from looking at blogs etc except for maybe arseblogger) is ridiculous. I was reading the online gooner and they said that if wenger was incharge of anfeild 89 then the game would have finished 2-1. I mean seriously what utter tosh. People pretend that Arsenal was a tripple european cup winning team before wenger arrived. This is only our second time in the semi finals of the european cup. For heavens sake people, why be so miserable????
operationmindcrime
Completely agree! Also the negativity amongst arsenal fans (from looking at blogs etc except for maybe arseblogger) is ridiculous. I was reading the online gooner and they said that if wenger was incharge of anfeild 89 then the game would have finished 2-1. I mean seriously what utter tosh. People pretend that Arsenal was a tripple european cup winning team before wenger arrived. This is only our second time in the semi finals of the european cup. For heavens sake people, why be so miserable????
operationmindcrime
I think that our defensive performance against the scousers had more to do with the way we set up in midfield rather than real problems with the back four. Not that there weren't any. Gibbs had a difficult time though he didn't ever hide and none of the other three covered themselves in glory. But with the exception of Nasri our midfield was woeful. I guess the pick for this game will based on what we want to field in the CL. There is a story that Djourou will be fit for the weekend so I guess that might mean Toure is rested against 'boro. Eboue on the right with Sagna on the left makes sense too though I guess the hope/expectation is that Clichy will also be available for the CL game so maybe Sagna gets more recovery time and Gibbs gets another chance to impress. The selection for midfield will depend on who we need to be fit most for ManU. I would guess Nasri, Cesc and Song are definite picks so maybe we won't see them featuring at the weekend. The cure for our defensive malady though lies as much in midfield as it does in defense. Arsene needs to be every bit as careful about who we have available in midfield as in the back line.
Amos.
I think that our defensive performance against the scousers had more to do with the way we set up in midfield rather than real problems with the back four. Not that there weren't any. Gibbs had a difficult time though he didn't ever hide and none of the other three covered themselves in glory. But with the exception of Nasri our midfield was woeful. I guess the pick for this game will based on what we want to field in the CL. There is a story that Djourou will be fit for the weekend so I guess that might mean Toure is rested against 'boro. Eboue on the right with Sagna on the left makes sense too though I guess the hope/expectation is that Clichy will also be available for the CL game so maybe Sagna gets more recovery time and Gibbs gets another chance to impress. The selection for midfield will depend on who we need to be fit most for ManU. I would guess Nasri, Cesc and Song are definite picks so maybe we won't see them featuring at the weekend. The cure for our defensive malady though lies as much in midfield as it does in defense. Arsene needs to be every bit as careful about who we have available in midfield as in the back line.
Amos.
I think the reason the fans had the hump also about the Chelsea game is that our leading goal scorer and most explosive striker, RVP, was played out wide on the left when we had a fully fit Arshavin sitting on the bench after a week off. A pretty stupid thing to do, when you look at it in the cold light of day. Our defence was under manned so it made sense to concentrate on the attacking options we had and he made our top striker this year totally ineffective. I am always an optimistic Arsenal fan, but if you cannot see that was a terrible tactical decision from the manager then you are nave. Not everyone who criticises the manager is a plastic of fickle fan. Arsene knows best, that is true, but not al the time.
LondonGooner
I think the reason the fans had the hump also about the Chelsea game is that our leading goal scorer and most explosive striker, RVP, was played out wide on the left when we had a fully fit Arshavin sitting on the bench after a week off. A pretty stupid thing to do, when you look at it in the cold light of day. Our defence was under manned so it made sense to concentrate on the attacking options we had and he made our top striker this year totally ineffective. I am always an optimistic Arsenal fan, but if you cannot see that was a terrible tactical decision from the manager then you are nave. Not everyone who criticises the manager is a plastic of fickle fan. Arsene knows best, that is true, but not al the time.
LondonGooner
"Stupid thing to do" - "terrible tactical decision" - "anyone who doesn't share my view is naive". Not even just the slightest chance that there was some logic in the decisions and that had we played as you suggested we would have been beaten more comprehensively then LG? I don't neccessarily agree with the tactical decisons in that game either but I am not naive enough to believe that whatever I would have done would automaically have been right.
Amos.
"Stupid thing to do" - "terrible tactical decision" - "anyone who doesn't share my view is naive". Not even just the slightest chance that there was some logic in the decisions and that had we played as you suggested we would have been beaten more comprehensively then LG? I don't neccessarily agree with the tactical decisons in that game either but I am not naive enough to believe that whatever I would have done would automaically have been right.
Amos.
I never said we would win or that it would of changed the result did I Amos? no where did i say that it was "right" either I made it clear it was a baffling decision and if no one could see that then they were naive. I see nothing wrong in what i have posted??? Not only am I haveing words put in my mouth but the ones I did use are being twisted.....just because I have a different opinion to you doesn't make it wrong Amos.
LondonGooner
I never said we would win or that it would of changed the result did I Amos? no where did i say that it was "right" either I made it clear it was a baffling decision and if no one could see that then they were naive. I see nothing wrong in what i have posted??? Not only am I haveing words put in my mouth but the ones I did use are being twisted.....just because I have a different opinion to you doesn't make it wrong Amos.
LondonGooner
"anyone who cannot see that is naive" i believe is what I said? I take no satisfaction in being proved right as we lost that game, would we of won, maybe not, but goals win games and Arshavin scores goals. So yes i do believe it was a terrible decision to nullify our best striker this season and currently our most potent midfielder. A cup semi final requires nothing less than your strongest team available, especially when you haven't won a trophy for a few seasons and you one game froma final. Arshavin IS part of our strongest team, therefore he should of played. a swe are oput of the cup I guess it is a moot point now really. My opinion is as valid as yours.......especially as you agree the decisions where in your opinion, wrong. "I don't neccessarily agree with the tactical decisons in that game either" Amos
LondonGooner
"anyone who cannot see that is naive" i believe is what I said? I take no satisfaction in being proved right as we lost that game, would we of won, maybe not, but goals win games and Arshavin scores goals. So yes i do believe it was a terrible decision to nullify our best striker this season and currently our most potent midfielder. A cup semi final requires nothing less than your strongest team available, especially when you haven't won a trophy for a few seasons and you one game froma final. Arshavin IS part of our strongest team, therefore he should of played. a swe are oput of the cup I guess it is a moot point now really. My opinion is as valid as yours.......especially as you agree the decisions where in your opinion, wrong. "I don't neccessarily agree with the tactical decisons in that game either" Amos
LondonGooner
A decision can be proved wrong in hindsight but still be understandable. We lost the game ergo something went wrong. The fact that it is wrong doesn't make it a terrible decision or stupid. Any decision you or I might have made may have been even worse - more stupid and even more terrible - we'll never know. The advantage we have is that we can't be proved wrong. The balance of probability though is that either of us are more likely to get such decisions wrong - in which case accusations of naivety or stupidity are just a tad presumptuous.
Amos.
A decision can be proved wrong in hindsight but still be understandable. We lost the game ergo something went wrong. The fact that it is wrong doesn't make it a terrible decision or stupid. Any decision you or I might have made may have been even worse - more stupid and even more terrible - we'll never know. The advantage we have is that we can't be proved wrong. The balance of probability though is that either of us are more likely to get such decisions wrong - in which case accusations of naivety or stupidity are just a tad presumptuous.
Amos.
But Rvp did not start the game on the left, Diaby did and RvP started upfront, but they switched. I wouldn't necessarily criticise AW for leaving Arshavin out, but it's clear he should have been bought on earlier than he was.
Little Dutch
But Rvp did not start the game on the left, Diaby did and RvP started upfront, but they switched. I wouldn't necessarily criticise AW for leaving Arshavin out, but it's clear he should have been bought on earlier than he was.
Little Dutch
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/almunia-djourou-and-adebayor-close-to-return Looks like Almunia and Djourou are back. I'd imagine Silvestre will shift over to LB.
Little Dutch
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/almunia-djourou-and-adebayor-close-to-return Looks like Almunia and Djourou are back. I'd imagine Silvestre will shift over to LB.
Little Dutch
RVP is out.
jaelle
RVP is out.
jaelle
LG, I'm in your camp on this and I'm one of those who went OTT in my anger toward Arsene because I thought we had a very good chance of getting to the FA cup final at least, particularly since we had a player like Arshavin available. But having had days to calm down a bit and think, now I do wonder if Arsene was rightly concerned about Hiddink's knowledge of Arshavin and his team's ability to cancel out a player like Gerrard. I just wish he would've put him on much earlier. I noticed in Arsene's comments that he alluded to the game going to extra time, I wonder if he was banking on that as the reason for such a late substitution. // As to the defence question...I have to agree entirely with Amos on the midfield issue. I think all season long the 08-09 campaign has been principally about our midfield, for both attack and defense. But there's another equally important issue that needs to be addressed, both Arshavin and Cesc talked about it after Tuesday's game: the need for every player to take responsibility to defend, collective defending. I don't know why this hasn't been drummed into the players in training, you don't just stroll back and just watch our defender and keeper struggle to fight off a bunch of opponents all pummeling our goal.
jaelle
LG, I'm in your camp on this and I'm one of those who went OTT in my anger toward Arsene because I thought we had a very good chance of getting to the FA cup final at least, particularly since we had a player like Arshavin available. But having had days to calm down a bit and think, now I do wonder if Arsene was rightly concerned about Hiddink's knowledge of Arshavin and his team's ability to cancel out a player like Gerrard. I just wish he would've put him on much earlier. I noticed in Arsene's comments that he alluded to the game going to extra time, I wonder if he was banking on that as the reason for such a late substitution. // As to the defence question...I have to agree entirely with Amos on the midfield issue. I think all season long the 08-09 campaign has been principally about our midfield, for both attack and defense. But there's another equally important issue that needs to be addressed, both Arshavin and Cesc talked about it after Tuesday's game: the need for every player to take responsibility to defend, collective defending. I don't know why this hasn't been drummed into the players in training, you don't just stroll back and just watch our defender and keeper struggle to fight off a bunch of opponents all pummeling our goal.
jaelle
Amos, to sum up what i said - anyone who cannot see it after the incident is naive - hardly presumptuous is it when everyone seems to agree that Arshavin should of got more playing time.....! Due to what everyone now precieves as a tactical error by Wenger regarding Arshavin we have possibly lost out ona cup final appearence, that is basically all I was saying, those who cannot see that ARE naive.
LondonGooner
Amos, to sum up what i said - anyone who cannot see it after the incident is naive - hardly presumptuous is it when everyone seems to agree that Arshavin should of got more playing time.....! Due to what everyone now precieves as a tactical error by Wenger regarding Arshavin we have possibly lost out ona cup final appearence, that is basically all I was saying, those who cannot see that ARE naive.
LondonGooner
OH THANK GOD!!!
GoonerLou
OH THANK GOD!!!
GoonerLou
Yes I read that Djourou and Almunia would be back. Silvestre out left looks the favourite bet. If that's the case he might not play him against 'boro and hope that Djouro and Toure come through unscathed. Maybe Sagna needs the game or part of the game though.
Amos.
Yes I read that Djourou and Almunia would be back. Silvestre out left looks the favourite bet. If that's the case he might not play him against 'boro and hope that Djouro and Toure come through unscathed. Maybe Sagna needs the game or part of the game though.
Amos.
I am sorry but I have to disagree with a lot of what has been said about why we lost to chelsea....I do not believe it was a tactical error for Wenger to have picked the team he did...he obviously had reasons for the starting line up...what let us down was the fact that the some of the players he DID pick played so appallingly. A smart manager would have recognised what was going on and changed things a lot earlier...waiting for so long to make changes was the worst tactical error.....
radarman
I am sorry but I have to disagree with a lot of what has been said about why we lost to chelsea....I do not believe it was a tactical error for Wenger to have picked the team he did...he obviously had reasons for the starting line up...what let us down was the fact that the some of the players he DID pick played so appallingly. A smart manager would have recognised what was going on and changed things a lot earlier...waiting for so long to make changes was the worst tactical error.....
radarman
Sometimes I think we don't deserve Arsene Wenger. I have never read such complete and utter tosh as I have in the last two days. I honestly thought I'd wandered into VitalLiverpool by accident. If some people can get so doom and gloom over a damned good away point in match people said we couldn't give a toss about the WHAT on earth are Scousers like on THEIR site FGS? Get some perspective!
julieloveshenry4ever
Sometimes I think we don't deserve Arsene Wenger. I have never read such complete and utter tosh as I have in the last two days. I honestly thought I'd wandered into VitalLiverpool by accident. If some people can get so doom and gloom over a damned good away point in match people said we couldn't give a toss about the WHAT on earth are Scousers like on THEIR site FGS? Get some perspective!
julieloveshenry4ever
Its amazing how we fans hide behind the anonimity afforded by our computers and spout all kinda crap. Opinions are stuffs to which every human is entitled, but when you elevate them to the status of unimpeachable facts that may not be questioned or debated, they are no longer valid. Few of us, if any, have any knowledge of these players beyond what we see of them on the telly or in the stadia, but like the press we are all quick to knock, we don't allow objectivity to get in the way of the "opinions" we seek to canvass. Wenger gets paid the fantastic salary he gets because he knows better than us. He sees the players in training, he knows their strenghts and weaknesses, he took a decision most of us do not necessarily agree with and it backfired, but eh, big deal, its his job to take those decisions and he has been more right than wrong over the years. Amos, thanks for always sticking by your principles, I completely agree with you on the team selection against the Chavs.
deledudu
Its amazing how we fans hide behind the anonimity afforded by our computers and spout all kinda crap. Opinions are stuffs to which every human is entitled, but when you elevate them to the status of unimpeachable facts that may not be questioned or debated, they are no longer valid. Few of us, if any, have any knowledge of these players beyond what we see of them on the telly or in the stadia, but like the press we are all quick to knock, we don't allow objectivity to get in the way of the "opinions" we seek to canvass. Wenger gets paid the fantastic salary he gets because he knows better than us. He sees the players in training, he knows their strenghts and weaknesses, he took a decision most of us do not necessarily agree with and it backfired, but eh, big deal, its his job to take those decisions and he has been more right than wrong over the years. Amos, thanks for always sticking by your principles, I completely agree with you on the team selection against the Chavs.
deledudu
No van Persie for the Old Trafford leg next Wednesday. Gutted. Now THAT is something to mope about. We are CURSED.
julieloveshenry4ever
No van Persie for the Old Trafford leg next Wednesday. Gutted. Now THAT is something to mope about. We are CURSED.
julieloveshenry4ever
Julie, I have to be honest. I have no idea why you come here, you're patently not interested in discussing anything to do with the team. Any point made by anyone is met with a terse "grow up, you're not a true supporter, everything is wonderful and anyone who tries to analyse deeper is a moron." To say we didn't give a toss about the Liverpool game is a lie. I did and if any of the players didn't, then I hope that was their last game for the club.
Little Dutch
Julie, I have to be honest. I have no idea why you come here, you're patently not interested in discussing anything to do with the team. Any point made by anyone is met with a terse "grow up, you're not a true supporter, everything is wonderful and anyone who tries to analyse deeper is a moron." To say we didn't give a toss about the Liverpool game is a lie. I did and if any of the players didn't, then I hope that was their last game for the club.
Little Dutch
C'mon LD! It could be much worse, you could be a spud and have to deal with the truly moronic comments on their sites.
deledudu
C'mon LD! It could be much worse, you could be a spud and have to deal with the truly moronic comments on their sites.
deledudu
LD, i think the players cared u can see that in their reactions they were caught in the middle , they wanted to win the game, yet they didnt want to give man utd a chance to rest their players
Gooner SA
LD, i think the players cared u can see that in their reactions they were caught in the middle , they wanted to win the game, yet they didnt want to give man utd a chance to rest their players
Gooner SA
LD I have been saying exactly the same thing on every blog I've been on for the last 48 hours, had we played AA against Chelsea we would have been murdered, he gave NO cover for Gibbs at Anfield and Chelsea would have exploited that much better than Liverpool.
Armory
LD I have been saying exactly the same thing on every blog I've been on for the last 48 hours, had we played AA against Chelsea we would have been murdered, he gave NO cover for Gibbs at Anfield and Chelsea would have exploited that much better than Liverpool.
Armory
Julie maybe we should always look on the bright side of life and make people happy. Look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the magical man from Happy Land! And I live in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane!
paul_ownz
In case you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic"
paul_ownz
Julie maybe we should always look on the bright side of life and make people happy. Look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the magical man from Happy Land! And I live in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane!
paul_ownz
In case you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic"
paul_ownz
I have NEVER called any here a moron LD. I wouldn't do such a thing. Yet youthink you can clearly tell a loyal fan like me that I shouldn't be on here. That's is VERY hurtful. So thanks for that swipe. And Paul- why do you think I wouldn't understand sarcasm - which is very ugly by the way. Why am I being attacked for supporting my team and supporting a manager that any other club would bite us off at the shoulder to get? You came down on me like a ton of bricks in Feb for saying that we would make top 4 and look how things have turned around. There is absolutely no reason to be so nasty to people. I stood up for PG when people on this site attacked him and hounded him out. Butif I'm not wanted here either then thanks for that. When did positivity and perspective become a crime? Well ok you win. I'm off. I have a feeling they could win the CL and it still wouldn't be good enough for some. I have loved being on the site but abusiveness is uncalled for.
julieloveshenry4ever
I have NEVER called any here a moron LD. I wouldn't do such a thing. Yet youthink you can clearly tell a loyal fan like me that I shouldn't be on here. That's is VERY hurtful. So thanks for that swipe. And Paul- why do you think I wouldn't understand sarcasm - which is very ugly by the way. Why am I being attacked for supporting my team and supporting a manager that any other club would bite us off at the shoulder to get? You came down on me like a ton of bricks in Feb for saying that we would make top 4 and look how things have turned around. There is absolutely no reason to be so nasty to people. I stood up for PG when people on this site attacked him and hounded him out. Butif I'm not wanted here either then thanks for that. When did positivity and perspective become a crime? Well ok you win. I'm off. I have a feeling they could win the CL and it still wouldn't be good enough for some. I have loved being on the site but abusiveness is uncalled for.
julieloveshenry4ever
And everybody's opinion is valid. But clearly some are more equal than others. I still am shocked at how I was told: "I don't know why you come on here." from two of you that was a complete and unnecessary mauling. Wellif there is no place for positivity then I guess I really am out in the cold. Thanks for that again. Way to go to hurt somebody's feelings.
julieloveshenry4ever
And everybody's opinion is valid. But clearly some are more equal than others. I still am shocked at how I was told: "I don't know why you come on here." from two of you that was a complete and unnecessary mauling. Wellif there is no place for positivity then I guess I really am out in the cold. Thanks for that again. Way to go to hurt somebody's feelings.
julieloveshenry4ever
Well said Julie!
norfolk dumpling
Well said Julie!
norfolk dumpling
Firstly, I do believe the team cared, absolutely. I saw the looks on their faces at the final whistle. I cared and so did the 3,000 others who made the journey up on a Tuesday night. I don't think there were any ulterior motives on the part of the team, the best preparation for the United game is for us to win and I think the players knew that. Secondly, Julie, I did not say there wasn't room for positivity, but my bone is you don't seem to want to give any kind of opinion, every other thread at the moment sees you interject with "why are you discussing this? Don't discuss this." The forum thread on the Liverpool game is a case in point, people are happily and rationally debating the whys and wherefores and you come on asking for the thread to be closed, "it was a good point, move on." It was a 4-4 draw where our record signing scored 4 goals having just been left out of an F.A. Cup semi in which we took the lead three times, one of those in injury time and we didn't win. It stands to reason there's lots to talk about. Nothing on this thread has been hysterical and beyond reason at all, some think it was a mistake to leave Arshavin out, some don't, some do but saw why AW did. There was no need to interject and accuse everyone of being closet scousers for debating a reasonable point quite sensibly. That's what a site like this is all about. If you have a different view, positive or negative, put it across because it's valuable. But lately you don't seem to put any point across other than to deride people. We all know what a great job this manager has done, nobody is calling for his head, but he is not infallable and will make mistakes. It is not incorrect for us to lament them, Wenger knows all too well that's the sort of job he is in and that's why he is paid so well. I'm grateful to the man but I don't owe him anything, I don't have to join a suicide cult in his honour. About a quarter of my annual salary is spent following this team and a good deal of that ends up in his pocket so it does cut two ways. PG was not hounded out of this thread, in fact, check the "you can't handle the truth" thread under transfer rumours and you'll see the hounding was strictly one way. There's no need for the pouting either, I dare say there are some of us on this thread who didn't appreciate being called closet Scousers or members of the Wenger out brigade for simply expressing small dissatisfaction with the way the team have played.
Little Dutch
Firstly, I do believe the team cared, absolutely. I saw the looks on their faces at the final whistle. I cared and so did the 3,000 others who made the journey up on a Tuesday night. I don't think there were any ulterior motives on the part of the team, the best preparation for the United game is for us to win and I think the players knew that. Secondly, Julie, I did not say there wasn't room for positivity, but my bone is you don't seem to want to give any kind of opinion, every other thread at the moment sees you interject with "why are you discussing this? Don't discuss this." The forum thread on the Liverpool game is a case in point, people are happily and rationally debating the whys and wherefores and you come on asking for the thread to be closed, "it was a good point, move on." It was a 4-4 draw where our record signing scored 4 goals having just been left out of an F.A. Cup semi in which we took the lead three times, one of those in injury time and we didn't win. It stands to reason there's lots to talk about. Nothing on this thread has been hysterical and beyond reason at all, some think it was a mistake to leave Arshavin out, some don't, some do but saw why AW did. There was no need to interject and accuse everyone of being closet scousers for debating a reasonable point quite sensibly. That's what a site like this is all about. If you have a different view, positive or negative, put it across because it's valuable. But lately you don't seem to put any point across other than to deride people. We all know what a great job this manager has done, nobody is calling for his head, but he is not infallable and will make mistakes. It is not incorrect for us to lament them, Wenger knows all too well that's the sort of job he is in and that's why he is paid so well. I'm grateful to the man but I don't owe him anything, I don't have to join a suicide cult in his honour. About a quarter of my annual salary is spent following this team and a good deal of that ends up in his pocket so it does cut two ways. PG was not hounded out of this thread, in fact, check the "you can't handle the truth" thread under transfer rumours and you'll see the hounding was strictly one way. There's no need for the pouting either, I dare say there are some of us on this thread who didn't appreciate being called closet Scousers or members of the Wenger out brigade for simply expressing small dissatisfaction with the way the team have played.
Little Dutch
Julie dear, last time I checked, its a site for all gooners. We may like, agree or disagree with your opinions, but I doubt if anyone has the powers to bar you from the site just because your views are unpopular. LD might have been a tad harsh in his reaction as well, but its all a product of the passion we all feel for our club. How about we all kiss and make up? That'll be some party!
deledudu
Julie dear, last time I checked, its a site for all gooners. We may like, agree or disagree with your opinions, but I doubt if anyone has the powers to bar you from the site just because your views are unpopular. LD might have been a tad harsh in his reaction as well, but its all a product of the passion we all feel for our club. How about we all kiss and make up? That'll be some party!
deledudu
To be honest with you i was using a sketch by Homer from the Simpsons where he also says "In case you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic". Where he was obviously and blatantly being sarcastic to which Marge says " well duh". But jokes aside, it seems you are happy to criticize other people for discussing an oppinion on a blog in a rather attacking kind of way. Telling people they talk tosh, to get a perspective, we belong to the wenger out brigade just for questioning some of his decisions. I personally thought it was strange he left out Arshavin but at the same time thought he knows his players better than me and trust his judgment. I still respect peoples oppinions whether i agree with them or not, which you dont seem to.
paul_ownz
To be honest with you i was using a sketch by Homer from the Simpsons where he also says "In case you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic". Where he was obviously and blatantly being sarcastic to which Marge says " well duh". But jokes aside, it seems you are happy to criticize other people for discussing an oppinion on a blog in a rather attacking kind of way. Telling people they talk tosh, to get a perspective, we belong to the wenger out brigade just for questioning some of his decisions. I personally thought it was strange he left out Arshavin but at the same time thought he knows his players better than me and trust his judgment. I still respect peoples oppinions whether i agree with them or not, which you dont seem to.
paul_ownz
I am utterly astonished. I READ everybody's opinions on this site and I do not expect people to agree with me at all. That is so not nice to tell someone that all their posts are horrible and contribute nothing. I never called anyone a closet scouser. My point was that surely the match result on Tuesday was far more negative for Liverpool than Arsenal and I thought that the analysis would have been more relevant to the consequences for their season. I have never DERIDED anyone exceptfor Spurs who come here to launch abuse at Arsenal. I don't go to their site and don't put anybody else down. I just want to be left in peace but it's very uncomfortable to know that now each of my posts is being looked for and marked down. Very very harsh- I am stunned. You are very arrogant to think that your opinion is right and mine is wrong. All I want is to be positive. I am happy to read everybody's opinion. Telling somebody to get off the site for no reason is so not fair. Harsh and I am feeling shell-shocked this morning. Can't believe your analysis of me. If I came across as being derisive, I'd be horrified and would apologize unreservedly.
julieloveshenry4ever
I am utterly astonished. I READ everybody's opinions on this site and I do not expect people to agree with me at all. That is so not nice to tell someone that all their posts are horrible and contribute nothing. I never called anyone a closet scouser. My point was that surely the match result on Tuesday was far more negative for Liverpool than Arsenal and I thought that the analysis would have been more relevant to the consequences for their season. I have never DERIDED anyone exceptfor Spurs who come here to launch abuse at Arsenal. I don't go to their site and don't put anybody else down. I just want to be left in peace but it's very uncomfortable to know that now each of my posts is being looked for and marked down. Very very harsh- I am stunned. You are very arrogant to think that your opinion is right and mine is wrong. All I want is to be positive. I am happy to read everybody's opinion. Telling somebody to get off the site for no reason is so not fair. Harsh and I am feeling shell-shocked this morning. Can't believe your analysis of me. If I came across as being derisive, I'd be horrified and would apologize unreservedly.
julieloveshenry4ever
The old boys network kicks in again......have another G&T and a pat on the back. Rah, rah, rah!
LondonGooner
The old boys network kicks in again......have another G&T and a pat on the back. Rah, rah, rah!
LondonGooner
No- fair is fair. Of LD and Paul are correct in their analysis of my posts then I have no right to be on here. I am really really sorry if any post of mine offended anybody please believe me on that. I am going to go through them to re-read them and I will be my own harshest judge if I have been too hasty. Good luck for the rest of the season everyone- I've really enjoyed Vital Arsenal and everyone on it. Apologies again from Julie. Take care!
julieloveshenry4ever
No- fair is fair. Of LD and Paul are correct in their analysis of my posts then I have no right to be on here. I am really really sorry if any post of mine offended anybody please believe me on that. I am going to go through them to re-read them and I will be my own harshest judge if I have been too hasty. Good luck for the rest of the season everyone- I've really enjoyed Vital Arsenal and everyone on it. Apologies again from Julie. Take care!
julieloveshenry4ever
Nobody said they were right and you were wrong Julie, in fact, that was the whole point, that nobody has the right to say that. There's no need for the dramatics, nobody is saying get off the site, nobody is psychoanalysing. All of our posts are deconstructed to some degree, that's kind of the point. If you have a positive opinion put it across, there's no need to ask for people to stop discussing things and no need to over react to small points of contention and put everyone across as super negative, hell, on the forum you called Amos negative and everybody knows he's a regular Johnny sunshine :-) I'm not one for the whole "I'm positive, I'm negative" kind of vibe, I'm in the "look at the situation and give your opinion accordingly" school- ********* to being positive and ********* to being negative, be real first. It's really frustrating to be constantly pigeon holed- one way or the other.
Little Dutch
Nobody said they were right and you were wrong Julie, in fact, that was the whole point, that nobody has the right to say that. There's no need for the dramatics, nobody is saying get off the site, nobody is psychoanalysing. All of our posts are deconstructed to some degree, that's kind of the point. If you have a positive opinion put it across, there's no need to ask for people to stop discussing things and no need to over react to small points of contention and put everyone across as super negative, hell, on the forum you called Amos negative and everybody knows he's a regular Johnny sunshine :-) I'm not one for the whole "I'm positive, I'm negative" kind of vibe, I'm in the "look at the situation and give your opinion accordingly" school- ********* to being positive and ********* to being negative, be real first. It's really frustrating to be constantly pigeon holed- one way or the other.
Little Dutch
Sorry.
julieloveshenry4ever
Sorry.
julieloveshenry4ever
Hi LD- if you come back again I just want to say sorry. Am appalled if my posts came across as trying to stamp all over intelligent debate whatever the angle. I honestly do respect everybody's opinion on the site. I will hold my hands up- I have always been a bit defensive when it comes to Arsenal. I think it stems from reading a lot of anti-Arsenal stuff in press. I will be very careful in future. I enjoy ALL threads actually. Is it ok to make up now?
julieloveshenry4ever
Hi LD- if you come back again I just want to say sorry. Am appalled if my posts came across as trying to stamp all over intelligent debate whatever the angle. I honestly do respect everybody's opinion on the site. I will hold my hands up- I have always been a bit defensive when it comes to Arsenal. I think it stems from reading a lot of anti-Arsenal stuff in press. I will be very careful in future. I enjoy ALL threads actually. Is it ok to make up now?
julieloveshenry4ever
C'mon Julie, don't pull this technique with me. I grew up with four sisters, I know this strategy inside out :-) No make up required, just keep giving your opinion and ********* to anyone that doesn't agree :-)
Little Dutch
C'mon Julie, don't pull this technique with me. I grew up with four sisters, I know this strategy inside out :-) No make up required, just keep giving your opinion and ********* to anyone that doesn't agree :-)
Little Dutch
I think we should just move on to be honest. I almost thought before that you were genuinely upset at what you perceived to be an attack on you, but your last post suggests otherwise. Being over apologetic does not match up with how you usually post and reeks of p***take. Lets just put this one behind.
paul_ownz
I think we should just move on to be honest. I almost thought before that you were genuinely upset at what you perceived to be an attack on you, but your last post suggests otherwise. Being over apologetic does not match up with how you usually post and reeks of p***take. Lets just put this one behind.
paul_ownz
Thanks LD. I wasn't pulling anything- HONEST! No I looked back at some posts and I WAS out of line. But cheers! Phew. I am glad that's over. Nice article; well-written!
julieloveshenry4ever
Thanks LD. I wasn't pulling anything- HONEST! No I looked back at some posts and I WAS out of line. But cheers! Phew. I am glad that's over. Nice article; well-written!
julieloveshenry4ever
Paul. I actually was SINCERELY upset at the harshness because it was so unexpected. But I decided to look back at some posts and thought- actually that was far too hasty- so I felt I should apologize. I never meant to ****take anyone with my posts. But I know the difference between right and wrong and I was brought up to believe that if you are caught in the wrong then you should admit it and say sorry. Am still smarting- believe me. But the difference now is that I know I deserved it so I changed tack right and quick.
julieloveshenry4ever
Paul. I actually was SINCERELY upset at the harshness because it was so unexpected. But I decided to look back at some posts and thought- actually that was far too hasty- so I felt I should apologize. I never meant to ****take anyone with my posts. But I know the difference between right and wrong and I was brought up to believe that if you are caught in the wrong then you should admit it and say sorry. Am still smarting- believe me. But the difference now is that I know I deserved it so I changed tack right and quick.
julieloveshenry4ever
Ok now. Can someone break out the Champagne glasses now? Enough with all the kissy stuff already!
deledudu
Ok now. Can someone break out the Champagne glasses now? Enough with all the kissy stuff already!
deledudu
 

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