Wenger Suspended For 2 Further Games By UEFA

This decision is so so ridiculous. Where do these guys get to do things like this? I am sure we have seen many suspended Managers sending word to the bench, one way or another. If you think about it, it is all down to the pressure occasioned by the lack of team depth that necessitated the need to send word down to Rice. Surely, Pat Rice should have been trusted to take the right decisions after so many years under the manager! It is getting soooo frustrating now.

Naija - behave. Nikolaijns - nonsense.

Oh, I see; this isn't about sensible discussion, it's about ranting. Sorry, you guys carry on.

Wheres the sensible considered debate from you then? A one word derogatory put down then a back down about not wanting to play anymore? Wow you've really changed my whole world viewpoint there.

That respect that he so worthily built was nothing less than fully merited. The fact that this respect is eroding on a minute by minute basis is also fully justified. If the board is hanging you out to dry then have the balls and f*** any imagined loyalty and come out and give everyone the truth. As we have just spent 12 mill on Oxlade Chamberlain I find this supposition highly unlikely. If my old man was watching from the touchline with the behaviour Wenger has been exhibiting then yes I would prefer he'd rather stay the hell at home as it would cut to the core of my very being as much as any supporter chant. Lastly I have never played championship manager in my life but given the fact everyone of us knew fabregas would leave this summer to allow that to happen without signing any form of replacement is gross negligence and is an act so utterly inexcusable that even the most head in sand ostrich lalalala fingers in ears everything is rosy dipstick cannot have any defence for.

Basically as far as I'm concerned this off season was Wengers' last chance. He has rectified nothing, not one single solitary sodding thing. We have a vastly weakened squad and have allowed the season to begin in what can only be described as pretty much every sane supporters worst nightmare. Sold our 1st choice left back with the expectation a brittle boned crockchild will have a successful full season with no serious back up or competition, he hasn't lasted 3 games, who saw that coming? likewise despite offloading the clown Eboue we have no real back up for Sagna. One fit CB going into what is arguably the most important game since the final of the same competition. Half hearted unrealistic vaguely insulting bids, more children promoted no experience incoming aside from Gervinho whose experience extended to repetitive simulation and a pathetic girly slap to earn him a red on his debut. It's a shambles an absolute f****** shambles everywhere you look both on and off the pitch, a new owner who has done nothing, no outlay no plan, no statements of intent. I've had silent sharts that have given me more. It is a real clusterf*** and the worst thing of the entire sorry debacle is that it is wholly 100% self inflicted.

Damn, so negative! It's really not that bad, is it, Niko?!

I only wish it wasn't mate. I have defended Arsene to the hilt season after season but I just cannot do it any more. I will support this club til my bitter end but I refuse do do it with any form of blinkers or rose tints. I will always call it how I see it. We have what 9 days to instigate some form of plan to turn this fearful form around yet still it appears hands are being sat on. It is actually heartbreaking being prescient to what is effectively a slow motion car crash involving something you've invested so much time and passion in.

Niko is obviously very emotionally tied to the failures, but I don't see anything factually incorrect with his assessment. New majority ownership with no statement of intent or plan for the club? check. Players gone with no replacements? check. Best CM in the world predictably gone with no replacement? check. Weakened squad ravaged by injury? check. Wenger trotting out LANS? check. Seems pretty accurate to me. I'll even go a step further and point out we've missed out on Enrique and Mata that we know of and have apparently made no serious effort at a CB or any senior players for that matter.

Smith, there's a differnece between what you or I may know and what exists. Just because we don't know what's happening doesn't mean that nothing's happening. Seeing as you use the word 'factually' (great reminder of the Fat Spanish Waiter, that!), the only fact I can see in your post is that Lansbury played...

Nasri better than cesc? put down the pipe! Ramsey is nowhere even close to wilshere let alone fabregas. He will be a great player no doubt but not this season, this season which was so important to reinstall deteriorating faith in an increasingly isolated manager. Re wages we are hardly shrinking violets in that dept are we? So three clubs in the league have a higher wage bill, does that justify the lackadaisical fannying about in buying a playmaking CM? of course it doesn't. Jesus I'd even have some shred of faith if Nasri or Arshavin had been deplyed there as both have far more vision for the creative role than they ever will out on the wing, your arguments belie the fact you are quite young as does the ticket price defence, it was inopportune to say the least and a real tactless kick in the stones to put it bluntly, not something that couldn't have waited til the following season after some sensible outlay had been made to improve in key areas and assure the support that steps in the right direction were being made to ensure some value for their expenditure, oh wait that's far too sensible isn't it? Anyhow my piece has been said and I agree with not one thing you have put forward either, let's reconvene this after another 10 games and see where we stand eh?

RE: Ticket Prices. If I'm not mistaken the ticket price increase is ok because it remained flat for several years probably falls flat I think. If I'm not mistaken the prices were increased pretty dramatically and then held at that level for some time. You'd have to ask LD on that though.

Ahhh, got you Smith. AW did say that recently, yeah; made me giggle! In that case, there's still only one fact in the post...!

I get you Niko. I'm not saying you're wrong Niko. I agreed with your sentiments, I was simply pointing out that your obvious emotion attachment to the ideas does not necessarily make your ideas incorrect.

It is tricky to see when it will turn around; I can't believe how many injuries we've had to suffer, and for so long. It has to end soon, doesn't it??

I know my club is in trouble when fans like Niko and Proffesor Calculous are feeling the strain. These guys have been members here for years, and this is not some tantrum or anything, as Niko said, he's backed Wenger as long as I've known him (what 5 years now?) and I was the same. People are starting to doubt Wenger now because they have legitimate reason to do so. Hopefully the old man can pull a rabbit out of the hat, but I'm begining to think not.

I remember the season we signed Arshavin. We were crying out for a creative player. I got the sense that Wenger only made that signing when pushed and even then we only did it on the last minute of the transfer window! We need three miracles in 8 days: beating Udinese; beating United; and signing some feckin players!

No one here is failing to acknowledge all that Wenger has done for this club and this team. I think the people that are the most upset right now are some of us who have absolutely supported and believed in what he was doing. Unfortunately it is starting to look like either the club is genuinely misleading us and there really is no money still or he is tarnishing his own reputation for the sake of not caving on his belief of builiding a winning squad on the cheap. I was pleased at the end of last season to hear he recognized we had deadwood who had been given enough chances. He has sent some on their way which is good as Eboue and Denilson are not good enough... BUT he hasn't replaced them. Would we have been better or worse against Liverpool with Eboue and Denilson on the field? Bendtner is free to go but he has been replaced by Chamakh who, imo, is not as good as Bendtner. That poor kid has never been allowed to play as anything but right winger and that's pathetic. We're short a quality Left Back, We need a CB that can push Kos and Verm for their positions, as a rotation may actually keep us from breaking down in January. Basically we've given up some mediocre squad players, the best center mid in the world, we're in the process of losing our 2nd best attacking midfielder and the boss has known all summer long we needed to strengthen... AND DONE NOTHING that remotely resembles strengthening. Either tell us we have no money and 4th place and a decent cup run is all we can hope for or swallow your pride and buy suitable quality to challenge. That doesn't require untold barrels of black gold. Simply an effort to upgrade our players year over year and coach them to be more effective.

So who outbid us for our attempts at buying a quality left back? (nevermind for the moment the creative players or the CB that Wenger himself identified as necessities.)

DF, It is almost like a conspiracy against Wenger; even his old mates and kin, back in France, are turning their backs on him, one after the other. The lesson: Move early in the window instead of waiting for rush hour!

not having much luck is he?

Just saw United steamroll Spurs. Tough game coming up for our lads on Sunday, without Song or Frimpong. The team just needs to lower its expectations in that game and just be compact and hope to pull off a draw. Of course, a lot could change depending on how Wednesday goes and if we get in any inspiring player before the weekend.

NG, United looked SOLID. We look frail. After 6 years, i would have expected our kids to have grown up and playing the telepathic football Wenger dreamed of. The problem is the good ones have left and the rest are just potential on high salaries and that's it. Where is that kid Wellington? My last gripe is about Almunia and Cygan. Ever since they started with us, i said they were not super-quality (insert your own joke here). Wenger persevered for a few years saying they would be full internationals soon. They were never capped. Where are they today? Talk about rubbish.

If we're contesting the ban does that mean It will not come into affect for Wednesday's match?

Dear oh dear, easier for you to pidgeonhole people to avoid any uncomfortable home truths is it alwaysgunner? the West Ham Millwall derby comment was just making light so no need to get your frillies in a twist. You have no argument for any of the points I've made though, not one single counter argument, just tired macho Oi Oi Oim a geeezaah abuse. But yeah rounding on fellow gooners with the guff you just have is far more acceptable than questioning the increasingly bizarre actions of our manager isn't it?

I echo that Rocky. It just ain't 2 games. We are just continuing from where we left off. I am not saying we won't win the league. I am just saying that on this form and the current state of the squad, i don't see how it is going to happen unless something happens.. We not only need fresh additions, we need our young players to grow up and for one or 2 of them to emerge and have a breakthrough season. For example Song's stupidity and refusal to learn has hurt his team. I cant imagine a United player (unless its Rooney whom the FA can't touch) doing that but it keeps happening to us.

You spent 13 years in the Mob alwaysgunner? You in witness protection now? Good counter argument though, really valid points re, errmm, errr....Niko being like girls?

You're being calm, rational and considered damiano. Not good qualities on a football forum I'm afraid..... but I do like it. Alwaysgunner is being emotional, passionate, unconsidered and reactive which are usually good qualities for a football forum but only fully appreciated if going with the herd....I still like it though :)

Fair play Amos! A mate of mine goes nuts whenever the slightest thing goes against the club; I have to remind her that it's existed for 215 years and one bad week isn't the end of the world. On-topic though, and a bit more forum-like-rant-esque, when are things going to start going our way? It seems that for a number of years, referee decisions, disciplinary actions and injuries have been solidly agianst us. This decision, RvP's red card, players getting banned retrospectively (like Song for a step/stamp, take your pick) on barton but nothing for breaking Arsenal players' legs...Things do tend to 'even themselves out', but they definitely haven't around Arsenal for a long time now. We're owed SOOOO much luck - anyone who believes in karma must have a good feeling about the Arsenal!

Shewore - players out (by the end of the game): Song - Koscielny - Gervinho - Gibbs - Wilshere - Djourou - Diaby - Frimpong - Rosicky (surely, he's always injured!) - and some others that I can't name off the top of my head. So, two centre-backs, a full-back, two holding midfielders, three attacking midfielders and our new winger. Cue a debate on how useful those players are, but it's easy enough to argue that 5 are top-class and 8/9 of them would have been used if available (rather than teenagers).

Shewore, you can't base ticket prices directly on matchday performance. Perhaps collect your £50 on the way out of the stadium when the team loses? pay an extra £100 on your way out when it wins? A business has to forecast, budget, plan, survive. Imagine if we had spent £200m on players, all on 100k/week; how high would ticket prices need to be then??

Glad to see that some of the old timers here are staring to see the light. As for those still believing that something will happen now as opposed to the last 6 years I have not seen a single argument put forward as to why this has not been a disastrous summer and looks like being a sign of things to come in the winter. No one that has called for Wenger's head is any less of a supporter or less loyal, just that we cant see any hope of the manager changing his mind or approach. And if there is not a drastic change in the next week we are looking at a long and hard football winter. Looking at the squad this year and comparing that with last year on we are so much weaker and how on earth was that allowed to happen? By NOT replacing Cesc and Nasri as early as June and not getting players in to fill the holes left by Clicy, Denilson and Bendtner if he leaves.

Maybe we didn't value Enrique at all? Everyone can have a different opinion about which players we should let go and which we bring in but whether either action strengthens or weakens the team will only become clear by the end of the season. Maybe the season will be a total disaster maybe not. If it's a disaster then there's always another season in which to get it right. The world won't come to an end. Just enjoy the ride.

But then Wenger's presence on the touchline these days just puts pressure on your fans and players alike. He looks so frustrated that I really pity him.

Football's all about opinions, and fortunately (for a discussion forum) mine are very different to yours. For me, prices have gone up because of inflation and having frozen them previously. I understand Arsenal tickets are more expensive than most (all?) others in the premier league though, and that does need justifying - but you could argue that attendance sets ticket prices; you don't like them, you don't go. But the logic still follows; you charge 1/10th of the ticket price, your club's income falls by 80-odd percent, you then can't afford to repay loans, buy players or pay wages. It has been said that the commercial deals in place are a little poor, but I don't know enough about them to comment. AFC making profit is a good thing; I think there's a tendency in the footballing community that if a club is making money and not p1ss1ng it away on players every six months then 'the board are all money grabbing scumbags'. It is the job of the players and staff at a club to make it as successful as possible, and I for one like how Arsenal's house is in order, and know that we're not going broke anytime soon. Can Man*****y, Chelski, or Yank United say the same? Particularly now the fair play rules are kicking-in? The first sign of its effect is that City have not even registered Adebayor, Bridge and or Bellamy (please correct if I'm wrong) because only a certain number of players that haven't been at the club since youth are allowed. The performance of our very weakened side against Liverpool - who are on the crest of a wave - impressed me, so I don't agree that performances are getting worse. Nor doI agree that we have a terrible blend (of anything) - this is a club that finished right near the top of the premier league last year, and were a few bits of bad luck away from going all the way; finalists in the league cup; beat Barca in the champs. league and had a damn good chance of winning the tie (but for a shocking referee decision and an even more shocking Cesc back-pass). We lose a CM and LB, sign a couple of wingers and suddenly we're nowhere? No, i don't buy it. it will be disappointing if, in 7 days' time, we haven't signed new players because the numbers are a tad low for me (no more than that); but even then, not the end of the world, and who knows just how hard the club has tried to sign players, or why they haven't arrived? Maybe the negativity of the fans and media are putting off potential signings - who wants to be booed in their first home league game of the season? I respect Wenger sticking to value. Yeah, we could throw 15mil at Bolton for Cahill, but who is he? A relatively young centre-back with less experience than ANY of the four main centre -backs at the club, who also doesn't know Arsenal or its players and would need time to settle anyway. He's not worth it, so why pay it? Enrique was alright, i thought, but nowt special... Walcott was bloody poor though. Do you really want Enrique at the club? Last year everyone was screaming that England's next best left-back should be in Arsenal's starting lineup - he's injured this week, so we right him off for the season and sign Newcastle's left-back, do we? What do we do when he comes back?

Didn't Arsene say the reason we sold Clichy was because Gibbs was at an age where he needed to play regularly? Nothing said about his quality or the fact he has never played 5 game in a row he just gets his place at one of the biggest clubs in England because of Wengers loyalty to him. Says it all really.

What an absolute disaster of a summer, it literally could not have been any worse. By all means rip apart a squad that have won f*'K all but give yourself more than 8 days to rebuild it.

We weren't the better team against brum we were tentative and rabbits in headlights, our experienced players in that final were appalling. We weren't that close against barce we had no shots on target all game, they were toying with us. And i would be slightly worried re all that if i was a manc, but it would be at the back of my mind after all the success over the last 15 years. Which is, btw, what all this is about.

What are you talking about? How have our last 6 years been rosy? We've been one, maybe 2 personnel changes away from actually winning something. We've gone from being a big club to not being able to call ourselves a big club. And that argument is rubbish, Utd are hardly going to go out of business are they?

I will always be bitter about those 2 near post goals. And the idiots constantly sticking up for him

shewore.I feel your pain mate,I really do.Oh PS: Apparently Howard Webb is the man in the middle at Old Toilet on Sunday so that puts paid to any hopes I had of knicking a draw then I suppose.Bring on Swansea I say!!!!

Last 15 because that's the time period that you brought up in your earlier post. Happy to talk about the last 6 years - and all of the success within them. Its been frustrating at times, but again, ask the fans of Leeds United what frustration is. Or, I don't know, Barnet. Basically any of the hundred clubs below Arsenal (I'll not list them all :)).

Damiano, you seriously think United are in trouble financially, they are the biggest sporting brand in the world, they have the largest fanbase in the world, they are the highest valued football club in the world, has the highest turnover.. Yes they are ridding with Glazer debt, but if Glazer could not meet interest paymentst, and put the club up for sale, buyes would que up to buy, get real.. United have spend 50m on quality young players, please do not compare the rosy economic state of Arsenal to Uniteds, it doesnt make sense. Wenger should admin defeat in his strategy and at least he ows you, the fans, an explanation why he wont or cant buy quality players. Being an United fan, I have enjoyed watching Arsenal play the attacking brand of football you always play, however as fan, I would want my club to move forward, plan for the season, but most of all, I want trophies, and Arsene has not delivered lately..

Shewore, whether we're second echelon or not is up for debate, and we'll know better at the end of the season (because we're all guessing at the moment), but for srgument's sake, if we are behind United, City and Chelsea, isn't that understandable given the (literally) billions of pounds they've used to try and kill football as a sport? And second, won't this all change now the FFP rules have begun (as I understand it, over the next three years clubs are allowed a net loss of only 30-something milllion pounds as a settling-in period)?

Nothing to stop that queue of sugar daddies putting in an offer at any time. That's what the Glazers are in it for. Make them the right offer and they'd sell. But they do carry a lot of debt. They're also a massive cash generating machine but inhibited to a fair degree by the debt that they carry. Not enough to stop it still being a very successful business but one that is constrained to a degree. If they were the only side whose financial power we were to be concerned about then I doubt that we'd have found it as difficult to pick up trophies over the last few years. The difficulty can be traced back to the Webster ruling and the change in player contract laws that were initially introduced in 2001 to comply with EU laws but reinforced following the Webster ruling. Effectively this means that any contract can last no more than 3 years under 28 or 2 years over 28. It's this as much as anything that has opened the door for Abramovich in 2003 and Mansour in 2008 to operate the way they do. Factor in other changes that have taken place in the football environment that Arsenal has had to operate in (25 man rule, home grown ec.,) and its not that hard to see that the conditions under which our earlier successes were gained under Wenger just weren't there in the second half. But the environment is continuing to change and we know that whatever Abramovich and Mansour are doing now it cannot be sustainable. The game didn't end last season and it won't end once this season is over. The club has existed through lots of changes in its 125 year history. It's the only club to have won a trophy in each of the last 9 successive decades and the tenth one has only just started. Relax. These are the good times.

I like that, Amos - "The club has existed through lots of changes in its 125 year history. It's the only club to have won a trophy in each of the last 9 successive decades", I'm gonna use that!

Sure, or if one kick in the CCfinal had gone differently. That's the margin we're talking about - one kick between "we've no spine, belief and leadership' and 'woohoo, we won a cup'. Talking of belief, let's boo teenagers at home, that'll help!

Who is booing the teenagers? Have you been to matches lately?

The booing has had such a psychological impact we have lost about 12 games at home in 5 years........Any excuse to deflect the blame away from the players, management or club.

Explain our great home record then if the negativity around the stadium is so bad? Please im all ears.

a) No that doesn't at all, our away support it just as, if not more, poisonous and negative than our home support. b) you don't really think that's why do you? Ignoring the main reasons such as us lacking creativity and killer instincts in the final third at home where teams see a draw as a results compared to them opening up at home?

Yes of course it does because, as i touched on above, teams set out differently at home because, as you say, there is more expected of them, can you not see that away games suit us more due to this? Home is considered an advantage most of the time but the lack of creative options we have at the moment i would prefer and away game any day of the week as teams come at you more, nothing more frustrating than teams doing nothing and just waiting for us to make a cock up or settline for a 0-0, which happened a few times last season at home.

Shewore, I would agree that playing away suits us better because the opposition are more likely to open up a bit, which they definitely don't do when they come to us, absolutely. But you've alluded to half the problem there; when a team 'parks the bus' at the Emirates it's very hard to break them down. Harder if your patient passing game is regularly groaned at by the home fans, heaping pressure on the team rather than supporting them. This has seen the team push forward more, with all five midfielders and the striker often all in the final third, which in turn means that any move that doesn't end in a goal leads to the opposition booting the ball sixty yards and suddenly our defense is under pressure. I'm not saying that fans being stroppy is the ONLY reason for our problems, but it is a reason. In the previous seasons we finished 3rd/4th, 5th/4th and 2nd/2nd. Don't know what you want to take from that. I listed last season's results in response to the assertion that we have a great home record (which sadly isn't as true today as it was in the first few years at the Emirates) rather than to try to definitively prove anything. Not sure what 'real issues' you're referring to, ice; AFC is a massive football club, with plenty of quality players, a great stadium, the greatest manager in its history currently in charge, solid financially - who have started this season slowly and notwon a cup for six years. Would you rather be in Birmingham's shoes - win the CC but have no cash, manager walk out, drop a division? is that success, because they've won a cup? I don't know, I prefer the Arsenal version of success; competing with three of the richest clubs in the financially-doped world and sticking close to them while the FFP rules kick-in.