Wenger Blasts Cheating Chelsea

well... I'm too lazy to post my comment on vital blue side .. but may someone ask them .. or if any of them stumbled here .. What happen if your "uncle Roman" decided to quit playing around and leave you guys?

Rocky, blasts? Bit too "Sun" for my liking ;-)

He's happy to give his opinion on the state of the game, and is anyone really surprised? He has been advocating the self financial dependance of football clubs for pretty much the whole decade. Replace Chelsea with any other bankrolled club and the sentiment is the same. I don't think it's anything about Chelsea, more a comment on the state of the game as a whole. The chavs are just an example.

Of course the Chavs will survive when Abramovich goes. Just as Blackburn and Leeds have survived when they were no longer able to fund their losses. But unless you can generate a profit from normal activities - or find someone else to cover your losses - you'll have to adjust your spending in balance with your revenues. If you can succesfully generate enough profitable revenues through normal commercial activites you can continue to compete. As yet there is nothing in Chelsea's financial performance to show that will happen anytime soon without reducing your spending substantially. Unfortunately there is no magic that can change that inevitable economic reality.

We were here long before Abramovich rocked up, and we'll be here long after he's gone (which, by the way, I don't expect to be in this decade, or the one after that...). Roman has already said he'll pass the club onto his son eventually, and the bloke's been a man of his word from what I've seen in the past six-and-a-half years. Just a quick question - will Wenger still be harping on about 'self-sufficiency, etc' when either Usmanov (who, by the way, is a million times more shady than even the most ridiculous Abramovich rumours) or Kroenke take over and start flashing the cash?

and daspecial1, in all likelihood, yes, he will. If (more likely, when) Kroenke takes over, we will still be a self-sustainable club. We will just have a different resource upon which we can call, although I doubt we will do so much while Arsene's in charge, and club profits would be shared in a very slightly different manner. I doubt Kroenke would be 'flashing the cash' as you put it. The main benefit we'll get from him will be his American links and his previous expertise in setting up successful sports franchises. From the outside, we'll probably see very little change, but with increased profits, so when he decides to leave, we'll be in a better position than the one where we started. I think we all accept that Usmanov is a slimy ********, and I'm not going to contemplate what would happen if he takes over, in fact I'd rather like Silent Stan to just buy us now so Usmanov can't.

wtf? wenger really needs to shut his mouth! he is not always right and if the club belongs to the fans then your club belongs to the most commercial and fickle fan known to man kind.

Thanks for your insight dwight schrute. He needs to shut up because he's not always right? The whole world would be mute.

best*

And Wenger wouldn't dispute that you have been the best team so far. He said he agrees with what the table shows. As for the 'mind games', which I personally don't think were intended to do anything but express an opinion or, in the case of Wenger's response after the Chelsea loss, lift his own team, Ancelotti certainly whinced when Arsene's prediction about Chelsea dropping points was mentioned in his press conference a couple of days ago. I don't think it will really harm Chelsea, if anything it will spur them on, but it has irritated Ancelotti a bit.

Hardly cheating - just shifting debt from one form to another. Why we commenting on Chelsea anyway, should be just getting our nuts down and doing the job at hand. Wenger answers direct questions posed at him and this can bring all sorts of accusations at him, unfortunately he can't refused to answer the question.

Of course he can refuse to answer the question. A simple 'it's not any of my business what Chelsea get up to, I'm focusing solely on Arsenal matters' is all it takes.

gunnerkid107 - You prefer the way Arsenal is run, but you forget that we've had to catch up with the likes of you, United and Liverpool in such a short space of time. That wouldn't have been possible without the investment into the club that Abramovich offered. We've caught up with the rest of you (perhaps even exceeded a few of you) and now it's all able putting our house in order to make sure we can stay at the top of the game for years and years to come.

Catching up with us, United and Liverpool may not have been possible in such a short space of time without Abramovic, but if that is the scale of ambition the club has, then it should set out a plan of how to meet it, ensuring long-term success. Aston Villa have a great chance of reaching the top 4 this season, with Liverpool possibly dropping out. They have kept their club in a healthy, sustainable position and have not spent excessively in order to create this opportunity. They simply created a good plan and had the sense and patience to stick with it. If they do make the top 4 they will be able to invest the CL money as they wish, and could instate themselves as a regular top 4/5 team, before drawing up a new plan and building for more. That's what football is about, not just having a nice thought and then spending someone else's money to make it come true. That's not to say what you did was cheating, it's just wasn't really done in a very sporting spirit, and seeing as we're in a sporting business, Arsene labelled it "half-cheating".

He's asked a simple question and he's answered it. He always answers the questions and always to the detriment of Chelsea Football Club. He takes the plaudits but doe'snt give any, the most recent example being the 0-3 mauling Chelsea gave your lot at your place .He even went on to say Drogba doe'snt do much. Our first goal was our first shot on goal?? Failing to notice his side couldnt get around our defence. Who's was the home side, mind you with 20 minutes to go there were more Chelsea fans in the stadium than Arses.And Rocky, I and most Chelsea fans would not give him any grief if he shut his mouth, It would make a pleasant change.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. Arsenal are being run to increase value to the shareholders. Whichever of the 2 professional investors takes over it will have cost them in excess of £600m based on the current trading price of £9,000 per share. NONE of which will have gone into the club but will have gone to a few already rich individuals. Arsenal is not being run on a fiscally prudent basis it is being run for profit (over £130m in the last 4 years with a net profit even from player trading). It makes too much money and invests too little into the team. It is being run this way for a few shareholders to maximise their investment. If its going to cost an owner in excess of £600m at least at Chelsea a huge part of this went into the club and as a fan I know what I would prefer.

Thats just total nonsense Mr Reasonable. An awful lot of money has gone into AFC. It has built up the assets substantially with a state of the art training ground complex and stadium. Chelsea spends £40m or so more a year on wages than ManU or Arsenal. How is that going into the club? Much of the money that Abramovich has put into Chelsea has gone into the pockets of agents - and purchasing baby Bentleys and houses in Cobham - a relatively small proportion of its revenues has really gone into the club itself. The shareholders of Arsenal take nothing out of the club it all goes back into the business in creating efficient assets that generate more investment resources for the club.

"How funny is the title, "Wenger Blasts Cheating Chelsea". Let me tell you kids, that voyeur is in no position to blast Chelsea. He is a nursery teacher at best he can blast is those kids. What a retard and what a joke you arse fans are. Keyser Soze" It's rather ironic really... I like the name though, great film.

Thanks Amos :)

I would say Arsene doing a great job with limited budget. But he comes out with a ludicrous comment about Chelsea week in week out. Its better to focus on your football and appreciate others too when they play well. Thats certainly 1 area Carlo has been better than Arsene, SAF and Jose too. Now with these comments Carlo also started to react. I would and perhaps we all would prefer the contest in the game rather than these derisory comments.

Mourinho spent an extra 200 million quid on a squad which was already bought for over 200 million quid. Then he won two league titles playing a brand of boring football which was accurately described as "**** on a stick". He did'nt even reach a CL final with that expensively assembled squad. Wow, some achievement. Ranieri would probably have won the league himself given one more year by Abramovich. Heck, even Chavram Grant came within a whisker of winning a league and CL double in his first and only year in charge. The squad Chelsea had was so good that almost any top rung manager could have managed it reasonably well.

The outstanding manager the Chavs had in their history was not Mourinho but John Neal who rescued them from the precipice of ruin in the 80's. the majority of the Chavs today may not even have heard of John Neal.

Amos. The money that has been ploughed back into the club has been spent on assets such as the ground which generate an even greater revenue. Sorry I was unclear in my earlier post, by into the club, I meant the team. Yes we spend too much money on player wages but it has been done to try and provide a better team which as a fan is all I care about. You have a blatant need for a couple of class performers but wont buy them. Why? Because money spent on a player has to be amortised over the 3/4 years of the contract, reducing profit (and share price). Money spent on the ground is amortised over 50 years and significantly increases profits and share price. My contention is that the Board are doing fantastically at running a business and enhancing shareholder value not fan satisfaction and winning trophies. The board's great fortune is that Wenger seems to keep pulling off the magic trick of regular champions league without any investment in the team for years.

The problem with your argument Mr Reasonable, is that the money that has been ploughed into providing you with a better team is that without the mechanism to generate greater profitable revenue on a continuing basis that can only be short term. If your team is entirely dependent on the largesse of one man then the success of the club and thereby the team ends when the largesse does. The money spent on the ground is amortised over 25 years not 50 but the flaw in your point is that the stadium now generates a revenue above and beyond its cost in each year now that the investment stage has passed. This increases our ability to spend more on the team on a continuing basis over the longer term. You can only do so for as long as someone is prepared to underwrite the losses. Your focus on shareholder benefits is financially ignorant. Of course share value will increase if you have a business that increases it's value - that's the whole point. It provides the potential to raise capital or debt on far better terms to expand a developing business. Its entirely wrong to say we don't invest in our teams - over the last few years only ManU and Chelsea have invested more than us but our capacity to invest in the team is increasing while ManU's and, unless RA will keep forking out, Chelsea's will diminish in relative terms. It's a simple matter of the difference between the business that is looking for enduring success over the longer term and one that is betting heavily on the short term. In the end a successful team requires a successful club and to be a successful club you also need to be a successful business. Most fans while disappointed with the lack of trophies in the short term understand where the club has come from and can see the what is developing. For that reason the club has been able to deliver fan satisfaction despite the lack of trophies whereas your owner sacked the manager who won trophies because he couldn't deliver fan satisfaction on a wide enough scale. Every team always has a 'blatant need for a couple of class performers' now matter how much they've spent - just read your own columns (and ManU's and Citeh's) for confirmation. We are in a better position to acquire the talent we want both before it's needed and increasingly as it's needed. Come back in 5 and 10 years time to see whose was the wisest strategy.

Mr Reasonable, does it not stand to good reason that a club be run as a profit making venture, which enhances shareholder value? If Arsenal can do this and still retain customer satisfaction (the trophies will come this season), with enjoyable football to boot, should we still find holes to pick with the club's management style or simply give kudos? Your last sentenced says it all; herein lies the crux of the frustration of you opposing fans. i.e., how does he do it with such little resources? For me, by turning his loan into equity, Roman has made his long term intentions for the club known, which is a good thing; but in football terms, it is half cheating because he has given the club an advantage over others, in that the club does not have to worry about repaying a valid obligation, but now can seat back and pay dividends, if they can run profitably (tough luck on that one, with your antecedents). On the down side, it could be his way out, since it is clear that the club cannot earn enough to pay him back in about 39 years; almost like he has been ambushed into taking equity instead of recouping on his "loan". Methinks he had very little choice. Think about it.

I would love to have a verbal discussion - my typing is not up to long posts. I just reiterate the following points In my view in the last 5 seasons the Arsenal Board have concentrated more on building up shareholder value than the team itself. I also think that there is a lot more money available than they are letting on - they choose not to spend it. From the limited perspective of the fan I dont want my club making a profit (effectively that I am part paying for) - I would prefer my football subsidised which Roman does for us. (And yes I know that may not be sustainable in the long term but in practice is no different from the old fashioned owner at every level of football who wrote a cheque out at the end of each season to cover the costs). Arsenal has not invested in the team at all - it has made a profit on player trading each year, Crewe work on that model. Once one of the 2 professional investors has shelled out over £600m to make the existing shareholders even richer he will either demand a return on his investment (so these profits still wont be invested in the team) - or he will not require a market return in which case he is Roman Lite. I really really think your board are lying to the Arsenal fans about their intentions.

Why don't you both F.U.C.K off? Chavs won F.U.C.K all until about a week last Wednesday and the immigrants reinvented themselves when Wenger pitched up in the nineties. Until then they were well known for being a bunch of boring dickheads who invented a barrel scrapingly awful ditty gloryfying in their ability to win by the slenderist of margins. You're both a miserable curse on existence. COME ON YOU SPURS!!!!

I'll even hazard a guess that angry Chavs have posted more on this forum tonight than on their own Vital forum. And it's just the angry r-tards, not the reasonable and polite ones we talk to all the time, like Kev and Merlin.

how could you forget that, elbondo?!?! haha

Your opinion is an ill informed and ill considered one Mr Reasonable. One based on a superficial understanding of the facts. You think the Board are lying about the amount of money available but they post their full and interim accounts, every 6 months, on the club web site for all to read. The Arsenal Supporters' Trust posts an independent and cogent appraisal of these on their own web site. I can't see that Chelsea do the same - why not? Who is hiding what from whom? I repeat, yet again, that only Chelsea and ManU have invested more in their team over the last 5 years. The difference is that only ManU and Arsenal have used funds that they have generated themselves. You acknowledge that your clubs finances are unsustainable on existing lines and justify this based on an antiquated model of patriachal ownership that had all but passed away before the birth of the PL. At least you also acknowledge that your perspective is a limited one. That comes across loud and clear in your simplistic argument. Your suggestion that Arsenal are underinvesting doesn't stand any sensible appraisal given the investments made in the club over the last 10 years - all designed to, and resulting in increased resources available for team development. Player trading is a pretty small part of the revenues generated but simply reflects wise investment in players and the avoidance of stupidly spunking money on players like Shevchenko et al. The Arsenal model is as different from the Crewe one as you could possibly get. You have some bizarre notion about shareholder conspiracy as though any one owner can possibly own AFC outright. That is highly unlikely - and unnecessary. At present Kroenke, Fiszman and friends have control - eventually Kroenke will have majority but not absolute control. The concept of multiple ownership has existed at the club for many years and has served us well - the shareholders may change (in a club 123 years old that's inevitable) but the model remains the same. It that regard nothing has changed so what is it that you think the fans are being lied to about? What intentions can the shareholders, whoever they are, have apart from owning a successful business? That's the only genuine reason for anyone to buy shares in any business.

And we are worried about Arsenal? No way! United? Yes. definitely not you guys. It just needs one bad result- once that comes, it will set a series of draws and losses into account and before long- you'll be fighting for 4th place. I remember a couple of seasons ago- you lot were leading the premiership by a mile. Did we worry? Of course not. Its funny, the delusion levels seem to be on an all time high.. And site traffic's been low, eh? You seem to write controversial articles purely for getting other fans in. Man Citeh do that, but I put it down to an overly greedy editor. Don't know about you, though.

Haha ...wow.

JT, you're a clueless MORON. "The fact is, his 'honest answering'- it's just a chatterbox being cleverly described. Journos love Wenger because he answers ANYTHING. Ask him about his wife's periods and most probably, he will answer." -- WRONG. Anyone who actually watches his press conferences will tell you he ALWAYS turns down any personal questions and always turns down questions about a number of issues, like other managers, except to say general things about how he respects them, or how sorry he is to see they were fired. AW answers questions about football FINANCES willingly because it's a subject he thinks a lot about. Your "jealousy" comment is laughable and says everything about your character, grade school level of debate and general idiocy than anything at all about us. But I can't expect anything else from pathetic chav scum -- tho the spud who posted certainly reminded us all where the real scum are.

Ah, jaelle. I'm the clueless moron? Your posts smack of a confused guy. Make a seasoned argument, which is not peppered with insults, if you want to be taken seriously. I won't bother with the retorts. Deltaforce, that's exactly the point I brought up. Look at the headline. Either the editor has a taste for the controversial or the site traffic is too low nowadays. TPowell, you think you're being very clever- but where did we finish that year? Ahead of you. If that won't shut you up, then you've got to be that escaped Asylum inmate I read about the other day... Arsene Wenger is a whiner, moaner and a obsessed idiot. As I said, I don't expect you lot to understand- You're all deluded. But the fans of the other 19 league teams understand it very, very well.

JT-daniel - It's a bit pathetic you complaining about the controversial nature of this headline when VC has had half a dozen Wenger related headlines in the last couple of months or so. Your understanding of obsession is as bizarre as Mourinho's revelation that he kept a 120 page dossier about Wenger's alleged obsession! Yet you only see delusion in others? That's deluded.

"I'm the clueless moron? Your posts smack of a confused guy. Make a seasoned argument, which is not peppered with insults, if you want to be taken seriously. "... A few sentences later... "Arsene Wenger is a whiner, moaner and a obsessed idiot."... So I guess we're not supposed to take that seriously. No problem here then.

Yeah - Oo you lookin' at? - eh! Could anything define a chav any better than that attitude? Wenger won the FA Cup less than 5 years ago - but your football knowledge is consistent with your intellect.

jerrysand -- 5 years seems a bit arbitrary considering the galacticos era at Real Madrid was before that... I suppose you must be new to football?

You guys fail to notice that none of our comments show any aggression.Only a few of us has commented eldondo so dont exaggerate.Unlike jimm we are not deluded just opinionated.We are simply giving our insight into the Abramovich saga.We show no resent to your club yet funny enough you guys become the more hostile.We show no paranoia,we're just being rational yet you go on about how classless we are just 'cos we have money? We are here not 'cos we're worried about arse-hole whinger but because you're mentioning our very club.Obviously your posts' would be completely subjective and bias so us blues fans came to balance it out & level the playing surface cos you fans will slate us unfairly.So this is us giving our point of view bitches

And that's my point....we all hate each other so why hide behind pretence? Say it how it is in your world.