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Team News: Arsenal v. Birmingham

Arsenal Starting XI: Fabianski, Eboue, Squillaci, Djourou, Clichy, Song, Diaby, Nasri, Wilshere, Arshavin, Chamakh

Arsenal Bench: Szczesny, Rosicky, Vela, Walcott, Denilson, Gibbs, Bendtner

Birmingham Starting XI: Foster, Carr, Johnson, Dann, Ridgewell, Larsson, Ferguson, Bowyer, Fahey, Hleb, Zigic

Birmingham Bench: Taylor, Murphy, Phillips, O'Connor, Derbyshire, Michel, Jiranek

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The Journalist

Writer: Brice Coffer Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Saturday October 16 2010

Time: 2:49PM

Your Comments

Geez our bench looks **** today. haha
insider says
Just in case we need to match Birmingham at their own game :D
Haha sorry I'm in a hotel room and don't have the Vital editing site with me. Even following the game from text stuff on news sites :( - so any update posted here is appreciated! Have to wait for Gkid to change our bench. :D
Trevor Francis and Rob Palmer on Sky. Tell me you are not blind please. You could see that the defender's foot made contact with Chamakh's. And even though Marouane made the most of it, it isn't the blatant dive that Palmer and Francis are making it out to be
Had to turn the commentary off after listening to those muppets spout all that bias arsenal bashing, what utter ballacks! Chamakh clearly had his a whack on his foot from a late challenge so its a penalty, no arguement. Then he gets a strong leading elbow to the head and they say 'why's he gone down'. shut the hell up!
insider says
The goal was down to bad marking, JD was edging his bets by covering the space infront and Clichy backed of the 6'5 guy but he probably wouldnt have had much chance anyway except the hope of putting him off his header. Based on play so far we should still win this though. 2 more in the second half please.
insider says
*****! Our bench looks alot better now....
We need to find a cutting edge or we could make things difficult for ourselves this game. I say we pull the gloves off; no more messing around. We must make the chances & possession count; and some calm heads around goal, please.

As for the commentaries, it is absolututely unbelievable how "un neutral" they sound. it is a shame, even counting the tackles made by Arsenal, as if to force the toga of a dirty team on us.
As for the game, that was a clear dive. MC was going down before the minimal contact was made. That will end up costing us in the long run.
2-0!!! Chamakh.
* 2-1!!! Lol.
Thats my boy!! 2-1 Chamakh
Awful challenge. Awful game.
Hard fought win. Credit to the boys. Went out there and "did a job"
Yeah poor challenge. Deserved red.
Wilshere has made a couple of those kind of challenges this season - maybe the red card will sort him out. Can't argue about the card.
Bad tackle, but I guess it's only 'full blooded' or 'committed' if the offending player is a talentless English clogger and the other player has his leg broken. Maybe Zigic should have been off already for elbowing Jack in the face?
Job done today anyway. Let's hope Chelsea drop points at The Villains. And "Thank you very much Van Der Sar"
Yes, to that one Eboue. If that was Almunia/Fabianski, we will be asking for his head by now or giving him a new name. And thats just the point, most GKs have had a clanger or two, this season, but we get too critical of our own. Well, I thought Fabianski had a good game today.
Yes undoubtedly Fabianski has done ok in the last 3,4 games he's played. He's slowly slowly bringing confidence into his game. Came strongly out for a couple of punches. Overall he dealt with the danger of Zigic and co. pretty well
Jack Wilshire and Arsenal Football Club? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Absolutely hilarious given Wenger took the chance to take the moral high ground and lecture the rest of the league in his programme notes. Also, Eboue's tackle was a disgrace: a 'scissors' tackle. In the words of Jaelle, 'One of the most dangerous in the game you can make'. LOL at the hypocricy and bare-faced cheek of it all.
Tony Rocky Horror
You sad ****. Stop watching our games when the spuds are playing. Wenger has called it as red and said it was deserved. The argument has never been Arsenal vs the thugs it football against the thugs you mug.
I didn;t watch Todays but I relieved we won. I heard the game finished with a Wilshere Red, I haven't seen it yet. But THR is a greater Arsenal fan than me. You are really bad at hiding that fact aren't you mate. Or you could just be a little little little little bit obsessed with Arsenal FC. Or you could even just be a troll pretending to hate everything about our club, but then that would mean you are obsessed with trolling. I honestly don't know which alternative is worse.
OHHHH dear, hit a nerve there did I, icepops? I didn't watch your game, I was watching my own team play the game the right way, (and winning of course) Instead of insulting me, maybe you'd like to explain the thuggery of your team, and join all right-minded people in being thankful that nothing horrific happened to the innocent Birmingham players?
Tony Rocky Horror
TRH - Do you know the meaning of hypocrisy? It seems not because at no time have anyone at arsenal claimed that we're not guilty of bad challenges. And you still don't get this whole tackling debate do you? We want these tackles punished, fairly and consistently, that is all. Wilshere was right to be sent off and no one has claimed otherwise. But watch all the real hypocrites now, in the media and on forums, who go and say that he deserves this and that when previously they claim it's a man's game etc. Grow up and at least act like you know what you're talking about, or just shut up.
insider says
You watched our game and you know it you sad little man, how else would you have seen the Eboue challenge? What else did Arsene say in the programme? You're Vital footballs Glen Close.
I wouldn't worry about any witch hunt against Jack Wilshire (which would be wrong), he's English. Unlike De Jong he won't have d.i.c.k.h.e.a.d.s on Vital, tribalfootball,talksport,youtube etc demanding his immidiate execution.
Happy days! We have some bite - faaakin av that you slags
The point is you stupid troll that you will not hear anyone on this site defend that challenge we accept it was a very poor challenge and well worthy of a red card.
I really don't see the issue with the penalty. I've just watched it again in slow mo and all angles and in my opinion his leg his taken away before he makes any movement to go down. He went down easily, that's true, I'm sure if he really wanted to stay on his feet he could have but contact was made, it was late and like i said he didn't do a Rooney or anything.
insider says
Oh hyprocisy is it?? Have you seen anyone here defending Wilshere's challenge or even GOD's challenge. Both of them were rightly booked and when have we said that it's only other teams putting in bad challenges. If any Arsenal player commits a bad tackle, we ourselves come out and condemn him. I suggest TRH get a good night's sleep seeing his "beloved" Spurs finally win a game of football and leave us alone here on VA
They're calling it a 'horror tackle' on the beeb even though only slight contact was made and it wasn't two footed. Compare that to the 'Fair challenge' from Cahill or the 'Diaby has clearly dived there, get up you weakling' after Robinson planted a full studded boot onto his lower leg at pace. Now that's hypocrisy!
insider says
Quote verbatim from 5 live: Caller: Somebody should hold Wenger's head towards the monitor and ask him what he thinks of Wilshire's tackle. Savage: He'd say he didn't see it. Caller: Hold his head.... Savage: He'd blame somone else... Says it all, really.
Tony Rocky Horror
Or maybe it's just ***** poor bias journalism.
insider says
Or maybe he has already said Wilshere deserved red? You really are thick. The fact you back a person like lily savage over Arsene Wenger says it all.
The fact that you hold Savage's opinion to such high esteem says a lot about you. Oh and about your little quip about winning fairly how fair was your winning goal?
"It looked like a red card". No ***** monsieur, it did 'look' like a red card, didn't it? I'm just wondering if Wenger told his team to get into peoples' faces? Disgusting.
Tony Rocky Horror
Phuck off you troll.
I think a decent yardstick on this is if you were speaking face to face, TRH clearly wouldn't last 5 mnutes in a "proper" conversation because whatever he says even the most dimwitted gooner would be able to respond without any doubts with facts. And relying on Robbie Savage for an argument I think should sound the death knoll for you time on here. You really need banning. Moron.
'Arry on the tiny tots controversial goal - "I didn't see nuffing. Well I just see Tom strike the ball and the ball end up in the far corner. What they're saying is they're not sure who got the final touch. IT WAS THE FINEST OF TOUCHES, I DON"T KNOW WHETHER IT SHOWS ON YOUR TV SCREENS, I haven't even asked William you know. Whether he got a touch on it i genuinely don't know (MASSIVE TWITCH), does it show on the tv? I haven't asked William you know (Twitch)" repeat repeat. The guy asking him the questions for the beeb was sooo far up his ass i wasn't sure if it was him making 'Arry twitch so much or the persistent lying.
insider says
Rocky, LD, Amos, please sort the long pending matter of the troll TRH. He needs banning for his own good as he is clearly mentally unhinged.
DF is right, It does take focus off the articles and generally prevents internal discussions about Arsenal matters. Although I wouldn't like to see him blocked or anything I would appreciate it if the Admins had a quiet word with TRH and told him to knock it off with all the insane unwanted distractions.
Good win today, esp with Chelsea and ManU dropping points. However, there were a couple of things that bothered me. Taking the foot off after 60 or so mins didn't hurt us this time, but this attitude will hurt in other games. We should have killed off the game early on. Another thing - I understand that our players like to create proper goals by passing the ball around, but if the Brum game plan is so clear that they got all their men back to defend, then with no space to work with, the players should take another approach by taking more direct shots on goal. That lack of flexibility could hurt us in future. But overall, good solid win and I', pleased with the points.
So who thinks Chamakh dived then? I suppose i'll first have to clarify a dive being, imo, when a player goes down without being touched with sufficient force or going to ground before any contact is made. I honestly don't think he went to ground early after looking at the slow-mo replays and his right foot was kicked away but he exagerated the motion.
insider says
The points were important at this stage. We need a little more snap in the final third but most of that will only come from players that didn't start this game. It looked like a penalty at the time and having now just seen a replay I think the ref got it right. Chamakh might have been able to stay on his feet but he would have needed to plant his right foot in front of him to do so. Dann prevented that from happening properly as I see it. It was a trip.
Its all about contact, IS. If it was about the playing going down to easy then 90% of penalties in the EPL wouldn't be given. And there was definitely contact today.
Not sure if it was clear from my comment but i thought it was a cast iron pen and i wanted to bring it up because all the media reports and calling it dodgy. gronedrone - it cant all be about contact either otherwise we'd have penalties awarded everytime someone went in the box. Any shoulder barge or merest of touches from a hand when a player subsequently falls to the floor like a sack of drogba would merit a penalty then. That ain't right! there has to be sufficient contact which can only be a judgemental call. The ref surprisingly did well today.
insider says
SI, you misunderstood me. What I meant is that it all comes down to contact if the player has gone down and the defender didn't get a touch on the ball. Basically what I was trying to say is that in many cases the player could have remained on his two feet but chose to go down in order to get the penalty. That would still be a pen eventhough simulation was involved. Wayne Rooney dived before contact was made on him by Almunia last season at OT but it was still a clear penalty because Almunia did eventually impede him and there is no rule which says Rooney should stay on his feet.
Chamakh tends to exaggerate his falls, which is what points the finger of suspicion towards a dive. I feel Chamakh was touched, but not enough to cause him to fall. Brum have a right to feel hard done by that decision.
Yeah, I agree about the contact however not with the Rooney bit. For a start Rooney booted the ball out of touch so was not in control of it, and secondly i believe contact must occur before any motion towards the deck happens otherwise it's a dive a deserves a yellow card. Chamakh has been guilty of going down early before, i forget which game, most of the time he goes down easily but after being fouled and just exaggerates the motion of falling, and sometimes he just has no choice and even the commentators can't complain. He needs to wipe the first case out all together, and his exaggeration is on the limit of being too much but then thats spot on as can be evidenced by the number of penalties he's genuinely won us.
insider says
Does no one at Vital Arsenal appreciate the irony of Arsene condemning bad challenges in the press and his official programme notes and then watching two of his players (Eboue being the other - how he only received a yellow for that scissor tackle is beyond me) committing the exact type of challenges he is purportedly trying to have expunged from the game? Nobody is calling either of your players dirty, although Wilshere does look to have a bit of a temper on him. Neither is anyone suggesting that Wenger is telling Arsenal players to deliberately go out and try to hurt opponents. But I do have this feeling that the gooners fans seem to think they are above such things and only play shiny happy football. You clearly are just like everyone else, and whilst Arsene has come out and accepted the red card, it isn't like he had much choice given his earlier rant about such incidents!
Wilshere is not that type of player, if we take that challenge out of the game blah, blah, blah. TRH, you can't simultaenously say bad tackling is a figment of our imagination and then rejoice when one of our players does it. If you had any sense, you'd join the debate rather than dismissing it until an Arsenal player is guilty and dismissing it when we're vicitms. It makes you look the bitter moron that you are. Seriously, totally that was a red card, nobody would sensibly say otherwise, despite TRH's twisted wet drems. I was annoyed that, in the last 10 mins, we seem reluctant to put our foot through the ball and ******** well clear it when that's what's called for, when you're defending a 1 goal lead in the last minute. No need for these fancy flicks at that stage that you see our players try.
Little Dutch
No irony filthyliarblue, we want bad challnges stamped out, whether it's by one of our players or someone else's. Not hard to understand if you want to. The fact that you rushed over here so quickly now, shows you never wanted to be part of the debate, you just wanted to bring petty club bias into it to try and stop the debate as soon as you could.
Little Dutch
Put it this way, McLeish has complained about the tackle and rightly so, but nobody is slagging him off the way AW was slagged off when Ramsey and Eduardo were injured. Hypocrites.
Little Dutch
Arsene said it was red, wilshere has said on our official site it was deserved. Do you want blood FB? If so you are better off looking at Xabi Alonsos chest or Ben Arfas sock.
Good article over on Another Arsenal Blog -
insider says
Touched a nerve LD? I suspect I have, otherwise you wouldn't resort to silly name calling. Both of the challenges committed by your players today were worse than the DeJong tackle on BenArfa, and I am impressed that you are not choosing to defend eitherr of your players. But it is incredible that Wenger can pontificate so loudly about a subject that is clearly close to his heart (and I accept that it should be given the injuries to both Ramsey and Eduardo) yet then have two of his players commit ridiculously dangerous tackles. My point is not about whether or not these types of tackles should be clamped down on, they clearly should - but kindly spare the rest of football the "poor Arsenal" act, because your team is just as guilty as any other, although I suspect the player the Sky Sports website is describing as a "rising star" will not be subject to the same witch hunt as DeJong experienced simply because he's English and he plays for you, not an upstart team like City who clearly have no right to challenge the top 4 cartel.
Arsene said just this Thursday that every individual player is responsible for their own behaviour on the pitch? Did I miss something, did wenger two foot someone today? No, he condemned a bad tackle which is what he has always done, you're better off ringing talk*****e to discuss this FB, more your level.
But it was never about the poor Arsenal act. Wenger said tyhese tackles should be stamped out of football. He didn't say they should stop happening to Arsenal players and noone else. The problem is, you read the headlines and not the comments. The reason de Jong is getting his collar felt is because in seven months he'sbroken two legs and cracked a set of ribs. Arsenal have never commented on de Jong though, so I don't quite know why you're making that point here other than the fact the Sun newspaper has told you to.
Little Dutch
OT. Just watching the Malaga V Real Madrid game. Our ex-boy, Owusu Quincy-Abeye is really turning on the style with party tricks on the Barca defenders, to good effect I must add. He does look a quality player. Pity there was little room for him here.
Kindly spare us the story off poor old man city being picked for trying to break into the top 4, load of bollox. The media are so far up the spuds arse it's a joke and they broke into the "cartel" so did Everton and nobody disliked them either.
All that's important at the moment is that Jack Wilshere is o.k.
Little Dutch
*picked on*
good to see some of you accept the player dived and that the red card was deserved....and wenger backs his talk for once "seeing" .....a step in the right direction i think....dont think willshire is really the dejong type of player.....just the adrenalin of youth..... and how are you professor amos?....cheers
FB- You seem to think that just because AW has stood up and spoken out about a subject that is clearly an ugly scar on the game that consequently any bad tackle made by one of his players means he is now wrong in his opinions and must default. It's like he must choose between being a football manager who actually has a voice in the game (altho sadly not a respected one it seems) or a manager who just doesn't care, who closes his eyes and bends over for the FA and any other neanderthal to take advantage of.
insider says
The difference in reaction is marked - no one (inc Wenger) is saying ' Ohh but he's really not that kind of player' as the only explanation, or that 'Wilshere is just a good lil mama's boy'. There is a genuine acceptance of responsibility. However, it is ironic that Wenger's comments on bad tackles in the matchday programme are immediately followed by an Eboue scissor tackle and a bad one from Wilshere. It hurts his credibility when he talks about bad tackles.
It would only hurt Wengers credibility in the eyes of those who didn't listen to what he has said. He has accepted that we make bad tackles too. "I do not say I get an unfair press, its not about me this story, its about the players who play football with the right intention. Don't take me wrong we make as well sometimes bad fouls and I have the same responsibility than you" Wenger Sept 19th. Wilshere made a bad tackle - he got a red card for it - job done. If every bad tackle was similarly punished there wouldn't be a debate about it.
It will hurt credicibility, but it shouldn't. AW has never said he only wants responsible tackling against his own team. The prolem is, the press who've decided it's a non issue that AW is merely whingeing about, will think nothing now about all of a sudden deciding it is an issue now that is suits them. Filthyarbllue's post demonstrates exactly that mindset.
Little Dutch
@prits...wenger did not say from other teams,he said from the game which means all teams but he cant control what happens on the pitch,only deal with discipline after the game...he normally dodges questions but to this one he has aptly replied,if he had dodged the question it would have been a different matter
Why should it hurt his credibility? The meaning of his words and the consequence of these tackles remain the same, it's only when people are listen to the misrepresentation that they are so easily led. The Irony is a bitter pill to take but he has shown straight away that he above all that.
insider says
Well who would have imagined that -
insider says
"I was watching my own team play the game the right way" says TRH. hmmm, Huddlestone didn't look very corinthian when he was screaming in the ref's face.
Little Dutch
So what do the Arsenal fans think? Was it a dive? To me personally, yes. I mean there was hardly contact and he was just looking to go down, that to me is a dive.
There was definitely contact. Was it enough to bring him down? If that were a criteria used then a number of penalties given against us in the past wouldn't have been given. Was it enough to impede Chamakh's progress? It was certainly more than enough for a number of penalties also given against us. I can understand B'ham not seeing it as a pen just as much as us gooners have also had to accept a number of less justified penalties. Dann had no chance of getting the ball. He took a risk. It didn't pay off. They go for us and they go against us. No need for us to not accept those that go for us any less than we have to accept those that go against us.
I won't be surprised if Chamakh gets blatantly fouled next time and the ref waves it away, he's slowly gaining a reputation for being a diver.
I think it was a penalty. Although yet again he made sure of it. But how many penaltys has he "won" you this season? Maybe im being a tad harsh but every time almost ive seen you this season ive shouted out "Diving Git" at the TV at Chamakh as hes flung himself into the air again, usually 2 or 3 times per match. I didnt like Ginola when he did it, i dispise Gerrard for doing it, Chamakh seems like something else though!!
In fairness, I've yet to see Chamakh out and out dive. That is to say, go down with no contact. But let's say he makes sure the ref sees any contact. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go down under no contact at some point though, I have to say.
Little Dutch
I agree that this should not hurt Wenger's credibility, but I was simply making the point that it inevitably will, given the way people perceive Wenger's opinion on this matter.
It was a soft penalty, no doubt, but there was contact, so what's a striker supposed to do? A dive is when there is no contact at all, Chamakh just made sure the ref noticed the touch the Birmingham defender made on him! Whether it would have denied him a goal scoring chance is another matter, but refs will generally give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in such situations. We all hate it when it goes against our team, but you can't really blame a striker for making the most of a situation like that.
The following will happen, he'l do a high profile dive, get vilified for it, he'l realise as Drogba & Ronaldo did that its different here in old Blighty and he'l change his ways. He's theatrical but he wouldnt even make the top 10 divers in La Liga it's that bad at times.

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