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Wenger Suspended For 2 Further Games By UEFA

Arsne Wenger has been handed a further two match ban by UEFA following an apparent infringement of the law as the Frenchman served a one match ban following last season`s defeat against Barcelona in the knock out stages of the CL.

Wenger, Pat Rice and Boro Primorac were clearly seen to be communicating with each other through the use of mobile phones and club physios, and UEFA say this was breaking the conditions of the suspnesion he was serving.

Arsenal however claim they were given the all clear for Rice to communicate with Boro Primorac during the game and plan to appeal the suspension.

Should the suspension be upheld, Wenger will miss the 2nd leg of the important qualifier against Udinese this Wednesday and then the following European match, which could be the 1st group stage game of this season`s Champions League, or next season`s Europa League if Wenger doesn`t get his finger out and sign some players.




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The Journalist

Writer: Rocky7 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday August 22 2011

Time: 11:18AM

Your Comments

Sad times indeed....
Dannism
This decision is so so ridiculous. Where do these guys get to do things like this? I am sure we have seen many suspended Managers sending word to the bench, one way or another. If you think about it, it is all down to the pressure occasioned by the lack of team depth that necessitated the need to send word down to Rice. Surely, Pat Rice should have been trusted to take the right decisions after so many years under the manager! It is getting soooo frustrating now.
Naijagunner
No great loss really, might do the team some good not to look to the touchline and witness the plotless shell of a man sitting head in hands rocking gently like a frigging lunatic.
nikolaijns
Naija - behave. Nikolaijns - nonsense.
damiano_tommassi
Naija is spot on damiano why should he behave? It's not like we'll have a plethora of game changers on the bench, it's not like the rigid sub times can't be predicted by anyone here, it's not like orders and tactics are made from the touchline, so pray tell what exactly is the benefit of having Wenger on the bench? cos for the life of me I can't see it making a blind bit of difference, a few less water bottles unmolested is the only dfference.
nikolaijns
Oh, I see; this isn't about sensible discussion, it's about ranting. Sorry, you guys carry on.
damiano_tommassi
It's also known that he often says next to nothing in the dressing room at HT, winning or losing so really anyone else like Primo going in is going to give more advice and belief that these kids so obviously need. Who knows maybe having to watch a couple more games from the perspective of the rest of us will finally lift any remaining shrouded veils should they still exist.
nikolaijns
Wheres the sensible considered debate from you then? A one word derogatory put down then a back down about not wanting to play anymore? Wow you've really changed my whole world viewpoint there.
nikolaijns
The manager is well respected around the world, and amongst his players is seen as something of a father figure. When you were a teenager, wouldn't you get a psycholgical lift from having your dad on the touchline? Or be motivated to try to impress him? I absolutely agree that these players need more belief, they've been getting told by the media and fans of most football clubs - including their own 'fans' - that they aren't good enough for the last five years. That's got to knock their confidence. lastly, do you imagine for a monet that AW doesn't watch every game in the most minute detail? I'm under the impression he watches football from around the world, non-stop, and that it's common practice for teams to review their own games on DVD following a match. the guy does his job full-time, and has done for decades. He really does know better than us part-timers and Championship Manager lovers.
damiano_tommassi
That respect that he so worthily built was nothing less than fully merited. The fact that this respect is eroding on a minute by minute basis is also fully justified. If the board is hanging you out to dry then have the balls and f*** any imagined loyalty and come out and give everyone the truth. As we have just spent 12 mill on Oxlade Chamberlain I find this supposition highly unlikely. If my old man was watching from the touchline with the behaviour Wenger has been exhibiting then yes I would prefer he'd rather stay the hell at home as it would cut to the core of my very being as much as any supporter chant. Lastly I have never played championship manager in my life but given the fact everyone of us knew fabregas would leave this summer to allow that to happen without signing any form of replacement is gross negligence and is an act so utterly inexcusable that even the most head in sand ostrich lalalala fingers in ears everything is rosy dipstick cannot have any defence for.
nikolaijns
So why should the respect for AW erod enow; what's the crime that un-does his status as the club's most successful manager (ever)? Agree, if the board aren't giving him moneyto spend then he should be honest about it - but I too doubt that's the case. I haven't seen him do too much on the touchline to be embarrassed about... and I'm damn sure that if he sat there quietly everyone would be on his back for 'not showing enough passion'. Isn't Ramsey the natural replacement for Cesc?
damiano_tommassi
Basically as far as I'm concerned this off season was Wengers' last chance. He has rectified nothing, not one single solitary sodding thing. We have a vastly weakened squad and have allowed the season to begin in what can only be described as pretty much every sane supporters worst nightmare. Sold our 1st choice left back with the expectation a brittle boned crockchild will have a successful full season with no serious back up or competition, he hasn't lasted 3 games, who saw that coming? likewise despite offloading the clown Eboue we have no real back up for Sagna. One fit CB going into what is arguably the most important game since the final of the same competition. Half hearted unrealistic vaguely insulting bids, more children promoted no experience incoming aside from Gervinho whose experience extended to repetitive simulation and a pathetic girly slap to earn him a red on his debut. It's a shambles an absolute f****** shambles everywhere you look both on and off the pitch, a new owner who has done nothing, no outlay no plan, no statements of intent. I've had silent sharts that have given me more. It is a real clusterf*** and the worst thing of the entire sorry debacle is that it is wholly 100% self inflicted.
nikolaijns
Have you been watching any games? Have you watched how out of his depth Ramsey is? He is a good season or two away from being ready for full 1st team action on a regular basis and at this moment in time is a million miles away from being close to a suitable replacement, nope that guy has just gone to Chelski as we were obviously just never serious enough, a scenario it appears more and more players are beginning to realise. In what should have been the most active window for years given the way in which we limped to the line and the fact that two of our three world class players have left or want out we are actually going to make a profit. That says it all right there, board wenger kroenke as far as I'm concerned they are all culpable and guilty of neglection of duty, combine this with a rise in ticket prices and it's a disgrace of which the fans are fully entitled of making their feeling known without having any form of loyalty called into question.
nikolaijns
Damn, so negative! It's really not that bad, is it, Niko?!
damiano_tommassi
Yeah, got to disagree with everything you've said there. Ramsey isn't a long way off Cesc's ability for me, and I think Nasri is a better CM than Cesc, so really hope he stays. RE buying players, we aren't offering the sort of wages that other clubs are - for which I'm grateful. It's easy to cave in ans start paying everyone 250k/week - but where does that get you? Ask Leeds United. Plus the FFP rules have started... and the rise in ticket prices follows a few years of static prices doesn't it? No-one wants to pay more to watch a game, but what do you want them to do, leave it at 1965 prices?
damiano_tommassi
I only wish it wasn't mate. I have defended Arsene to the hilt season after season but I just cannot do it any more. I will support this club til my bitter end but I refuse do do it with any form of blinkers or rose tints. I will always call it how I see it. We have what 9 days to instigate some form of plan to turn this fearful form around yet still it appears hands are being sat on. It is actually heartbreaking being prescient to what is effectively a slow motion car crash involving something you've invested so much time and passion in.
nikolaijns
Whoever takes over from Wenger would do himself a favor to listen and act to the whim of every fan out there and please them all individually because if not his job must be untenable. Ridiculous. Does it occur to you that nobody wants to come to england and be taxed 50%? Does it cross your mind that maybe just maybe the name 'Arsenal' and 'Real Madrid' do not carry the same weight in the football world? Perhaps hearing 500million pounds being spent at a club strikes you as the 'norm'? Support your team whether top 4 or relegation fodder! Laugh at your rivals and always, always look forward to the next match with anticipation of a big win! C'mon ARSENAL!!!!!
GunnaBlazing
Niko is obviously very emotionally tied to the failures, but I don't see anything factually incorrect with his assessment. New majority ownership with no statement of intent or plan for the club? check. Players gone with no replacements? check. Best CM in the world predictably gone with no replacement? check. Weakened squad ravaged by injury? check. Wenger trotting out LANS? check. Seems pretty accurate to me. I'll even go a step further and point out we've missed out on Enrique and Mata that we know of and have apparently made no serious effort at a CB or any senior players for that matter.
smithdj74
Hi Niko, feel your pain, the summer transfer windows of the last two seasons haven't exactly given us hope that some glaring weaknesses in the team will be corrected. Yes it will be difficult to convince teams to sell some of their best players at such short notice when there is such less time to replace them. Cesc and Nasri leaving essentially has meant that we will need to change our style of play this season to do well and initially that transition will be difficult. Having said all of this, we will be premature in our judgement before two milestones are witnessed - the first milestone is day after against Udinese and the second is the end of the transfer window.
Deltaforce
Smith, there's a differnece between what you or I may know and what exists. Just because we don't know what's happening doesn't mean that nothing's happening. Seeing as you use the word 'factually' (great reminder of the Fat Spanish Waiter, that!), the only fact I can see in your post is that Lansbury played...
damiano_tommassi
Make no mistake, this is my club and regardless of my preseason malaise I am well and truly invested in the season. That doesn't change the fact there are some serious problems. DT - I don't believe Nasri is a better CM, but he could be more effective if our plan is to play faster with less outside the box buildup. If he were convinced to stay. but Ramsey not far off of Cesc??? You're having a laugh. He isn't even close to where Cesc was at that age let alone ready to be the man to step in for him now.
smithdj74
Nasri better than cesc? put down the pipe! Ramsey is nowhere even close to wilshere let alone fabregas. He will be a great player no doubt but not this season, this season which was so important to reinstall deteriorating faith in an increasingly isolated manager. Re wages we are hardly shrinking violets in that dept are we? So three clubs in the league have a higher wage bill, does that justify the lackadaisical fannying about in buying a playmaking CM? of course it doesn't. Jesus I'd even have some shred of faith if Nasri or Arshavin had been deplyed there as both have far more vision for the creative role than they ever will out on the wing, your arguments belie the fact you are quite young as does the ticket price defence, it was inopportune to say the least and a real tactless kick in the stones to put it bluntly, not something that couldn't have waited til the following season after some sensible outlay had been made to improve in key areas and assure the support that steps in the right direction were being made to ensure some value for their expenditure, oh wait that's far too sensible isn't it? Anyhow my piece has been said and I agree with not one thing you have put forward either, let's reconvene this after another 10 games and see where we stand eh?
nikolaijns
LANS has nothing to do with Lansbury. It is "Like A New Signing". You may have heard that phrase in recent years.
smithdj74
RE: Ticket Prices. If I'm not mistaken the ticket price increase is ok because it remained flat for several years probably falls flat I think. If I'm not mistaken the prices were increased pretty dramatically and then held at that level for some time. You'd have to ask LD on that though.
smithdj74
Gunnablazing - The problem is that other English clubs have managed to make signings despite having their players on the same tax rates. we're not asking that Wenger spends 80M on Ronaldo or 50M on Torres. We're asking that he signs some players to replace the player who have left. The Jose Enrique one is one that sticks out more than any. We need a left back, there was an excellent one, cheap, and we could offer him European football. We missed a trick, again. We need players desperately. Wenger has forgotten more about football that I ever knew, but the entire footballing world knows that if we want to progress, we need players, and we need them now.
Rocky7
Ahhh, got you Smith. AW did say that recently, yeah; made me giggle! In that case, there's still only one fact in the post...!
damiano_tommassi
I'm emotionally tied to the club full stop smithdj74. My words are not the knee jerk reaction to two results. I am not a hormonal teenager seeking to outpour some waaah. I do not swallow tabloid hysteria, I'm not a fully paid up member of Le Grunt or the online Groaner. I'm here after we get knocked out of comps year after year and I hopefully deal with it in the main with humour and a pull me up for those of us here, but this is not a new broom sweeping clean this is the tail end of last season continuing and I can't for the life of me see where we are going to pull it round. Call me negative if it makes you feel better I have no problem with that, I am a cynic granted I view cynicism as just a worldly resignation. In my eyes I'm a brutal realist no more no less.
nikolaijns
I get you Niko. I'm not saying you're wrong Niko. I agreed with your sentiments, I was simply pointing out that your obvious emotion attachment to the ideas does not necessarily make your ideas incorrect.
smithdj74
No i know bruv, the majority of my post was still directed at damiano.
nikolaijns
It is tricky to see when it will turn around; I can't believe how many injuries we've had to suffer, and for so long. It has to end soon, doesn't it??
damiano_tommassi
Online Groaner! Ha priceless!
Deltaforce
I know my club is in trouble when fans like Niko and Proffesor Calculous are feeling the strain. These guys have been members here for years, and this is not some tantrum or anything, as Niko said, he's backed Wenger as long as I've known him (what 5 years now?) and I was the same. People are starting to doubt Wenger now because they have legitimate reason to do so. Hopefully the old man can pull a rabbit out of the hat, but I'm begining to think not.
Rocky7
Wow! gooner cyber gloom spreading like a virus,i know things are far from perfect,and a a couple of players are required,but for all that 120 million liverpool spunked out on new players were they that much better than us?yea they won,but even the golden boys of days gone by got beat by them too.cheslea won but they looked totally unconvincing against w.b.a.The sun number 1 for spreding doom and gloom,i know for a fact that they daily read "le gron"to feel fans sentiments,witch is biggest anti Arsene site around because he dosen`t do what they think should be done. If supporters took their blinkers off for a moment and see what he has done,ie aknolaged what is not good enough and is trying to get rid of the deadwood like they were askinfor,Eboue,Denilson,bendtnar, Almunia
arsenor
I remember the season we signed Arshavin. We were crying out for a creative player. I got the sense that Wenger only made that signing when pushed and even then we only did it on the last minute of the transfer window! We need three miracles in 8 days: beating Udinese; beating United; and signing some feckin players!
Gooner_Vin
Mate we'll both still be here cheering us when the local derby is us & Millwall/West Ham. I am just utterly baffled given the fact we knew this would be the trickiest start to the season for some years yet we have been as painfully ponderous and ditheringly ineffectual as ever, when we've had since february to make plans for this window, to be bold, incisive, a real chance to show the fans that OK, we've gone down a path that has helped us through a lean period and it has helped us remain in touch with the elite but now was the timeframe where if we had any remaining pretensions as a big club challenging on all fronts we would go in and get the established targets, get them early, rebuild the squad morale, show them places need to be fought for, keep them believing Arsenal are a force in world football and shut up the insidious whisperings of their fetid agents, get the fans back onside early before any dissent can fester into the tinderbox of mutiny we now witness. It is no exaggeration to say this is pretty much worst case scenario time. Despite all the efforts to turn Arsenal into a worldwide superclub we still have this appalling small club mentality when it comes to player dealings one that inevitably makes the smaller clubs we attempt to deal with resentful at our constant late ebay style sniping to the point where it appears even the french clubs are now resentful at dealing with us. Yet here we are still with the lastminute.com in an environment where everyone will be overpricing as they are all too aware of the desperation. Was it worth it all oh Lord of Economics?
nikolaijns
No one here is failing to acknowledge all that Wenger has done for this club and this team. I think the people that are the most upset right now are some of us who have absolutely supported and believed in what he was doing. Unfortunately it is starting to look like either the club is genuinely misleading us and there really is no money still or he is tarnishing his own reputation for the sake of not caving on his belief of builiding a winning squad on the cheap. I was pleased at the end of last season to hear he recognized we had deadwood who had been given enough chances. He has sent some on their way which is good as Eboue and Denilson are not good enough... BUT he hasn't replaced them. Would we have been better or worse against Liverpool with Eboue and Denilson on the field? Bendtner is free to go but he has been replaced by Chamakh who, imo, is not as good as Bendtner. That poor kid has never been allowed to play as anything but right winger and that's pathetic. We're short a quality Left Back, We need a CB that can push Kos and Verm for their positions, as a rotation may actually keep us from breaking down in January. Basically we've given up some mediocre squad players, the best center mid in the world, we're in the process of losing our 2nd best attacking midfielder and the boss has known all summer long we needed to strengthen... AND DONE NOTHING that remotely resembles strengthening. Either tell us we have no money and 4th place and a decent cup run is all we can hope for or swallow your pride and buy suitable quality to challenge. That doesn't require untold barrels of black gold. Simply an effort to upgrade our players year over year and coach them to be more effective.
smithdj74
Transfer negotiations are not 100% Arsene Wenger's area. His responsibility is to identify targets for the club which keep in mind its budget for both transfer fee and wages. The other half is handled by Ivan Gazidis supported by Richard Law (head of contracts) and David Miles (Club Secretary). If we dont have an adequate number of transfer targets for our weak positions no doubt Wenger will be to blame but if we are blown out of the water on transfer fee and wages by the Chelsea or City on a player after commencing negotiations, AW cant be to blame. It would partially be the fault of the above mentioned management team and above all our club structure which does not have a crazy benefactor for who money means nothing because they made it easily. The club hierarachy needs to share the blame for our current situation but its the public figure of the manager who gets all the brickbats.
Deltaforce
So who outbid us for our attempts at buying a quality left back? (nevermind for the moment the creative players or the CB that Wenger himself identified as necessities.)
smithdj74
Firstly, I dont need to be educated on the needs of the team, I'm in the same camp. Being outbid is only one scenario. The other scenarios involve going after players who have been identified and still coming up empty handed. Why we failing to sign what we need till now is a mystery to me as well, what I do make a distinction about is that this is an overall failure of the manager AND the club management.
Deltaforce
DF, It is almost like a conspiracy against Wenger; even his old mates and kin, back in France, are turning their backs on him, one after the other. The lesson: Move early in the window instead of waiting for rush hour!
Naijagunner
And just WHO do YOU think can replace Arsene Wenger? (And DON'T say Jose "Poke-Eye" Mourinho!
julieloveshenry4ever
not having much luck is he?
merlin
Just saw ManU put 3 past the spuds. They started with de Gea, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Cleverley, Welbeck... Cleverley crossed beautifully for Welbeck to score and Welbeck created the 2nd. Giggs, Park and Hernandes came through.. A mixture of good old and young players. Arsene needs to learn. I dont see us even getting even a point on Sunday. I'd take 2-0 and I am being optimistic
Gael-Force
Just saw United steamroll Spurs. Tough game coming up for our lads on Sunday, without Song or Frimpong. The team just needs to lower its expectations in that game and just be compact and hope to pull off a draw. Of course, a lot could change depending on how Wednesday goes and if we get in any inspiring player before the weekend.
Naijagunner
Hahaha, Gael-Force. Different strokes.......
Naijagunner
NG, United looked SOLID. We look frail. After 6 years, i would have expected our kids to have grown up and playing the telepathic football Wenger dreamed of. The problem is the good ones have left and the rest are just potential on high salaries and that's it. Where is that kid Wellington? My last gripe is about Almunia and Cygan. Ever since they started with us, i said they were not super-quality (insert your own joke here). Wenger persevered for a few years saying they would be full internationals soon. They were never capped. Where are they today? Talk about rubbish.
Gael-Force
Sorry for ranting. The frustration at what i see coming is getting the better of me. Getting back on topic, why can't Arsene just say that Primorac's calls and text messages had nothing to do with him? Surely you can't prove that unles you hack Boro's phone. Mourinho wouldn't fall for this one and he's done far worse. It seems we just can't play the game.
Gael-Force
If we're contesting the ban does that mean It will not come into affect for Wednesday's match?
Dberg
OH dear Nikoc Prof and now it seems(in my opinion) Rocky have now joined the doom and gloom gang. FFS 2 repeat 2 games into the EPL and we are writtn off. Twit comments like derby games against WHU and Millwall(note Millwall are my second team so no disrespect). What a lod of wan k. Your like a bunch of girls and that is being disrespectfu lto girls because Julie has more heart and balls than you lot put togeather. damiano you are not wrong mate keep your ideals. I spent 13 years in the mob and thank god you girls were not on my side. This of course is my opinion just like your sh ite upsets me. And as we know we all have opinions and are allowed to make them. Knitting classes begin next week girls, then youwont have to watch football. 2 games into the EPL and it sack time again, who needs supporters like you lot, and that includes you too Wyn.
alwaysgunner
Dear oh dear, easier for you to pidgeonhole people to avoid any uncomfortable home truths is it alwaysgunner? the West Ham Millwall derby comment was just making light so no need to get your frillies in a twist. You have no argument for any of the points I've made though, not one single counter argument, just tired macho Oi Oi Oim a geeezaah abuse. But yeah rounding on fellow gooners with the guff you just have is far more acceptable than questioning the increasingly bizarre actions of our manager isn't it?
nikolaijns
2 games .. yeah, 2 games this season, but that Liverpool loss makes it two wins in our last 14 Premier League games (all of a sudden Niko's throw away jokes are not so jokey are they?), and we've become considerably weaker since this run started too. What are your opinions that we'll add to our "W" column this weekend? Let's see how positive you are now.
Rocky7
I echo that Rocky. It just ain't 2 games. We are just continuing from where we left off. I am not saying we won't win the league. I am just saying that on this form and the current state of the squad, i don't see how it is going to happen unless something happens.. We not only need fresh additions, we need our young players to grow up and for one or 2 of them to emerge and have a breakthrough season. For example Song's stupidity and refusal to learn has hurt his team. I cant imagine a United player (unless its Rooney whom the FA can't touch) doing that but it keeps happening to us.
Gael-Force
statistics are wonderful
GunnaBlazing
You spent 13 years in the Mob alwaysgunner? You in witness protection now? Good counter argument though, really valid points re, errmm, errr....Niko being like girls?
shewore
If the team we put out against Liverpool was our best eleven in its best form, then I would be in agreement with all those saying 'this is shocking, we'll get beat every week, it's a disgrace'. The fact is we were ten men down. 10 men. And even then we were unlucky to lose! I don't care how good United looked with a few of their youth players against a ropey Spuds side, you take 10 first team players out of their squad and they'd struggle too. And if you packed the united side with youth players and had the Old Trafford crowd boo them for three years, they wouldn't look as confident, coherent and happy as they do. they'd look like... well, like the young Arsenal players look right now.
damiano_tommassi
You're being calm, rational and considered damiano. Not good qualities on a football forum I'm afraid..... but I do like it. Alwaysgunner is being emotional, passionate, unconsidered and reactive which are usually good qualities for a football forum but only fully appreciated if going with the herd....I still like it though :)
Amos.
Damiano who were those ten men out of the starting XI on Sat? Gibbs.... Wilshere...Song....?
shewore
Fair play Amos! A mate of mine goes nuts whenever the slightest thing goes against the club; I have to remind her that it's existed for 215 years and one bad week isn't the end of the world. On-topic though, and a bit more forum-like-rant-esque, when are things going to start going our way? It seems that for a number of years, referee decisions, disciplinary actions and injuries have been solidly agianst us. This decision, RvP's red card, players getting banned retrospectively (like Song for a step/stamp, take your pick) on barton but nothing for breaking Arsenal players' legs...Things do tend to 'even themselves out', but they definitely haven't around Arsenal for a long time now. We're owed SOOOO much luck - anyone who believes in karma must have a good feeling about the Arsenal!
damiano_tommassi
plus Djourou, Squillaci, Koscielny, Traore, Diaby, Rosicky, Gervinho would be my guess?
Amos.
Shewore - players out (by the end of the game): Song - Koscielny - Gervinho - Gibbs - Wilshere - Djourou - Diaby - Frimpong - Rosicky (surely, he's always injured!) - and some others that I can't name off the top of my head. So, two centre-backs, a full-back, two holding midfielders, three attacking midfielders and our new winger. Cue a debate on how useful those players are, but it's easy enough to argue that 5 are top-class and 8/9 of them would have been used if available (rather than teenagers).
damiano_tommassi
Starting XI, Amos, starting XI. Squillaci has no place anywhere near this club but I do rate him higher than the geriatic Sylvestre who was absolutely appalling. Traore is apparently being farmed out and Wenger's been far far too loyal to Diaby. How great is though that when he comes back, he'll slot seamlessly in, let's get rid of Denilson, cos Diaby will play more.... ah wait, he's injured. It's a disgrace that we've got to this part of the summer and are in this shape, we're in a much worse position than the embarrassing demise of last season. Name me another business where the product can go down so dramatically yet the price still go up?
shewore
Shewore, you can't base ticket prices directly on matchday performance. Perhaps collect your 50 on the way out of the stadium when the team loses? pay an extra 100 on your way out when it wins? A business has to forecast, budget, plan, survive. Imagine if we had spent 200m on players, all on 100k/week; how high would ticket prices need to be then??
damiano_tommassi
Keep the faith guyz.IN ARSENE YOU TRUST.
Dannism
Glad to see that some of the old timers here are staring to see the light. As for those still believing that something will happen now as opposed to the last 6 years I have not seen a single argument put forward as to why this has not been a disastrous summer and looks like being a sign of things to come in the winter. No one that has called for Wenger's head is any less of a supporter or less loyal, just that we cant see any hope of the manager changing his mind or approach. And if there is not a drastic change in the next week we are looking at a long and hard football winter. Looking at the squad this year and comparing that with last year on we are so much weaker and how on earth was that allowed to happen? By NOT replacing Cesc and Nasri as early as June and not getting players in to fill the holes left by Clicy, Denilson and Bendtner if he leaves.
Armory
I agree you can't just base them on matchday performance but the question remains valid. Unfortunately prices have gone up for a variety of reasons, some may just say greed and others will say it's because of the ***** poor job that's gone in with long term locked in commercial deals that pale in absolute insiginifcant to other teams'. At the end of the day though supporters will vote with their feet, especially when AFC is making profit after profit yet performances are steadily getting worse and real issues that have been around for a few seasons now, are not sorted. We have a terrible blend of youth and experience, we have promising youth players stuck in a team with experienced losers, what real value is there in that? They know what's going to happen season after season unless the slide is arrested yet nothing really seems to happen, I was optimistic at the start of the summer thinking that maybe Wenger will get it now, you have cash burning a hole in your pocket so don't just gamble on youth with no real top level experience, but he hasn't, if anything, it's got worse, it's unbelievable really and if it's like this in 7 days time then someone's head should roll - either that or we're told the truth behind the reasons as to why the squad was not genuinely strengthened and why we're paying more than any club in the world. And this "value" thing doesn't cut it i'm afraid, it's far too subjective and is a cop out, Enrique had Walcott in his pocket on Sat, cost - 6m. Maybe we valued him at 5.5m? Happened far too many times over the past 5/6 years and we're really seeing the fruits of Wenger's labour of love and blind loyalty to youngsters who do not show the same committment back.
shewore
Maybe we didn't value Enrique at all? Everyone can have a different opinion about which players we should let go and which we bring in but whether either action strengthens or weakens the team will only become clear by the end of the season. Maybe the season will be a total disaster maybe not. If it's a disaster then there's always another season in which to get it right. The world won't come to an end. Just enjoy the ride.
Amos.
UEFA is biased. Old Red Nose does it all the time and gets away with it.
bluemillionaire
But then Wenger's presence on the touchline these days just puts pressure on your fans and players alike. He looks so frustrated that I really pity him.
bluemillionaire
Everyone can have a different opinion and mine is that our same failings that have occurred over the last 5 seasons are being repeated this, and then some. Maybe we didn't rate Enrique it was a recent example, maybe we didn't rate Ronaldo, maybe we didn't rate YaYa Toure, maybe we didn't rate Van Der Saar...etc
shewore
Football's all about opinions, and fortunately (for a discussion forum) mine are very different to yours. For me, prices have gone up because of inflation and having frozen them previously. I understand Arsenal tickets are more expensive than most (all?) others in the premier league though, and that does need justifying - but you could argue that attendance sets ticket prices; you don't like them, you don't go. But the logic still follows; you charge 1/10th of the ticket price, your club's income falls by 80-odd percent, you then can't afford to repay loans, buy players or pay wages. It has been said that the commercial deals in place are a little poor, but I don't know enough about them to comment. AFC making profit is a good thing; I think there's a tendency in the footballing community that if a club is making money and not p1ss1ng it away on players every six months then 'the board are all money grabbing scumbags'. It is the job of the players and staff at a club to make it as successful as possible, and I for one like how Arsenal's house is in order, and know that we're not going broke anytime soon. Can Man*****y, Chelski, or Yank United say the same? Particularly now the fair play rules are kicking-in? The first sign of its effect is that City have not even registered Adebayor, Bridge and or Bellamy (please correct if I'm wrong) because only a certain number of players that haven't been at the club since youth are allowed. The performance of our very weakened side against Liverpool - who are on the crest of a wave - impressed me, so I don't agree that performances are getting worse. Nor doI agree that we have a terrible blend (of anything) - this is a club that finished right near the top of the premier league last year, and were a few bits of bad luck away from going all the way; finalists in the league cup; beat Barca in the champs. league and had a damn good chance of winning the tie (but for a shocking referee decision and an even more shocking Cesc back-pass). We lose a CM and LB, sign a couple of wingers and suddenly we're nowhere? No, i don't buy it. it will be disappointing if, in 7 days' time, we haven't signed new players because the numbers are a tad low for me (no more than that); but even then, not the end of the world, and who knows just how hard the club has tried to sign players, or why they haven't arrived? Maybe the negativity of the fans and media are putting off potential signings - who wants to be booed in their first home league game of the season? I respect Wenger sticking to value. Yeah, we could throw 15mil at Bolton for Cahill, but who is he? A relatively young centre-back with less experience than ANY of the four main centre -backs at the club, who also doesn't know Arsenal or its players and would need time to settle anyway. He's not worth it, so why pay it? Enrique was alright, i thought, but nowt special... Walcott was bloody poor though. Do you really want Enrique at the club? Last year everyone was screaming that England's next best left-back should be in Arsenal's starting lineup - he's injured this week, so we right him off for the season and sign Newcastle's left-back, do we? What do we do when he comes back?
damiano_tommassi
I feel you're slight delusioned to think that we were so so close over the last few years, it's the same every year, so why would it change this time? Just a bit of luck isn't going to make the difference is it? We've flattered to deceive in turning up against the likes of Chelsea last season but ruining everything with a total lack of motivation against smaller teams. If you're happy to think that the club are doing all they can and what will be will be, then fine, but I'm going to find my voice this time and express my discontent. To suggest that players won't wanna sign for Arsenal cos they may get booed in their first game is naive at best and ridiculous at worst. The Walcott you're talking about there is the same one that's been at the club for about 5 years now and all he's done to me is bulk up a bit. And Cahill relatively young? Isn't he 25? The season ticket thing will continue to be done to death but they should rise on the basis that the quality will remain the same at least, if Wenger doesn't bolster the squad with proven signings then it won't, it's as simple as that. We go to Utd on Sunday with a fair chance that a few of our youngsters will be up against theirs, I don't fancy our chances, do you? Why is AFC making a profit, to you in your capacity as a supporter, a good thing?
shewore
Didn't Arsene say the reason we sold Clichy was because Gibbs was at an age where he needed to play regularly? Nothing said about his quality or the fact he has never played 5 game in a row he just gets his place at one of the biggest clubs in England because of Wengers loyalty to him. Says it all really.
iceman10
Looks like the Nasri saga is coming to an end with your official site reporting terms have been agreed.
TheFamousNo7
What an absolute disaster of a summer, it literally could not have been any worse. By all means rip apart a squad that have won f*'K all but give yourself more than 8 days to rebuild it.
iceman10
I don't think it's delusional to suggest we were close; I believe it to be fact, provable by the points difference, especially at the point where seasons have been defined. be fair; we lost to Barca in shocking circumstances - you could play that tie 100 times and RVP wouldn't be sent off again under those conditions. We failed to win the CCfinal due to a defensive ricket/fluke, and otherwise were the better team throughout. Maybe we have a different idea of what 'close' is. I know that before the Liverpool game, Neville and Redknapp were on SkySports and one or both said that 'if TV were fit last year, they may well have won the league' - so I'm not alone (although I do feel uncomfortable agreeing with people on the telly, who are usually idiots that spout cliches.). RE: booing players - if you had a choice between joining two similar clubs, one where everything's rosy and the the other where their own fans groan, boo, whinge, and abuse players (remember Bendtner, Song and Eboue back in the day), where would you go? Walcott is still not the player we want, but last season he had improved massively (didn't he get 10+ goals? Ljungberg used to be a legend for scoring that many in a year) and he is just approaching the peak of his career. Cahill, at 25, is the same age as vermaelen and Koscielny, and two years older than Djourou (who has many more caps/appearances in international tournaments/champs. league/probably domestic cups too than Cahill). I don't fancy us on Sunday, no; but I haven't fancied us against United for 20 years, and at a time when we're missing so many players I don't expect to beat the champions of England. That's realism. I do expect to challenge for the title though, assuming that our players recover rather than being euthanised. lastly, AFC making a profit is a good thing as a fan because it makes it more likely that AFC will survive beyond the next five years (I would be worried for the future as a City/Chelsea/United fan - did you see United's plans to float in the Asian stock market to service NFL debt??). it also means that money is available to invest in the infrastructure of the club, particualrly the youth team and training facilities, and things like a whacking-great new stadium. Long term things - not 'we haven't won anything for five whole years (in a history of 125 years) which is unforgivable'-type-short-termist panic.
damiano_tommassi
We weren't the better team against brum we were tentative and rabbits in headlights, our experienced players in that final were appalling. We weren't that close against barce we had no shots on target all game, they were toying with us. And i would be slightly worried re all that if i was a manc, but it would be at the back of my mind after all the success over the last 15 years. Which is, btw, what all this is about.
shewore
So it's about the last fifteen years, not the next? Because our last 15 were rosy, and we're set-up for a good future. Can those other clubs say the same?
damiano_tommassi
What are you talking about? How have our last 6 years been rosy? We've been one, maybe 2 personnel changes away from actually winning something. We've gone from being a big club to not being able to call ourselves a big club. And that argument is rubbish, Utd are hardly going to go out of business are they?
shewore
Niko for Prime Minister!!!.You just articulate all my thoughts and feelings about the current state of our club so eloquently and accurately.Wenger has made some really atrocious decisions over the last 5 or so years in my opinion and for me, the events of this summer are actually quite imperative if real change is to come at AFC.I mean how on earth was Aluminium our No.1 for so many seasons when Red Nose would have had him on the first flight out of Old Toilet after his first training session??!!. Misplaced faith and blind loyalty coming back to bite Monsieur Wenger in the backside. I dont even want to get started on Bischoff,Denilson,Silvestre, et al.When the whole football fraternity knew they were pants,Wenger persisted with them,Ergo we lose probably our only chance of lifting the European Cup to 2 near post goals when a more decent keeper would have ensured certain parts of North London erupted in delirium on that fateful night in Paris,May 2006!!!!!!
GHGooner
I will always be bitter about those 2 near post goals. And the idiots constantly sticking up for him
shewore
Last FIFTEEN years. If you don't appreciate the joys that AFC have experienced in the last 15 years, I'm not sure we're talking the same language. Name four English clubs that would swap their last 15 years for ours. You can't expect to be the biggest and best football club every year forever. For six years, we haven't been the best club, we've been one of the best. Everyone gets their turn; get over it. How can you say we're not a big club? Because, since we finished fourth in the league, we've lost a couple of midfielders? Is that it?? As for United - they seriously could go out of business. Already tried flogging shares to their players, and now floating in Asia (which financiers expect to be used to pay off NFL debts, not to go to the football club).
damiano_tommassi
shewore.I feel your pain mate,I really do.Oh PS: Apparently Howard Webb is the man in the middle at Old Toilet on Sunday so that puts paid to any hopes I had of knicking a draw then I suppose.Bring on Swansea I say!!!!
GHGooner
Last 15? Why just that? let's not talk about the last 6 tho eh? When we could've had unbridalled joy, the frustration has definitely outweighed the highs in that period, that's for sure.
shewore
Last 15 because that's the time period that you brought up in your earlier post. Happy to talk about the last 6 years - and all of the success within them. Its been frustrating at times, but again, ask the fans of Leeds United what frustration is. Or, I don't know, Barnet. Basically any of the hundred clubs below Arsenal (I'll not list them all :)).
damiano_tommassi
Ah right, referencing to Utd's success, yeah, it's been immense for them, and it must've been even better for them to see us not even be rivals with them any more, we've gone from top echelon to 2nd i'm afraid and a lot of it's due to not taking opportunities available to the club when required to be taken.
shewore
Damiano, you seriously think United are in trouble financially, they are the biggest sporting brand in the world, they have the largest fanbase in the world, they are the highest valued football club in the world, has the highest turnover.. Yes they are ridding with Glazer debt, but if Glazer could not meet interest paymentst, and put the club up for sale, buyes would que up to buy, get real.. United have spend 50m on quality young players, please do not compare the rosy economic state of Arsenal to Uniteds, it doesnt make sense. Wenger should admin defeat in his strategy and at least he ows you, the fans, an explanation why he wont or cant buy quality players. Being an United fan, I have enjoyed watching Arsenal play the attacking brand of football you always play, however as fan, I would want my club to move forward, plan for the season, but most of all, I want trophies, and Arsene has not delivered lately..
nordkap
Hi nordkap. Yep, I seriously think United may be in trouble financially. If 'Glazer could not meet interest paymentst, and put the club up for sale', who exaclty would take them on? Who takes on a failing business with massive debts? And by 'massive', aren't we talking the half a billion mark? You'd know better than be, being a fan - what's the current debt at United, and how quickly is it being paid off?
damiano_tommassi
Shewore, whether we're second echelon or not is up for debate, and we'll know better at the end of the season (because we're all guessing at the moment), but for srgument's sake, if we are behind United, City and Chelsea, isn't that understandable given the (literally) billions of pounds they've used to try and kill football as a sport? And second, won't this all change now the FFP rules have begun (as I understand it, over the next three years clubs are allowed a net loss of only 30-something milllion pounds as a settling-in period)?
damiano_tommassi
LOL Damiano - what did Abramovich do? Mate you're not on a wind up are you? If Utd were up for sale, even with that debt, there'd be a queue of sugar daddies waiting round Stretford to show off to their other pals they own the biggest sporting team brand in the world, that's completely delusional to think that & far too ideological and unfortunately has no place in the real world. I don't think the FPP rules will save us mate, no.
shewore
Nothing to stop that queue of sugar daddies putting in an offer at any time. That's what the Glazers are in it for. Make them the right offer and they'd sell. But they do carry a lot of debt. They're also a massive cash generating machine but inhibited to a fair degree by the debt that they carry. Not enough to stop it still being a very successful business but one that is constrained to a degree. If they were the only side whose financial power we were to be concerned about then I doubt that we'd have found it as difficult to pick up trophies over the last few years. The difficulty can be traced back to the Webster ruling and the change in player contract laws that were initially introduced in 2001 to comply with EU laws but reinforced following the Webster ruling. Effectively this means that any contract can last no more than 3 years under 28 or 2 years over 28. It's this as much as anything that has opened the door for Abramovich in 2003 and Mansour in 2008 to operate the way they do. Factor in other changes that have taken place in the football environment that Arsenal has had to operate in (25 man rule, home grown ec.,) and its not that hard to see that the conditions under which our earlier successes were gained under Wenger just weren't there in the second half. But the environment is continuing to change and we know that whatever Abramovich and Mansour are doing now it cannot be sustainable. The game didn't end last season and it won't end once this season is over. The club has existed through lots of changes in its 125 year history. It's the only club to have won a trophy in each of the last 9 successive decades and the tenth one has only just started. Relax. These are the good times.
Amos.
Abramovich bought a clubthat was, waht, 50-100m down? That sort of money could (potentially) be made through football - not that Chelsea would bother themselves with such trivial things! Taking on debts of hundreds of millions is much less appealing; you're better off buying West Ham (or QPR...) for 20mil with no debt, aren't you. Do you not think FFP will make any difference at all?? "that's completely delusional to think that".
damiano_tommassi
I like that, Amos - "The club has existed through lots of changes in its 125 year history. It's the only club to have won a trophy in each of the last 9 successive decades", I'm gonna use that!
damiano_tommassi
Would've easily been able to say "10" had we had any sort of spine, belief and leadership last season.
shewore
Sure, or if one kick in the CCfinal had gone differently. That's the margin we're talking about - one kick between "we've no spine, belief and leadership' and 'woohoo, we won a cup'. Talking of belief, let's boo teenagers at home, that'll help!
damiano_tommassi
Nothing easy about it at all. But this decade is pretty new and we've still got plenty of time.
Amos.
Who is booing the teenagers? Have you been to matches lately?
shewore
Well, in recent history I recall Song being booed - at home - by the Arsenal fans for having a poor half, back in his teenage years. And it seems that many of the home games over the last year (including this season) have ended with boos from the Arsenal fans. It is disgraceful, and it will affect the players/staff, there can be little doubt. Also the groans and whinging from the fans when a pass doesn't come off or a shot goes wide (or, more often, isn't taken!) has to take a psychological toll.
damiano_tommassi
The booing has had such a psychological impact we have lost about 12 games at home in 5 years........Any excuse to deflect the blame away from the players, management or club.
iceman10
If we've lost so few games, why's everyone booing/so miserable?? It's not an excuse, it's a point of view. I believe firmly that the support Stoke, for instance, get from their fans is worth goals and points every year. Conversely, I think that the negativity around Arsenal costs us goals and points. Players get anxious, try to hard, end up making cock-ups. Call it an excuse if you like; I call it psychology.
damiano_tommassi
Explain our great home record then if the negativity around the stadium is so bad? Please im all ears.
iceman10
"Explain our great home record then if the negativity around the stadium is so bad?" --- Last season, Arsenal were fifth in the Premier League on home form, and top of the league for away form. Does that asnwer your query sufficiently?
damiano_tommassi
a) No that doesn't at all, our away support it just as, if not more, poisonous and negative than our home support. b) you don't really think that's why do you? Ignoring the main reasons such as us lacking creativity and killer instincts in the final third at home where teams see a draw as a results compared to them opening up at home?
shewore
a) playing at home has always been considered an advantage (hence 2-legged ties and finals at neutral venues); some of the reason for that is travel and cost, being in similar surroundings etc, but I think we'll all agree that the main advantage of a home game is the home crowd, right? Having a couple thousand away fans express disappointment in a stadium of 40,000 opposition fans isn't likely to make too much of a difference, and I have to say that in my experience Arsenal's away fans are much more supportive than the more expectant home fans. b) I genuinely believe the the negativity makes a signifcant difference, yes. How significant is hard to quantify, but I'll say at least 3 points a year. If we lack creativity and killer instincts, how come those abilities exist away from home where we don't have the same problem? And does the argument hold water when you consider that only one club scored more PL goals than Arsenal last season?
damiano_tommassi
Yes of course it does because, as i touched on above, teams set out differently at home because, as you say, there is more expected of them, can you not see that away games suit us more due to this? Home is considered an advantage most of the time but the lack of creative options we have at the moment i would prefer and away game any day of the week as teams come at you more, nothing more frustrating than teams doing nothing and just waiting for us to make a cock up or settline for a 0-0, which happened a few times last season at home.
shewore
So you have taken 1 season and dismissed the previous 4 in order to prove a point and put the blame on the fans. Well done........Anything to protect those who really have caused the real issues at our club.
iceman10
Shewore, I would agree that playing away suits us better because the opposition are more likely to open up a bit, which they definitely don't do when they come to us, absolutely. But you've alluded to half the problem there; when a team 'parks the bus' at the Emirates it's very hard to break them down. Harder if your patient passing game is regularly groaned at by the home fans, heaping pressure on the team rather than supporting them. This has seen the team push forward more, with all five midfielders and the striker often all in the final third, which in turn means that any move that doesn't end in a goal leads to the opposition booting the ball sixty yards and suddenly our defense is under pressure. I'm not saying that fans being stroppy is the ONLY reason for our problems, but it is a reason. In the previous seasons we finished 3rd/4th, 5th/4th and 2nd/2nd. Don't know what you want to take from that. I listed last season's results in response to the assertion that we have a great home record (which sadly isn't as true today as it was in the first few years at the Emirates) rather than to try to definitively prove anything. Not sure what 'real issues' you're referring to, ice; AFC is a massive football club, with plenty of quality players, a great stadium, the greatest manager in its history currently in charge, solid financially - who have started this season slowly and notwon a cup for six years. Would you rather be in Birmingham's shoes - win the CC but have no cash, manager walk out, drop a division? is that success, because they've won a cup? I don't know, I prefer the Arsenal version of success; competing with three of the richest clubs in the financially-doped world and sticking close to them while the FFP rules kick-in.
damiano_tommassi
 

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