UK time is: 07:18:29
Vital Login
Social Login

Choose your club

Other Sites

Network Navigation

Vital Partners

'If It's Football, It's Vital'

And Another Thing....

Work has been incredibly hectic of late, so it feels as though I haven`t fully had a chance to fully exorcise spleen on some of the rapacious rantings of the Premiership`s great and good over the last week. Consequently, this article is going to be a notebook style compendium of cacophonous criticisms and conniptions. But still, despite the outbreaks of verbal diarrhoea, we still have the soothing news that Ryan Shawcross has made a full recuperation and our stalwart is happy to report that he will not change his style.

'I knew straight after I was going to be the same player and make tackles.
'It was an accident and these things happen in football - I'm not going to change the way I play."


Errrm, maybe I`m demonstrating some deep kind of flaw in the philosophical cosmos, but isn`t the point of accidents that they do make you take stock and revise your actions? If I mowed someone down in my Baby Bentley at 100mph, I would perhaps think twice before reaching for the accelerator quite so liberally the next time I got behind the wheel. Our teary eyed bildungsroman then implied that his feelings had been hurt by the fact that Ramsey had not returned his calls (doubtless he was a bit too busy trying to walk again).

'I have made efforts, I've left him messages and a text, and nothing has been returned but that's up to Aaron,'

Hmmm, I`d wager Aaron has had enough contact from Shawcross to last him a life time. Baseball capped cretin Tony Pulis was quick to pipe up with his usual nonsense. Presumably spitting into the microphone stark bollock naked wearing nothing but his chavvy cap, as he looked mournfully around for another one of his staff to head butt.

'I think everyone who has seen the incident, apart from maybe one person (Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger), recognises it was an accident,' he said.

I`m not aware that Wenger did say that it was deliberate, but this is the sort of half baked shit you expect from knuckle draggers like Pulis and the sort of unsubstantiated fabrication that then passes into the realms of bona fide fact for the media and their baying, slack jawed masses. To think Pulis remarked earlier in the season of Wenger, "moaning like a drain." Incidentally, in the same press conference, Pulis confirmed that Mike Tyson had visited the Potters training ground. So stand by this weekend as Abdoulaye Faye gnaws Carlton Cole`s ear off to an outpouring of validation from pundits the nation over.

Speaking of mendacious hypocrites, John Terry has also been boo hooing in the press this weekend. Having secured the Father of the Year award from Daddies sauce (which ego centric at a condiments company thought they had the right to judge who the best parent in the whole of England is? Seriously, how fucking self important and arrogant can you be? Maybe Vital Arsenal should hold an award ceremony of our own to decipher 2010`s "sexiest sufferer of a terminal illness"), John was looking for the Tunnock`s Teacakes hypocrite of the Year award to flesh out his mantle piece. Terry was wracked with indignation as he lamented UEFA refereeing standards,

Some choice segments from this salacious waffle were as follows:
"We were at home (to Inter) and we didn`t get one decision." Right, so referees are meant to be biased towards home sides? Gothca.
"We need someone at the club to take it up with UEFA. I'm not going to say the word conspiracy. But I'm so frustrated by what happened." So you`re not going to use the word conspiracy? That`s funny John, because it looks like you already used it there. It`s that word with a 'c` in that sentence you just said. No, not that word with a 'c`. Though I know you`re very used to hearing that one.
'When a decision didn't go our way I, as captain, went to speak to the German referee and he turned his back on me. That is just pure disrespect." Imbibe that little sentence one more time, that`s right, John Terry accuses a referee of disrespecting him! Whatever next? Ashley Cole derides the self important nature of the modern footballer? Didier Drogba goes postal on the issue of 'simulation`? Perhaps Michael Ballack could express concern at players that routinely break up play "wiz all the niggly fouls, ja." Statesman Terry heroically went onto claim, "If I get myself in trouble so be it, I owe it to our fans to speak out." Funny John, because you`ve been very quiet over the last two months haven`t you?

No sermon on football`s morons would be complete without a full and frank discussion on football pundits. I`m told that, upon Thomas Vermaelen being sent off on Saturday, ESPN were broadcasting that the Verminator`s suspension would be for three games. A red card for a professional foul has only ever been a one match suspension- unless the perpetrator has already been sent off within that season, therefore it becomes two. Is it really so difficult for people who are paid to provide an expert analysis to actually know the rules of the game? Indeed, ESPN charge a subscription for their channel, so part of the package you are paying for is that their coverage features a well informed and articulate panel. Similarly, the coverage of the Manchester United penalty garnered against Liverpool has been similarly infuriating. Law 12 in the Fouls and Misconduct session clearly states, 'If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding him inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick.' Now, you can debate whether indeed Mascherano was still holding Valencia in the penalty area, but the line Sky were peddling was that as the foul started outside the box then it has to be a free kick. No! You cretins. Commentators and impossibly tight trousered pundits should surely know the chuffing rules if they`re going to address the nation on a controversial decision? You wouldn`t invite a politician onto Question Time if he didn`t know what the Maastricht Treaty was. Sky have long been responsible for misappropriation of the rules of the game, proliferating them and then seeing their incorrect bastardisations drift into accepted fact. For instance, this nonsensical "oooh, but was he the last man?" rubbish when looking at a professional foul. The rules make no reference to "last man", they only make mention of "clear goal scoring opportunity" so whether or not the defender was the "last man" is not always relevant. It really does not take an awful lot of research to ascertain this knowledge- but if you`re in the business of imparting wisdom then it pays to know. I can just about accept that most football coverage caters for the lowest common denominator, but this flagrant misrepresentation of the rules is as pointless as it is infuriating.LD.




Use your social login to comment on front page articles. Login using you Facebook, Twitter, Google or LinkedIn accounts and have your say!



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

The Journalist

Writer: Tim Stillman Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday March 24 2010

Time: 10:58AM

Your Comments

YAWN........... it's about time that tackle was forgotten, don't get me wrong i like aaron ramsey but im sure shawcross was not out to bust his leg, when we played them last week they were over the top in kicking players out of the game and it is not needed in the PL but it was an accident what happened to aaron so lets move on, instead of wenger telling teams they should change there style of play maybe he should look to change his own style of play, football is a physical game to a degree and now and again players get hurt, lets face it we are english teams (most of us anyway) and the english game is physical.
spursman79
Bang on the ******** money - especially the bit about pundits and actually knowing the rules of the game they are actually talking about. We are so far behind the rest of Europe's top leagues is actually frightening.
Gunnerman
Why do they all wear those trousers? It's seem like they're having some kind of competition to see who can get the outline of their ********* the most air time. As for ESPN, in fairness, it was just the female reporter interviewing Arsene who said it was a three game ban, when they got back to the studio they corrected that to the one game ban.
Rocky7
AAAAAAARRRHH No one is saying it was deliberate you mug. Take your antiquated view of orc-ball and ***** off. Guess what the english game has bought our national football team in terms of success? Sweet F.A.
Gunnerman
spursman79, congratulations, you have just parroted every infuriating cliche surrounding the incident. Where did I, or anyone for that matter, say he bust his leg intentionally? Where did Wenger say Stoke should change their style of play? Why does it matter whether Shawcross meant it or not? This explains your infuriating attitude quite nicely http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/06/aaron-ramsey-broken-leg-ryan-shawcross
Little Dutch
Gunnerman, maybe that is because teams like yourselves don't like english players how many you got now? i didn't comment on the situation for a mug like you to give it verbal over a computer screen you big hard man you!!! teams like arsenal are the reason for our downward spiral as a national team so maybe you wanna look closer to home when you moan about england MUG!!
spursman79
Wow, did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? LOL You shouldn't be driving your baby bentley at 100 mph as the rules of the road suggest but tackles are part of the game, Arse players have picked up many a red in their time for these type o tackles too. Lets keep it a physical, contact sport please. As for dad of the year, John Terry, its nice to see you choose what quotes to use and where to use them. You know exactly what he's trying to say and he made sense until you cut and paste it. Maybe somebody should give Timmy his rattle back.
Zbam
Accident or not, spursman, the little runt Shawcross hasn't apologized and what is worse, says he is going to keep making the same tackles. Oh that's reassuring. Pity the next poor sod, then that'll make three leg-breaks. Wake up! Spot-on in everything you said, LD.
julieloveshenry4ever
How many of our youth team players are english? Wouldn't hurt to do some research would it? idiot.
Gunnerman
Little Dutch: infuriating attitude? what are you talking about? i know that not much is going on at the goons these days but harping on about that stupid tackle is pointless don't you think? i didn't wanna start a fight with you guys as i did point out i actually like ramsey, all my point is shouldnt you move on from it that all, nothing infuriating bout that.
spursman79
How many English players plying in the top flight were trained at Arsenal? Again, see above comment. Mug.
Gunnerman
Downward sprial? Really? How many trophies have England won? If indeed they were ever a great international force it hasn't been the case for a long time. Much longer than the period of time Wenger has been incharge of Arsenal. And when you look at the national game, how many PL clubs have Arsenal educated player in their team? Cheslea - Ashley Cole, Spurs - David Bentley, Jamie O'Hara, Aston Villa - Steve Sidwell, Liverpool had Jermaine Pennant, Bolton - Fabrice Mwamba etc etc etc. So don't tell me Arsenal don't contribute to the English game, there's more than supplying players to the national team to doing good for the game. That's not to mention we have players like Theo Walcott, Jack Wilshere, Kieran Gibbs, Jay-Emmanuel Thomas coming through. You clearly have no idea about Arsenal or English football, so I suggest you shut that hole in your face.
Rocky7
youth team? YOUTH TEAM???? what good is that? how many youth players actually make it through any team? bad come back that one im afraid, if your going on youth then spurs can field a whole team plus subs for england!!! MUG.
spursman79
Spursman you plank. Before all these nasty foreigners started invading English football in numbers inside the last 19 odd years, can you tell me exactly how many World Cup and European Cup trophies England was winning? Arsenal to blame for England's abysmal record. What a laugh that is. As you know Arsenal won the World Cup in 1998.
julieloveshenry4ever
What good is a youth team? Where do you think these players come from you tit? You think the football stork drops them off? As stated above, look how many Arsenal youth players have made it at other teams ... and that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's many more.
Rocky7
Zbam: You shouldn't drive a car at 100mph hour, that's true. But if someone did, and just happened to hurt someone whilst doing it, would you simply say that "speeding is just part of the road"? Tackling is a part of the game - reckless tackles are not. And you shouldn't tackle recklessly, as the rules of the game suggest.
ptv-
Zbam-all these red-card tackles? When's the last time an Arsenal player broke a player's leg? Consult the fair play tables while you're at it.
julieloveshenry4ever
rocky7: first of all LOL at the above players you have mentioned except one the rest have contributed nothing towards england oh yeah they are called up every time my mistake!! even our own ledley king has been called up recently over them and he is permanently injured!! so maybe i suggest that point is stupid, tell me except A cole, how many caps between the rest you muppet!!
spursman79
julieloveshenry4ever: at least one of you admit you are a french team rather than english, you must be so proud bless ya!!
spursman79
I'd wager Ashley Cole alone has more caps than any number of players to come through Spurs academy in recent years. If you think that doing good for English football begins and ends with the national team then you don't deserve to be a football fan. As for upcoming players, just keep an eye on the England team over the next few years. The under 18's (I think) team has more Arsenal players in it than any other club.
Rocky7
Or at least it did until other players moved up.
Rocky7
spursman, at the risk of trying the "he started it" argument, I was actually pretty sure I was quoting Stoke players with regards the Ramsey incident, they're the ones that dragged the issue up and tried to paint Shawcross as a victim. Zbam, here are Terry's quotes unabridged.
It was a bad performance by us but a really bad performance from the referee. It is not good enough at this stage of the competition. "We were at home and we didn't get one decision. "We do our best to get ourselves in this position and for two years running we get let down by bad refereeing. "We need someone at the club to take it up with UEFA. I'm not going to say the word conspiracy. But I'm so frustrated by what happened. "Florent Malouda got fouled inside the box in the first half and the referee waved play on. Didier Drogba gets manhandled and if the referee misses it, we have the linesman. "When a decision didn't go our way I, as captain, went to speak to the German referee and he turned his back on me," Terry said. "I wasn't shouting. I went to try to talk to him and when he wouldn't talk that is when I got frustrated. "That is just pure disrespect. "If I get myself in trouble, then so be it. I owe it to our fans to speak out." Funny he didn't seem so concerned about the referee missing him snotting on Tevez's neck or the ref that allowed his winning goal against Barca despite Carvalho throttling the keeper?
Little Dutch
being good at under 18 football don't make you a full england international in the future though does it? bet ashley cole is probably on a par with ledley king if you count his caps for england as an arsenal player otherwise a certain mr beckham was a trainee at spurs so i could use that one instead or crouch whose goalscoring record for england is better than any of your "england players" oh and your international team france might of won the world cup in 98 but barcelona are gonna trounce you in 2010 hahahaha, another trophy less season for the once mighty gooners lol
spursman79
ok,so if Shawcross did not break Ramseys leg intentionally then why carry on and on and on...I agree spursman,Yawn,Yawn and more Yawn..
Daz Hotspurs
shawcross is a victim in this, it was a tackle badly timed thats all but anyone would think he should be hanged, it's only cause it happened to a good young player like ramsey that everyone is feeling sorry for him, if it had happened to fabregas then i would be saying GOOD JOB!!!
spursman79
My point Daz, is who is carrying on here? Stoke, making Shawcross the victim. I'm not at all incorrect to get annoyed about that. Whether he meant it or not is NOT THE POINT. Read the article at the link I provided above and it might spell it out for you in words you'll understand.
Little Dutch
Wow! Shawcross is a victim here apparently. Also Arsenal are responsible for English football's plight. Anybody willing to contribute towards a straitjacket for our spud friend here?
Deltaforce
Atleast with some of the other spud contributors like HY etc one can occasionally have a debate. These two planks are not even worth engaging.
Deltaforce
I never said arsenal were responsible for englands plight, i said teams like arsenal make it hard for our country when the players arent english that was my point you stupid muppet!! shawcross IS a victim in the way he is being treated for 1 tackle!! how many bad tackles did viera do when in an arsenal shirt but then i suppose that don't count does it? retards!
spursman79
You are out of your league here S&M79. Much like your club. A club gets the vital site it deserves. You belong on the pointless forums of Vital spuds dreaming about non existent top 4 glory. Cheerio.
Deltaforce
Are you lot still banging on about this? God change the **** record. Boohoo your so hard done by, all the other managers tell their players to break your legs waaah waah waaah. Its delusional and pathetic!
IanWrightsUglyWife
Yet you all keep flocking over and reading it?
Little Dutch
non existent top 4 glory? erm......... remind me where are spurs in the league at this moment? we are also gonna smash you in the league next month at the lane, we might of been out of european competition for a while but still have better european honours than your pathetic club so do one retard.
spursman79
Please, people, don't feed the trolls. Kernowboy buggered up one thread last week, let's not have a repeat. The Fabregas comment shows you spursman is a tit and there's not really anything you can say to make him sound more of a tit, so please don't bite.
Little Dutch
sori 2 deviate frm da spud bashing, bt i cant seem 2 change my default membership password. in my welcum email' it says 2 click on forum, and my account. iv done dat no hope. is it cos im using a mobile device? any idea guys?
shady gunna
Haha "downward spiral" - that'll be since '66 then.
shewore
shady guna, that's because when I arrived at Seven Sister's station this morning at 3am you were conspicuous by your absence! Only joking, I'm sure the Rockster will pick this up anyway, but e mail him at the top of the page and he'll be able to find someone that can help you.
Little Dutch
Maybe wenger told shawcross to break ramsey's leg? That way he can not run away when wenger is on the prowl...."come here little boy"
IanWrightsUglyWife
Looks like the Remedial classes have turned out early in Tottenham. Must be a Tax holiday there again. Interesting response from the spuddies seeing as the theme of the article was 'footballing morons' - probably sounded like an open invitation for them to comment on soemthing they are more than qualified for.
Amos.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6051368,00.html Seriously, did ulis read this article or something? Warning, link above likely to make your blood boil. For my own journalistic point of view, it's dynamite!
Little Dutch
spursman your saying he is being victimised for one bad tackle, i think he is a habitual reckless player,who says that he has no intentions of changing his style of play, thats fair enough but how many leg breaks will he commit before you would say it was unacceptable? if he broke 5 legs would you say that was ok, what about 3 legs?
fran merida
Amos. - Its spelt "something" not "soemthing" and to think you have the cheek to call us moron's haha
IanWrightsUglyWife
Pulis's comments are just standard cloggers defense. Arsene isn't interested in whether they fail or not just whether they want to play football or not. Maybe they'll learn to but if Pulis's attitude is that they don't have to change then Stoke will fall out the PL in the next 2-3 years seasons. Not because anyone wants them to fail simply because they can't play football well enough. A long throw will only get you so far before you have to come up with something else that works.
Amos.
I didn't call you a moron IWUW - I just let you confirm it for yourself that's all.
Amos.
Amos. - Taking notes from your manager? "I didn't see what i wrote, honest". Haha muppet
IanWrightsUglyWife
Just calling it as it is IWUW. Read your own posts for confirmation.
Amos.
LD, that annoyed me as well. I've written to Mediawatch, hopefully, it will get published and show that Pulis is being a *****. Wenger had such good things to say about Stoke, esp pre-match in Feb. Fat Sam also managed to drag Wenger into some comments he made yesterday, which were out of line. The media lets them get away with *****, and doesnt challenge the blatant bull***** that English managers spout.
prits
spursman79 - I only got halfway down the posts and immeadiately thought that a scabby little tw*t like you really should **** off and play with the traffic. As only a bunch of comments that truly filled with ignorance could come from someone like you. Let the fans of Arsenal discuss this without some WUMing berk getting in the way. Run along sunshine.
LondonGooner
Amos. - Forget about reading your own posts. I would go take a long, hard look in the mirror if i was you.
IanWrightsUglyWife
spursman79 - If you bothered to take the sailors cocks out of your mouth long enough to talk sense people might just pay attention to your points without ridiculing you. As you have done nothing but try and stir trouble you will only be viewed as such meaning any future posts from you will be irrelevant and menaingless, kind of like they are now.
LondonGooner
Keep dreaming about that 4th place S&M 69. Pigs can fly and all that.
Deltaforce
Cmon fellas leave the inferior alone, we would be like them to if we had to endure what they have over the last 50 years. I mean We got Barcelona to be worried about, the last time the Spuds played them it was in front of 36 people at New Wembley. Try and be a bit more understanding with them.
iceman10
Seriously IWUW - take a look at your posts - you'd have to admit they're a bit yah-boo kids playground stuff now aren't they.
Amos.
Amos. - Playground stuff would be saying "my dad's bigger than yours"...which he probably is but that is neither here nor there
IanWrightsUglyWife
TO ALL YOU IDIOTS CALLING SHAWCROSS A "VICTIM": At 22, he has broken TWO players' legs, and badly injured two other players, leaving them out of the game for at least 2 months. Last year Shawcross assaulted Ade -- the ball was OUT OF PLAY, Ade was past the touchline, Shawcross came speeding at Ade and assaulted him. And I'll ask the same question that pundits up and down Europe asked: what the hell was Shawcross doing in that area of the pitch making such a wild, out of control tackle? The ball was going nowhere, Ramsey and the ball were nowhere near Stoke's half of the pitch. Shawcross is a thug, but it's not his fault, it's how he's been trained: to make wild, out of control, reckless tackles totally indifferent to their consequences, and to believe that's football. That's English grit for you: go in with out of control challenges regardless of consequences and regardless of where an opponent is on the pitch. Of course he'll continue making such tackles and assaulting opponents, he doesn't know how to do anything else. And he's been trained not to care a whit about hurting opponents. Look at all the good defenders in the league: just exactly how often do they seriously injure players? How many players has Ledley King hurt? Good defenders don't make a career out of badly injuring opponents. (and yes, I do think King is a good defender).
jaelle
And who are these spud morons talking about the nationality of our players when THEIR team is full of foreigners? Just exactly what has SPURS done for the English national team recently, please tell me. BTW, I can't recall all those int'l trophies England won when the league had only English/British players.
jaelle
This is THE most pathetic spud attack ive seen on this site. Some of the comments are downright disgusting. And feeding these ********s won't help either. Funnily enough these morons don't post much on vital spurs but come here to spew their *****e.
Sajit
Sorry for not breaking up my first post, I have to get used to doing that. As for Terry...his comments really beggar belief. This is one of the most cynical players in the league, the guy who regularly uses cheap gamesmanship tricks to gain advantage, the guy who commits rugby tackles (thus destroying goal scoring opportunities) and gets away with it; the guy who moves up the touchline closer to Chelsea's goal for throw-ins, the guy who in EVERY single Chelsea game I ever see rants and raves at the ref. Look in the fkn mirror, hypocrite.
jaelle
"these morons don't post much on vital spurs but come here to spew their *****e." -- of course, they're part of that pathetic species of spud who are more obsessed with Arsenal than their own team, they get more pleasure out of Arsenal's failures and are more interested in Arsenal controversies than their own club.
jaelle
It's a species known as LOSERS.
jaelle
The image LD conjures up of Pulis talking into the microphone with his chav cap on was hilarious.
Deltaforce
can only just laugh at some of you whingers...but thats football in your eyes...im over it chaps..just fueling the fire for our near encounter...gonna love it when you come to the Lane...Its why I love this league and Love my team too..so might as well start with you guys now..chelski are no where near as important as our game together so wont bother with those rubbish supporters..
Daz Hotspurs
so long whingers my time is up..will tease you losers tomorrow..
Daz Hotspurs
prits, I imagine mediawatch will take it up, as they did with Fat Sam today. You'll also notice the ehadline F365 used was, "Pulis moaning about something or other again."
Little Dutch
Haha its so funny to watch how wound up you mugs get! Job done.
IanWrightsUglyWife
top article as always LD!
TPowell
haha, as if right on cue these non-knowledge based football supporters (spuds) pop up with their inane babble! brilliant!
TPowell
Yeah keep telling yourself what an ace wind up merchant you are IWUW - nobody has seen through you - delusions and spuds eh! Who would think it!
Amos.
Hahaha arsenal fans can't say anything about being delusional! You all think everyone is out to get you, and that managers tell their players to go in hard on you! Well what about Gallas's challenge on Mark Davis? Studds up, could of easily broken his leg and mark was lucky to get just ligament damage, no red card and not even a foul given. Did wenger tell him to do that?
IanWrightsUglyWife
haha, IWUW is awful at banter!!
TPowell
Ligament damage? Wow, Davies did really well to play in the next game then......
Little Dutch
Not much delusion on our side of North London all the dreamers are in your run down part of town. Nothing at all wrong with Gallas's perfectly fair tackle. All the force was generated by Davies frantic uncontrolled lunge at the ball. He injured himself. All Gallas did was stay on his feet and not shirk the challenge. The ref was standing right next to the pair - saw it completely clearly and correctly called it as a 50-50 challenge. Dean Whitehead was a bit unlucky getting sent off for tackling Modric though wasn't he?
Amos.
Amos. - Your right Dean Whitehead was very unlucky to get sent off. The tackles were not even that late and they certainly were not malicious. See the difference there?
IanWrightsUglyWife
What? That you haven't previously rushed to defend Dean Whitehead and protested vehemently at his treatment while being quick to condemn Gallas' for his innocuous tackle? The difference is hypocrisy - or simple ignorance.
Amos.
Amos, the difference could also be pure stupidity. The said speciment is hardly the sharpest tool in the box.
Deltaforce
Amos. - I think you will find that i never condemned Gallas, i just used it as an example. I don't believe that the Gallas tackle was malicous either, but nor was the shawcross tackle and thats what all this comes down to. You feel hard done by when its one of your players involved in a unfortunate mis-timed tackle but when its the other way around "its ok, he didnt mean it". That is what is so sad and pathetic about you lot.
IanWrightsUglyWife
Conspiracy down at The Arsenal towards our players getting purposely injured? Try this one for a conspiracy, Blaming the Marriot hotel for poisoning your team (without foundation) then accusing the Premier League of a stitch up because they wouldnt replay the game 3 days after West Ham were involved in the FA cup final.
iceman10
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spurs-may-seek-replay-of-final-game-to-defuse-controversy-477424.html
iceman10
IWUW, what you are failing to see is that nobody is questioning that the result of Shawcross' tackle was an accident, take your head out of a tabloid for two minutes and you'll see that. The difference is it was an avoidable accident. There is a clear difference between Gallas and Shawcross, namely Gallas just stands there, Shawcross goes clattering in at 100mph. You've fallen for the cheap media trick of looking through the archives for someone complaining about a tackle by an Arsenal player and then presenting that as the same as the Shawcross tackle when it's not. The last genuinely awful challenge I can remember from an Arsenal player and a much better example would be Diaby's tackle on Steinsson in March 2008. It was a two footed lunge that could easily have caused a lot of damage to Steinsson's ankle.
Little Dutch
You don't read much do you IWUW - nobody thinks that the Shawcross tackle was 'malicious' or 'intentional' or anything other than careless, reckless or using excessive force all of which are offences under the laws of the game for which a player can be dismissed. As it is an offence it should be prevented from happening again so a numpty footballer encouraged by the unthinking to claim that he won't change the way he plays having just be dismissed for being careless, reckless and/or using excessive force is just plain stupid. That is what is so sad and pathetic about you and those like you who can't get past their partisan blinkers to read what is really being said.
Amos.
Then you all sound like you have never played a game of football in your life.
IanWrightsUglyWife
Daz Hotspurs - I bet you can't even play football, can you? I am looking forward to the game at SHL too. It's going to be SO enjoyable laughing at you when you mess up the 4th spot again! PS - stay off the lasagne you muppet
Gooner_Vin
"but nor was the shawcross tackle and thats what all this comes down to." -- NO IT ISN'T. How many fkg times do we have to say this? INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT INTENT IS IRRELEVANT. Learn the goddamned rules of football! The rules say ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO about fkg intent! The issue is RECKLESSNES and duty of care! The ISSUE is whether or not a footballer goes into a challenge completely out of control, totally indifferent to any harm he might inflict.
jaelle
The ISSUE is that the RULES say all players must always play with "duty of care", that wild out of control challenges are AGAINST the rules. Is that plain enuf for you?
jaelle
IWUW, played plenty, enough to know that if an opponent has the ball in the centre circle, there's not a lot to be gained by me throwing my entire bodyweight at him as fast as I can. Even if I win the ball, it just flies out of play. Nobody has ever been able to get away from the driving analogy for me (which is why most just ignore it). If you drive at excessive speeds, you're not really in control of your car and any misjudgement you make at that speed is likely to be fatal. No doubt you'd be the first to comfort the driver and tell him it's ok, he's the vicitm and we all know he's not that type of driver. Read the Guardian article in the link I posted at the top of the thread, it'll explain it to you very well.
Little Dutch
Two absolutely despicable comments made, one about Fabregas and one about Wenger. As much as I despise your loathsome, insignificant little pub team, I wouldn't wish a leg-break on one of your players or make light of the most disgustingly vile crime you can level at anyone. Other TH fans can come on this site and join in intelligent banter but you two today have no class whatsoever. Oh and look where you are in the league? Yeah, BEHIND us as usual you idiot.
julieloveshenry4ever
How many times are the ITV commentary team gonna mention the word 'twitch' tonight? Konchesky twitched it away, Schwarzer barely twitched, they are taking the massive wazz out of twitchy on national telly, priceless! :)
nikolaijns
ESPN were so oh so disapointed that West Ham didn't equalise that during half time they had to talk about how Almunia cheated in order to save the penalty. And talking about how refereeing decisions let Chelsea down against Inter is silly, I dont even think they could complain about Ovrebo considering Barca were playing with 10 and dominated possession.
gronedrone
Sajit
It's gonna be an exciting game at *****e Fart Lane this season, thats for sure.
FuiKaka
Hey Sajit ...sup?
FuiKaka
Damn! Waited an hour on arsenal.com to buy my ticket to the Arsenal-Barca game and looks as though it's sold out. Sob sob...
Gooner_Vin
Wait a minute. I wonder if Vital Arsenal is trying to generate some posting activity with some bogus Sp*ds comments. Surely no real person can produce such idiotic and crass bile such as we’ve seen from KB71 and now spursman79 . Frighteningly, if these people really do exist, how can I support England in the World cup knowing that KB71 and spursman79 are English?
Sir Henry
Bang on the money about Terry. I struggle to think of a bigger cock not just in world football, but in the world today. He's a complete asshole in every sense of the word. Greed, Arrogance and Classless in abundance. I'd hate him evn if i was a Chelsea fan.
HuddersfieldYiddo
It seems only Chelsea fans can like a complete ***** such as John Terry.
LondonGooner
Not true LG...many Chelsea fans think he's a ****
No 10
It is facinating to observe the shift in tone that this forum has taken in recent weeks. The 'Shawcross Incident' has been utilised by the site journalist as the pivotal event around which all subsequent discurse can gather.Group loyalties can be reinforced. More than this, we can observe how the groups psyche' has come to resemble that of their manager, who has actively cultivated the myth that Arsenal are victims of 'rough justice'. This persecution complex is being burnt as fuel for the season run. At the same time as Shawcross is being symbolically hung, drawn and quatered, all groups and teams who share not so much as a passing resenblence to Stoke are also swiftly villified once a game against Arsenal is over;substitute metonyms for Shawcrosses' crime.
Tony Rocky Horror
Seriously, are any of you Sperz fans actually gonna read that link to the Guardian article I posted? It pretty much nails what I'm talking about and renders this amateur cod psychology for the media fed bull***** that it is. Listen, there's no persecution complex or or attempt to do anything. Shawcross and Pulis opened their gobs so I responded, it really is as simple as that. Same with Terry, who you'll notice is included in the article.
Little Dutch
I wasn't disputing events, merely attempting to work with a model of group interaction which examines human responses within the context of a shocking event that predates it. I accept that the tone might be misconstrued as impudent.
Tony Rocky Horror
What a load of pretentious pseudo psychological crap!!! It's just a journalistic response to the raising of the 'Shawcross Incident' by the Stoke side that's all. This groups psyche hasn't come to resemble their managers any differently than the Stoke groups psyche and their persecution complex has come to resemble theirs. Or anymore than those groups whose blinkered partisan inability to even attempt to see beyond the surface of the issue renders them incapable of objectivity for no other reason than their paralysed psyche doesn't allow them accept any argument if it favours the perspective of Arsenal Football Club
Amos.
I wrote about Arsenal, not another club. If i were to write about another club, then i would use the same model of critical thinking that i have here. No offence, but you do seem to be reacting in a manner which rather confirms my suspicions. If you choose to ridicule rather than discourse then that, i suppose, is your perogative.
Tony Rocky Horror
What better place to write, or read about Arsenal than an Arsenal web site. Which is what the author of the article is doing of course. Hardy a complex analytical task to decide that's what it is really. Discourse without purpose then.
Amos.
Surely Vital Arsenal gets posted on by rival supporters more then the other Vital Sites? Tony Rocky Horror, if you'd use the same critical thinking about other clubs what exactly is your point in being here? You're basically saying all fans hold the same flaws so why attack one bunch of fans about it?
FuiKaka
TRH and all the other spuds on here, some villages are missing their idiots. Go home!
deledudu
are you girls still whinging....
Daz Hotspurs
well you girls are still interested enough to keep reading it......
Amos.
Only about unwelcome spuds stinking the place out Daz.
LondonGooner
I think the surprising thing about this forum is that when the Spuddies come across for a gander they are surprised that we are not all coating each other off and questioning the parentage of every member and fellow Gooner. We do things a little differently here, if theres a burning issue someone like Rocky or LD posts a new article on it and we discuss it, while over at vitaltotteringham you just coat each other off, a chimps tea party if you will. Notice the huge class gap between clubs is also reflected in the forums aswell.
LondonGooner
the huge class gap?when you lot gonna win something again..Henry's glory days at your squatters are over..Well Henry will be scoring a few against you lot...and he will be celebrating,just not in front of his whinging ex supporters..
Daz Hotspurs
It has been a relatively short while since we last won the title at WHL but not anywhere as long as it is since your lot last won it. Henry is just one of many stars still playing to have won titles with us. Those still alive that won it with your lot have been collecting their state pensions for the last 10-20 years.
Amos.
Fuikaka, i will be posting articles on other forums. I'm not here to victimise specific individuals or groups, but to offer some explanations for the ways people think and behave; even if the conclusions i come to may occasionally make uncomfortable reading for those who are the subject of its scrutiny. I respect your point of view. Your forum has answered my criticism by rejecting the underlyng theme of my posting: fine. BTW, i don't do insults based on class, intelligence, ethnicity, nationality, or indeed any other arbitary system of human relations. So if you want to attack someone like me, you'll need to be a tad more creative, 'if you will'.
Tony Rocky Horror
Are you offering 'explanations' for the way people think and behave or merely opinions? Someone elses model of critical thinking might conclude that assumption on your part is pretentious in which case it isn't ridicule as you claim just opinion - or explanation if you prefer.
Amos.
Fair enough...we can play with semantics.
Tony Rocky Horror
I'm sure you will.
Amos.
Sorry to go off-topic but this sums up my experience regarding buying tickets for the Arsenal-Barca game and I concur with the suspicions and comments raised in this blog - http://www.fansonline.net/arsenal/article.php?id=501
Gooner_Vin
My my is there a full moon or what? the spuds are coming out in numbers now. seem to like our forum better than their own and talking about their forum at vital, how come that we get blocked there for innocent comment when whe have to put up with torrent of vile **** from them here?
Armory
Well Armory, my explanation of the way people think and behave concludes that we are simply more liberal, tolerant and enlightened folk here at VA even if that conclusion makes uncomfortable reading for those subject to this scrutiny.
Amos.
Now that, Amos, was enjoyable.
Tony Rocky Horror
What a load of BS from TRH! If you cannot explain things clearly do not bother at all. Three long posts which basically revolve around the same crap we have been engaging spuds with over past few weeks.
Sajit
OK, Tony Rocky Horror isn’t a real person surely!
Sir Henry
If you do exist TRH then I think that you should go and see a psychologist yourself. Anyone who comes on to a football forum and pontificates the way you do needs help.
Sir Henry
I've also written an extensive critical essay on 'Lasgane Gate' which explains how and why this bizarre event led to a conclusion which was preferable for both Spurs and Arsenal in their respective conditions at the time. The abstract makes it clear that the end events allowed both clubs to psychlogically 'save face', whilst the safety of the status quo was maintained for all.
Tony Rocky Horror
psychologically
Tony Rocky Horror
I bet it makes for truly enthralling reading. And there's me thinking the Spuds simply shat themselves.
Amos.
Amos on first look yes Whitehead was unfortunate to be sent off for the last foul on Modric,but he had apparently been warned after the yellow and it was more a sending off for continual fouling than the actual tackle that led to the red,which admittedly didn't look that bad.
CoxintheBox
I had started to draft a thesis on the failure of the Spuds to achieve any meaningful success over a number of decades and the pyschological consequences leading to a crushing sense of inferiority against their more illustrious and far more successful neighbours. A complex which compels them to spend inordinate lengths of time on their neighbours forums attempting to mitigate their own failures and denigrating the others achievements in an endeavour to assuage this sense of inferiority. But I found I was *****ing myself laughing too much to finish it.
Amos.
Now, thats awesome Amos. Do share it if you ever get round to writing the missive. Should make an interesting read. Poor Totteringham, they at least succeeded in delaying St'Totteringham day this year!
deledudu
It's a shame when any intelligent individual resorts to cynicism as a defence against reasoned argument, but you must follow the path you believe to be just.
Tony Rocky Horror
It's also a shame when an intelligent individual resorts to pretentious posturing in order to reinforce a flimsy argument whereas a degree of healthy cynicism often aids reasoning and avoids over complication I find.
Amos.
Well...at least we agree on one thing.
Tony Rocky Horror
owned! Any chance he'll disappear like our dear KB?
deledudu
At least i mean to say that i agree in priniciple with that statement: even though i am aware that it was intended as an oblique criticism of my mode of interlocution.
Tony Rocky Horror
Must be a glutton for punishment. But I guess you gotta be one to be a spuddie!
deledudu
Tony Rocky Horror: "It's a shame when any intelligent individual resorts to cynicism as a defence against reasoned argument, but you must follow the path you believe to be just." -- And it's pathetic and totally transparent when someone tries to pass off as "objective" or "reasoned" argument a position that is very clearly a partisan, tribal opinion based entirely on his spud-colored glasses and his tribal refusal (in mindless, knee-jerk fashion) to even for one second consider the arguments of his rival club's supporters, preferring to dismiss them and sneer at them solely because of WHO is making them -- not the actual content of those arguments.

Tony honey, you are very obvious. A GENUINELY objective, reasoned person would actually read the substance of our arguments regarding Shawcross and Ramsey instead of immediately dismissing them because of WHO we are. But because we are Arsenal, we must therefore be wrong. It is YOU who are not being "reasoned" because you are mindlessly adhering to the stereotype of Arsenal whinging about something that YOU mindlessly parrot as a "myth" without thought.

A genuinely objective, reasoned person would stand back and question popular media stereotypes about Arsenal and our complaints on this issue, put aside his own tribal loyalties and consider what other football countries are saying about the Shawcross tackle. They'd find that unanimously in Europe (and I can attest in the Latin American media), pundits across the board asked the same questions about Shawcross' totally out of control challenge in that area of the pitch.

A truly reasoned person would do research, weigh all the evidence and facts instead of mindlessly dismissing them because they don't fit into the stereotypes about our club (i.e., Shawcross' actual record of breaking legs and causing serious injuries; i.e., 3 of our players being badly injured in less than 4 years).

So you're a poser, a liar, a hypocrite and a fraud. You come to this site with your own baggage of unexamined, knee-jerk assumptions based on lazy stereotypes--not objective, careful thought. You're even worse than your other idiot compatriots who come here: at least they don't pretend to be intellectually "reasoned" or "objective".
jaelle
Ah, well.....at least you're honest.
Tony Rocky Horror
Yay..Jaelle used <*br*> :)
Sajit
I bet it makes for truly enthralling reading. And there's me thinking the Spuds simply shat themselves. Amos. --- Pwnage..
Sajit
It happens,you have a conspiracy about opposition players breaking your legs,we have conspiracies about refs & man u have conspiracies of not have conspiracies.Circle of life I guess.
Chelsea24/7
Wow, and to think I had a Spurs fan come on here and accuse me of being pseud's corner a few weeks ago! "If you're not cynical. you're not paying attention." Noam Chomsky. Chelsea 24/7, I don't believe nor did I say that I believe there is a conspiracy to break Arsenal's players legs. But I think you'd have to be utterly stupid or willfully unattentive to deny that with three horrific leg breaks in less than four years is a manifestation of what we see every week, namely that teams do take physicality outside of the rules against Arsenal. Get yourself a tape of the Hull City game for bona fide evidence.
Little Dutch
TRH. It's a well know fact that the majority of males have at some point in there life, actually 'tried' or 'tested' to see if they can actually reach there own penis with there mouth. Have you ever attempted such a fete?
FuiKaka
I don't normally talk football, but it would seem to me that whether there is a conspiracy or not LD, the issue would be pretty much irrelevent if Arsenal had found themelves a real enforcer to replace, say....Patrick Viera. You can always make an argument that it doesn't matter as the rules should always apply to protect gifted teams from thugs, and i can keep on spinning the reverse rhetoric (just for sport) We can even play with the fantasy that either of us gives a damn in the context of the world, the universe and everthing else. And yet, we both know it's a jungle out there: on the pitch, at the office, in the boardroom....even on this very site itself.It's a viscious war of attrition. You have got to protect yourself, cynically if you have to, because noone will be there to pick your crumpled body off the ground when it's over. Oh, and just your right hand Fuikaka, its always worked out fine for me in the past.
Tony Rocky Horror
everything else
Tony Rocky Horror
Fight fire with fire eh? A leg for a leg! The curious thing is that it's those teams that do play football against us who'll fare better than the cloggers. The team is maturing physically. It's less of a problem now than it was a couple of seasons back but no matter how physical we might play it won't prevent careless or reckless play or the use of excessive force, all explictly prohibited under the laws of the game, causing serious injury. The laws are there to reduce that risk - they just have to be upheld - and for people to recognise it as a breach of the laws.
Amos.
The tackling in the game between Spurs and Arsenal at White Hart lane will hot. Both sides will plough in full blooded. Someone could easily, EASILY get hurt. I can assure you excessive force WILL be used by both sides, egged on by the crowd: as it has ever been since time immemorial. What if Fabregas mistimed as he went into Modric and Luka snapped his leg...again? Do i come on here and accuse a good man like Fabregas of doing it on purpose (especially when i know full well the boot could have literally been on the other foot) Football is a contact sport and you will never, ever change that. Some people on this forum have also suggested that the fact that Shawcross didn't mean to hurt Ramsey is irrelevent because what he did was irresponsible. But he could claim, just as legitimately, that he was doing his job by tackling (albeit very clumsily) Ramsey. We couldn't live in a society where people were held totally accountable for their actions regardless of whether they intended to commit the 'crime' or not, not unless we were living in fascist state. That's why, for example, we have distinctions in law for 'manslaughter' and 'murder'.
Tony Rocky Horror
I can see why you don't normally talk football. Though keenly contested, games between Arsenal and Spuds aren't usually overly physical affairs. I think you need to put the Shawcross tackle into context. Ramsey offered no threat at the time playing in his own half of the pitch. Shawcross didn't go into the tackle trying to win possession because the force he used dictated that had he made contact with the ball he would have most likely conceded a goal kick or throw in. So the tackle served no real footballing purpose. Under the laws of the game Shawcross has a duty to "play in a manner that cannot be considered careless, reckless or uses excessive force". Shawcross did so and, as the laws dictate was duly sent off, after causing serious injury as a consequence of a careless or reckless act and/or the use of excessive force. Having done so it isn't then acceptable having broken the law to then publicly announce that you aren't going to change the way you behave any more than it is for a killer (to use your analogy) whether having committed murder or manslaughter to then announce he has no intention of changing his ways. You and others have been urged to read a piece which sets out this tendency for football to occupy a 'bubble' of social behaviour that is unacceptable elsewhere. The perspective is a good one so I'll repeat the link posted earlier. It would serve you and football in this country well to try to understand the point being made: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/06/aaron-ramsey-broken-leg-ryan-shawcross
Amos.
'You and others have been urged to read a piece which sets out this tendency for football to occupy a 'bubble' of social behaviour that is uncceptable elsewhere'......Well, that actually sounds a bit like pseudo cod psychology or whatever it was i accused of peddling. I am most fascinated (and it has to be said rather vindicated) by your recommendation of it to me. Whilst we are on the subject of what is and what is not socially acceptable, might i remind you politely that it is not neccesary to abuse people over the internet when reasonable discussion is all that is needed to move a debate forward. The internet is a public forum after all and must be used responsibly by those interact with it.
Tony Rocky Horror
What a bizarre conclusion to make from some helpful advice on reading matter! It makes absolutely no sense at all. That together with your pious preaching on the uses of the internet and your failure to even attempt to address the point made in the article rather confirms my suspicion that you are a phoney with no genuine interest in debate at all. That isn't abuse by the way. Not at all. It's just me 'offering some explanations for the ways people think and behave; even though the conclusions I come to may occasionally make uncomfortable reading for those who are the subject of its scrutiny.'
Amos.
Lol. Fascinating!!! :D
Zbam
Hi Tony Rocky Horror, I'm deeply interested in football literature and would greatly love to read your extensive critical essay on 'Lasgane Gate' - Please can you post a link to it? I don't doubt it's a lengthy tome so maybe start a new thread on our forum with it? Thanks, yours expectantly
nikolaijns
Hi nikolaijns, as a general rule i don't post my work on the wild wild west of the internet for reasons which i'm sure we needn't waste time discussing.......however, as its you, i'll see what i can do in the near future. What about you sir, are you an explicator of lengthy tomes?
Tony Rocky Horror
Oh, and i must say i enjoyed your vitriolic put down of a maurauding Spurs troll some weeks past. The prose style reminded me of Orwell's 'The Road to Wigan Pier'.
Tony Rocky Horror
bunch of wierdos...
Daz Hotspurs
You are indeed Daz. You are indeed.
Amos.
 

Have Your Say

Log in...
with your social network     OR     with your Vital account

Recent Arsenal Articles

Wilshere Ruled Out Till 2015 (Thursday November 27 2014)

Stats: Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund (Thursday November 27 2014)

Arsenal's Postman Arrives Early (Thursday November 27 2014)

It's The Positives That Worry Me (Tuesday November 25 2014)

Arteta: 'Shocked and Frustrated' (Monday November 24 2014)

The First Goal Matters (Saturday November 22 2014)

Archived Arsenal Articles

List All Vital Arsenal Articles
Have your say
Click here to suggest an article
Click here to suggest a poll

Vital Members League (view all)

1. Amos. 106
2. Naijagunner 59
3. paul_ownz 49
4. Galway Gooner 49
5. Wyn Mills 44
6. shewore 32
7. Joe_@** 21
8. Little Dutch 15
9. NYArse 14
10. Nwankwo25 14

League Results (view all)

Latest Results
Arsenal 1 - 2 Man Utd
Swansea 2 - 1 Arsenal
Arsenal 3 - 0 Burnley
Sunderland 0 - 2 Arsenal
Arsenal 2 - 2 Hull City
Chelsea 2 - 0 Arsenal

League Table (view table)

Team P W D L GD Pts
5. Newcastle 12 5 4 3 -1 19
6. West Ham 12 5 3 4 4 18
7. Swansea 12 5 3 4 3 18
8. Arsenal 12 4 5 3 5 17
9. Everton 12 4 5 3 3 17
10. Spurs 12 5 2 5 -1 17
11. Stoke 12 4 3 5 -2 15

Breaking League News

Team News: Manchester United v Hull
» Hull City : 29/11/2014 06:00:00
Team News: Swansea City v Palace
» Crystal Palace : 29/11/2014 06:00:00
Merson Predicts A Swansea City Win Though...
» Swansea : 28/11/2014 23:07:00
No Win Prediction Again From Mark Lawrenson
» Swansea : 28/11/2014 21:48:00
Kaikai Also Gets Loan Move
» Crystal Palace : 28/11/2014 21:25:00

Current Site Poll (view all polls)

With a stuttering start to the season what league position can we still reasonably aim for?
Suggested By:  
First 9%
Second 17%
Third 13%
Fourth 33%
Fifth or lower 25%
Still too early to bother with predictions 3%