Braga-Arsenal Team Line-ups

What is this new fangled strikerless formation? Zzzzzzzzzzz

Cesc off with hamstring injury. When it rains...

What?!?!?!??!? Poor Carlos...

I'm beyond caring.

lots of red shirts in the braga box

What's that record we've got in away CL games? It's absolutely ridiculous, our inability to keep clean sheets.

I can already see Wenger coming out to blame the wrong ref decision. I'm sick of this.

I can also see Wenger saying that the second goal happened when we tried to equalise and get caught on the break. To say I'm sick is an understatement.

Easiest group too. Something is badly badly wrong.

Mentality is all wrong in this team. They're not winners, despite what Arsene keeps telling us. That was an awful performance against frankly a very ordinary side.

Nice one Arsene, start with dreck like Bendtner the white Heskey & wheres wally away from home, it's got Belgrade 0-1 all over it and we fuc*in deserve to get knocked out tbf. Sick to death of the arrogance and spinelessness and utter ineffectuality of half this squad. Strongest ever my arse how the hell can that be said with a straight face??

Even I feel so let down, having to get up at 3:30am to watch this 5h!te, I can imagine how god awful the travelling Gooners there must be feeling. Now can someone remind me why Bendtner moaned about his lack of games again? What did he do?

I don't understand why we throw so many players forward when we are winning or drawing a game. If we are losing a game it's obviously understandable. Getting caught short at the back time and time again, it's just unbelievably stupid.

Are you going to come out of your Europa League group?

And we thought Saturday was bad.

Never mind the top spot. We just have to get out of this group. And I'm glad to see the record consecutive seasons of making it to the knock-out stage is on the line. Mr Wenger please sort it out, thanks.

We are a fragile side at the moment. You wouldn't think it would be possible to make exactly the same mistakes again so soon. Nobody seems to be taking responsibility. Not sure that we have anyone who can.

I wonder why our players can't stop piling pressure onto themselves when they can't take it...?

While I'm at it that ref!!!! waaaaaaankkkker. Ridiculous prancing peacock. Utterly clueless officiating from beginning to end.

He'd prefer not to talk to anyone I'm sure. There's no point blaming the refs., we should have been able to come away with something from this game, but what are those extra goal line officials for?

Wenger talked about taking advice from the expert on Cesc, if we are taking advice from an expert about then why should we risk him in the first place. He obviously can't play more than twice a week with his hamstring. We are being cautious with Arshavin and Song who are not even injured but completely careless with Cesc. Hopefully the its not a long term injury. At half time I thought we were a bit hesistant in attack and nobdoy wanted to zip the ball about out of fear of making a bad pass (even Cesc). But overall we were cautious and priotised defending over attacking which was good. But in the second half we dominated posession but never really threatened, after the Vela penalty which was denied we looked ragged. We made the same dumb mistake from the Sp*rs match. Denilson as the last man with everybody thrown up for set piece. Another mistake Wenger made was to make all three subs with more than 10mins left. It was very physical game and when Vela had been subbed on I was constantly thinking about how another Cesc type injury could leave us down to 10 with a lot of time to play still.

Hilarious......wenger as gracious in defeat as ever.....dispicable little man.

Yes DS, I was one of those. And I don't see how calling for the manager to make early subs is the same calling for the manager not to make to many subs. And you know what, I was still calling for the manager to make substition in this game. Our first sub came at 68 mins, and even that was forced due to Cesc's injury.

JP don't think they are that advanced in the mountains, Beetamax or VHS at best.

nice one Iceman ;)

stone wall penalty u guys should have been given and its a different game from then on in. im a spurs fan but im gutted for ya as i want all the prem teams to do well in europe.

I got to say Bravo to Braga though. They got their tactics spot, which isn't that difficult really against. Almost every team deploys these tactics against Arsenal but still the Arsenalistas got it right and their front man was pretty clinical in front of goal.

Another thing...Cesc's body language doesn't look great to me. I would hazard he already figures this team won't win anything.

Though it was a stone-wall penalty I'd rather we don't focus too much on it. We got bigger worries than ref's not giving us pen's. At least is not as bad as last season when, we opposition defenders could do just as they pleased in the penalty box and get away with it. I'm confident if that was another ref it would've been given.

And I know Koscielny didnt play in Braga.........just making the point he is lightweight and crap.

He's better than Denilson, who as far as I can see can't (or is unwilling) to defend or pass properly.

I don't think Wenger's 4-6-0 formation today worked. Or was it a 0-10-0 formation? Yes the referee was atrocious, but that Braga team would definitely be in the relegation zone in England and we should have found a way to win.

I've said it before dont change a winning team. They are paid top dollar(pound) so flog them week in week out all this changing around it wont work.

Even after a good nights sleep I still feel like ****. Watching replays of the goals we conceded and they're so bad I actually find myself laughing. Its atrocious stuff really.

David Dein, whatever his faults, would never have allowed Wenger to get away with this rubbish. Blaming his opponents and the officials rather than looking in the mirror and at his own players. Yes, the referee had a stinker. Yes, Braga were cynical and cautious. But for goodness sake Wenger this isn't new to you surely??! You sit there and watch your team pass the ball around for 70 minutes barely mustering a single shot on goal and have the temerity to insult us fans with talk of 'bad luck'. Bad luck is when you hit the opposing team's woodwork half a dozen times or your defender slips when chasing down an attack. Bad luck is not 3 defenders surrounding the goal scorer without one putting in a challenge. Bad luck is not a single attempt on goal in 70 minutes (and that being a freekick). It's been said often enough 'you make you own luck', and in last nights game we never made anywhere near enough. The one time we ventured into the box Vela was chopped down and should have got the spot kick. But for Wenger to call that a turning point is frankly ridiculous. He needs to take a good hard look at himself and his team and decide what he needs to do to change the mentality. Because the way things are at the moment I wouldn't back this team to win the Carling Cup.

Straw clutching? What the hell are you on about? Lest you forget it was Dein who had the vision to bring Wenger to the club in the first place. Yes, he didn't want the stadium. (Perhaps because he realised what a soulless place it would becom. But you cannot deny Dein cared about the team doing well and winning silverware. It aint straw cluching its trying to make sense of what Wenger is telling us and what is happening on the pitch. My point is Wenger needs help and he isn't getting it. His decision making isn't being challenged at the club. How is that ill-informed? Do you know something us silly little children do not? Please, share your superior knowledge with us.

I understand you don't like Dein but please read my post before launching into your dismissive rant. Nowhere have I stated that this defeat (or others) was down to Dein not being around. What I said was Wenger is spouting a load of ********* about luck. Yes, he has become a less gracious loser. No doubt about it..because he isn't winning anything anymore. Incidentally, Dein wasn't actually against the idea of the stadium per se, just the method of financing it.

Wyn Mills, no question about your points about a lack of spirit, defensive fortitude, not learning from past mistakes. Absolutely spot on. But David Dein? I can understand yearning for players like Vieira, Pires and Henry who would take games like Braga and Spuds by the scruff of the neck and win it for us but what has David freakin Dein got to do with an alarming slump of form for the team?

If Wenger is spouting bollox about luck, tackling, referees or anything else now it's really no different from what he was saying in the first half of his tenure. The difference for some fans is that what he says when he isn't winning becomes a lot easier to beat him with than when we are. Believe it or not we have had worse slumps than this. 3 or 4 game losing streaks weren't unknown even when we did go on to win things. Doesn't make it any more palatable now but it certainly doesn't mean we have to invent nostalgic nonsense about Dein or indulge in airy fairy waffling about lack of spirit, weak mentality or lack of bottle.

David Dein would have done only what Wenger told him he wanted done. It's a myth that somehow he was this strong dominant figure that steered the club or any of its officials in a direction that they didn't want to go. There's a telling piece in Kevin Whitcher's book that tells how even George Graham could treat him dismissively. Dein was a great networker and great at self promotion but the club is where it is today because of more important and far sighted controbutions from folk other than Dein.

Incidentally, in Pires autobiography he says that everything for his transfer was handled by Wenger. He didn't meet or speak to any of the directors of the club until he had already signed and was at the training ground. Dein's role in these things has always been overstated.

You seem to think I'm advocating bringing Dein back. I'm not stupid. Bridges have been burned. What I am advocating is someone helping Wenger before his dream descends into fantasy.

Amos, so was Wenger was spouting even more ********* when he said “David Dein is needed in football because this guy has revolutionised this club (Arsenal) and also English football. He is top quality."

DF, I don't hate Wenger. (Why do people always confuse criticism with dislike?) In fact I admire what he has done for the club and am not one of those calling for his head. I'm not trying to paint Dein as a Saint. I'm pointing to the role he played when he was at the club. That's all. The responses to my post says more about the antipathy to Dein than my concerns about Wenger.

If you look dispassionately at the development of this club then only one man has been the principal architect of the club we have now and that is Wenger. Fortunately he had someone in Fiszman who was prepared to back his vision and to deliver on it. Dein played a role but not a pivotal one. On may of the key factors Wenger didn't agree with Dein's wishes. Just as Mick Jagger was only the singer in Keith Richard's band Dein was just a frontman. All the real talent was behind him.

I really didn't want this to descend into a David Dein discussion. The focus needs to remain on Wenger. And I mean someone has to shine a spotlight on the guy. Seriously.

DF, Yes, its in the press. But is it being discussed in the boardroom? I'm not sure I'm seeing Ivan sitting down to dinner with Wenger in Koffmans and saying: "Now Arsene, I'd like to have a chat about our trophy cabinet..." Its not novel. But does that mean you don't discuss it?

The contention that because Dein bought Wenger in that he is responsible for everything Wenger has done is incredibly tedious. If Dein is allowed to live off that piece of glory from 14 years ago, isn't Wenger allowed to live off past glory too? He signed Patrick Vieira after all! You know Hitler nearly died at childbirth because the umbilical chord was wrapped around his neck. The midwife saved his life. Attributing the success of the Wenger era to Dein is like attributing the holocaust to that midwife.

'airy fairy waffling about lack of spirit, weak mentality or lack of bottle'. Amos are you joking i think is it pretty obvious that this team leacks fighting spiit and dosen't have the winning mentality of our side five-six years ago!!

Not obvious at all saint_gunna but as it's impossible to quantify there's little to stop anyone making those claims. It falls into the same category LD defined earlier as being the fall back when you don't really know what the problems are or the solution is. So it'll do.

I've just offered an opinion. It's just a little different from the default setting that's all. I'd imagine condescension is better illustrated by someone insisting that their opinion is 'pretty obviously' the right one more than by anything I've said.

missing gallas boys? lmfao gotta love it ain't ya

Another infestation it seems. I hope Stratfords pest control department is a bit better than Totnum's.

Not like the spuds to shout the odds before an event is it? Over the last 50 years their annual predictions of their imminent glory, unassailable superiority and dominance of world football have proved so accurate that surely it would be foolish to dismiss their current bullishness (in contrast to their half time posts last weekend) as just more delusion wouldn't it?

I hear Stratford are preparing contingency plans after 2012 to assist in moving on an anticipated increase on matchdays of spuds to be found sitting on benches shouting at buses and/or pigeons.

So sorry to labour the point, but if we're six feet under and you're four points below us, where does that put you? It seems North London wanted to keep us, but it isn't too keen on keeping you. Can't blame them.

Silly, pathetic little Arsenal fans. As usual rising to the taunts of those with a superior intellect. We dont care about your stadium, your french baguettes or even that your manager is a kiddie fiddler...we just find it amusing that you are all exactly the same. Mindless, gullible, simple little pikeys with a superiority complex because you now play an inferior version of the same attractive football that we invented over 50 years ago. Go on little Frenchies, return to your reclusive tin sheds and watch the re-runs of seasons gone by when you may have commanded a titter of respect from your fellow man...Ooh La La my BonBon Jambons!!

Amos, LD, you got the public money at the time, because your directors were waving their red begging bowl to Labour Govt. (again red colour as their party!!) who were spending money without any fiscal prudence. Now the world and UK especially, is suffering financially, (partly thanks to G Brown and friends, selling Uk's gold reserves etc.) see if AFC could get the same deal... I would say you will not be successful... At least THFC has £400m and Levy is rightly refusing to be stiched up by a Labour Council who would have difficulty managing a childs pocket money...

Well spurs do have a wealthy (£500m) owner in Joe Lewis, and his Hedge Fund associates can easily raise the private funds, using the gearing up method. ALso a rights issue on the London Stock Exchange will raise another few millions. So we are set for £400m +

Some spurs fans simply don't realise the complexity of their situation in terms of stadium development at WHL. They still have to obtain consent from the Mayor, with opposition on transportation grounds and onerous planning permission conditions. They also need to compulsory purchase properties around the site, as well as other related problems while raising an enormous amount of finance (current estimate £480m and rising) in difficult times. All this has to be done within a certain time frame if they are to comply with FIFA's impending financial regulations. It took Arsenal years to put everything together, which is what Levy and Co are beginning to appreciate.

We sincerely hope you qualify from your Europa League group.

And the Emirates is built on industrial land between two railway corridors. Imagine the environmental objections coming their way once the true logistics of trying to crowbar a huge crowd venue into a poorly connected high street become better known. It will cost Spurs much much more than the price of the actual stadium to get this off the ground.