Arsenal News 24/7Writer: Rocky7 
Date:Wednesday May 27 2009
Time: 1:37PM
UK time is: 10:59:32
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Who Has To Die Before UEFA Will Act?
The Champions League final is supposed to be a celebration of football, a meeting between to two finest European teams of the season, watched by billions it should be the climax to the footballing calendar.
However, the decision to host this year's final in Rome means there was always going to be thought of violence bubbling under the surface.
Platini, Blatter and their cronies would have you believe that their first concern is for the safety of the fans, and that increased security means the possibility of trouble will be minimal, arguments have even been put forward that because an Italian team is not contesting the final that everything would run smoothly.
But here we are again, only a couple of months after Arsenal fans were attacked and stabbed in Rome, a Manchester United fan has now suffered the same fate. Fortunately for Mr Wheldon his injuries were minor and he will be able to take his seat for the match tonight.
Everyone knew it would happen, but it will be dismissed as the victim wasn't seriously hurt. It appears that the powers that be are perfectly willing to wait for a fatality before taking action against this extremely apparent problem.
It's a shame that the events of Bradford, Heysel and Hillsbourgh, even though unrelated, haven't taught the governing bodies that action will provide much better results and prevent such tragic loss of life with much more efficiency than reaction..
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Your Comments
The cynic in me believes that had England had all the knife attacks that continously happen in Italy that Platini wouldn't just have his way of not having English teams in the final, but there wouldn't be any in the competion at all.
Rocky7
By all accounts the people of Rome have done their very best to host a trouble free final and I feel very sorry for them that these thugs have once again harmed the reputation of their country. If these incidents had happend on these shores we'd be f*@ked, I cannot even begin to talk about how stupid the FA are to attempt getting 2018. FIFA and UEFA are the only ones yet to benefit from the Russian oil money (Russia are also in the running for 2018) and must be praying the United fans riot tonight.
iceman10
Hmmm, the site poll isn't the best, you should include players from young player of the year in it (Nasri, Denilson and Song all had better seasons than Eduardo or Clichy for example). Eboue will walk it, and I feel sorry for Silvestre and Adebayor. A blank space has more votes than them.
ArsenalFan01
AF - I only have the ability to put 14 options in. so ran two seperate polls. Not ideal but the best way of doing it I feel. Thanks for the input. Back to topic!
Rocky7
Well said! But I think the Italian police did well tonight! Not that that excuses what happened when you played Roma! But yes, I really hope it doesn't come to "that" and that something is changed...England has changed, rioting and holoiganism is still a problem, but compared to what it used to be.......
haigh_for_7
Is there any proof it was a Roma or Lazio Ultra, or even an Italian? How do you know it was not one of the Boixos Nois?
Ozi Gooner
By the sounds of it (from media reports) it was Barca fans, so it seems this outrage is a bit unwarranted, considering those same Barca fans would likely have gone to the game, and been violent, wherever it may have been held.
Ozi Gooner
All seems a bit too convinient for me Ozi.
Rocky7
I have it from a reliable source that it was a right wing hooligan group of Barca fans, who a few of have also been arrested. Believe what you want, but English and Turkish fans have an even worse relationship than English and Italians, and I don't recall any Turks stabbing Liverpool fans in Istanbul, it's just not a normal thing for Ultra's to do, as much as the press in England and Italy might like you to believe it. Your moral outrage is what they're aiming for, it's what sells them papers.
Ozi Gooner
The same reliable source that The Sun, The Mail and FromTheTerrace get their news from? For your information, several Liverpool fans were stabbed in Istanbul, the pictures were everywhere, try researching the subject before making ill judged statements. English fans died when Leeds played there, or is that conveniently forgotten? No, I know, made up just to sell newspapers. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-41868462.html http://ballhype.com/article/the_miracle_of_istanbul_part_two/ I could go on and on about the various incidents whenever an English team arrives in Rome or Turkey, but everyone already knows that...except one. When English fans get inot a punch up we're branded the worst hooligans in the world, how many stabbings and deaths do you see at our games week in week out? none, can you say the same about those 2 cities?
LondonGooner
Well yes, you can say the same about them, cos even though there are stabbings and deaths over football in Rome and Istanbul to often for comfort, it is far from a weekly thing. Actually, the only football fan to die anywhere in Italy this year/season did so falling from a stand while not involved in any violence at all. I know about Leeds, that's why there's the bad relationship to begin with ;) The source I've got the info from that it was Barca's hooligan group was for one, the Roman police (who have nothing to gain from lying, they hate the Ultras as much as you, if not more), the other a Barca fan who's involved in their Ultra's scene.
Ozi Gooner
I guess I'll just have to take your word for that Ozi.
Rocky7
The day I take the Italian authorities word for anything will be the day i'm fed through a tube......Rome police and authrorities have EVERY reason to defelct attention from their own people. They would get sanctions against them from FIFA and UEFA if it turns out to be their own. It gives them every incentive to twist the truth. So you think because someone doesn't die every season then it's all ok? Your attitude seems very flippant regarding the safety of English travelling supporters going abroad. We haven't made any of these up, what about the Roma fans who stromed the Arsenal mini bus and stabbed several fans....don't see that in London too often.
LondonGooner
I'm not being flippant, merely pulling you up for blatant hyperbole. It's a terrible thing to happen, where ever it happens, and yes, it is undeniable that Roma, in particular has a problem. But when all the evidence points to it not being citizens of Roma, but opposition fans, then your rationality on the issue becomes questionable (even if it is emotionally understandable). Also, speaking of the Roman cops and them 'covering up' the real perpetrator's of the violence in this case, is ridiculous, you act like you have some great understanding of the city of Roma and it's people, when clearly you're merely speculating. Do you remember how your police acted towards British hools in the 70's and 80's, hardly trying to sweep them under the rug were they? More name and shame, as publicly as possible. Italian police are no different. I did also notice you completely ignored the part of my post about a Barca fan who knows the people being one of my sources, convenient. Anyways, believe what you will, everybody does, you've got no more reason to believe me than I have to believe your sensationalist news papers looking to blame a dago for whatever they can get away with.
Ozi Gooner
"But when all the evidence points to it not being citizens of Roma" What evidence, your word for it? Excuse me if i don't take it as gospel. Fact is they have a bloody history and that shows no signs of stopping in the near future, that is no hyperbole, that is the facts speaking for themselevs. I didn't ignore your comment abotu a "friend" being a right wing ultra Barca fan, says mroe about your friends than anything else.......you have your view and I have mine, having watched football in Rome i think I am well placed to offer an opinion, have you? I'll hazard a guess at probably not. I have seen with my own eyes, you can take your "sources" word for it, laters.
LondonGooner
Evidence as in police, the actual arrests of Barca fans for the attack, media reports, etc. Don't let any of that stop your paranoia though. Nobody is arguing that they have a history of stabbings or that it will stop soon, i'm only arguing Rocky's claim that the final should've been taken away from Roma, based on the evidence that suggest the stabbing was carried out by Barca fans, not Roma/Lazio fans, and so would likely have occurred where ever the game was played.
Ozi Gooner
I don't think the final should have been taking away given the news of these attacks, whoever carried them out ..... I don't think it should have been played there in the first place. The stabbings of Arsenal fans this season and United fans last should have seen to that. Should you be correct about the identities of the attackers then that merely makes the article poorly timed ..... but the point still remains.
Rocky7
I would disgaree on the basis that the fact that it was Barca fans means that UEFA were right to assume that any game not involving Roma was not inherently a safety threat to travelling fans. From what you're argument seems to bes, maybe they should not allow Roma in to, or to host games at home, in the CL.
Ozi Gooner
Just because they got lucky doesn't mean they will do so again. Is it worth the risk? Not to me.
Rocky7
Don't fundamentally disagree. Just think that it would make much more sense to ban home games there than a showpiece final that is unlikely to feature Roma
Ozi Gooner
Don't fundamentally disagree. Just think that it would make much more sense to ban home games there than a showpiece final that is unlikely to feature Roma
Ozi Gooner
Ozi - I read reports that four Italians have been arrested after stabbing an American believing him to be a United fan. Looks like things didn't run that smoothly after all eh?
Rocky7
Have not read that, will have a look, link??? If that's so I will happily stand corrected.
Ozi Gooner
This whole article looks a bit FUD in hindsight. I've also read various sources that said the stabbing of a ManU fan was by a Spanish national- so let's just assume the Italian police are complicit in this coverup. Finally, 'stabbings' is the plural of stabbing- one Arsenal fan was stabbed in the leg in the bus incident in Rome and to use the plural is redtop fear-mongering. That said nobody should be stabbed or injured in any other way just trying to watch a football match- why no mention here that two English fans were arrested for attacking bystanders in Rome? Any stats on how many ticketless English fans are involved in violence peripheral to the games at hand?
elbondo
Elbondo - Man Utd fan/s were stabbed the year before. Hence the plural. And there were two stabbings at this years final, one incident was cause by Barca fans, the other by four Italians. The fighting you mentions happens often in all countries, it's an ugly side of football, but when you mix football, beer and some yobbos the outcome is usually the same. Unfortunatly.
Rocky7
"i'm only arguing Rocky's claim that the final should've been taken away from Roma" Ozi Gooner - They shouldn’t of had it in the first place. Crap, dilapidated stadium, Italian football and it's officials are as corrupt as they come and they are basically rewarding them by staging a final there in the city where the 2 teams have some of the most hardcore tossers as supporters and season in season out commit atrocities against other teams fans. Yeah, great idea lets have the final in Rome. That’s not paranoia, that’s common sense, it's a great thing, trust me!
LondonGooner
Not so long ago it was your country that had the worst football fans and then there was a lot of bitching from your side about how the ordinary fans were getting unfairly treated because of the actions of a dangerous minority, how about a little empathy, self-reflection and perspective for the 99.8% of decent citizens in Roma. Also, last years UEFA Cup final was hosted in Glasgow, quite possibly a more dangerous football city than Roma. Numerous deaths have been related directly to football games there, they're a much more regular occurence than in Roma (even if the actual stabbings are probably equally common, at least the Roman's have the forethought to generally do it below the belt - before you argue that, read this article by Marcotti; [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8068088.stm] - it's even got it's own name; 'puncicate'). Just this week a bunch of Rangers fans celebrated winning their first title in 4 years by putting a young Celtic fan to death outside a pub in Parkheed. Where was the good old fashioned English moral outrage last year??? It's all a bit convenient to argue it when it's only yourselves concerned, but their are many, many cities in the world where going to a football game is dangerous business, if they stopped giving them to cities based on that don't expect any showpieces at Wembley in the near future, what with your pandemic knife crime and all.
Ozi Gooner
"Also, last years UEFA Cup final was hosted in Glasgow, quite possibly a more dangerous football city than Roma." So because it is "quite possibly more dangerous" it is less suitable? Get reall listen to yourself, that isnt an argument that is an opinion. Im telling you what has gone on in Rome that we all know of and that is dangerous if you follow football there. No one here has said we are holier than though, no one has said we are angels as football fans, but you are hell bent on comparing the two in a futile pi**ing contest, good luck with that. It's boring......
LondonGooner
The last word from me......for someone who has been to (how many games Ozi Gooner?) you would clearly have to rely on media reports and the news as you cannot be there, logically speaking. "By the sounds of it (from media reports) it was Barca fans," or "Anyways, believe what you will, everybody does, you've got no more reason to believe me than I have to believe your sensationalist news papers" remember these quotes? How DO you find out match reports and other such details in the world of football? Telepathy or the media you so freely deride?v fact is I attend games, you don't I see with my own eyes, you rely on media reports, end of story as far as aI am concerned. the media aren't to be trusted you say yet that is the ONLY way you can find out what is going on......thanks.
LondonGooner
First, abotu Glasgow, that isn't an opinion, that is a fact. Celtic - Rangers is easily one of the most dangerous games in football, and there are way more deaths associated with the Old Firm than the Eternal City derby. So, you still didn't answer my question, where was the moral outrage last year??? Second, for somebody whose got the time to read back and take out sections from all of my posts you sure do read them selectively. As I've said, numerous times, some of my info came from the media (in this case all yours did) and some of it came from first hand account, the exact something you're talking about being so important, yet in this particular case don't have.
Ozi Gooner
*sorry, a first hand account, when it comes through me it's second hand
Ozi Gooner
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