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Manchester United 8 Arsenal 2

This must have been the first Arsenal game I`ve ever been to where every single member of our entourage predicted a convincing defeat. Nobody even chimed in with, "I`ve got a funny feeling we`ll get a result." I don`t ever remember travelling to Old Trafford with less anticipation and trepidation. Even the ever optimistic Lord Lowe said to me five minutes before kickoff. "If I were Arsene Wenger, I`d knock on Fergie`s door and say, 'Listen, no more than 3-0 today, no injuries and let`s call it quits.`" It would have been a good call in hindsight. All the talk for the journey north was in anticipation of a thrashing. I still don`t think we quite expected the humping we got.

The team sheet revealed a squad that has been neglected by the club in a quite appalling fashion. Arsenal F.C. really needs to reconnect with what its purpose is. When you see a squad of 18 players like the one we were forced to bring to the slaughter yesterday, it`s hard to believe the powers that be at the club have sufficient respect for what happens on the pitch. Francis Coquelin and Carl Jenkinson were lambs sent to slaughter; Armand Traore is stealing a living at Premiership level. The manager knows this; this is why Traore wasn`t even a substitute against Liverpool when Gibbs was injured. Yet our squad is still in such a pathetic state that he has to start against the Champions at Old Trafford. Eight players were out injured or suspended. Who could have foretold that Iron Man Kieran Gibbs would be injured? Or Abou 'Concrete` Diaby would be missing? Woe is our terrible fortune, when do Arsenal ever have an injury list the length of Joey Barton`s charge sheet?

So it was that young men who just aren`t ready and older heads that ought to know better were utterly pummelled in the final denouement for a summer that has been atrociously mismanaged by all concerned from beginning to end. When United opened the scoring, it was with embarrassing ease. Anderson looped a pass into the Arsenal area, Djourou bafflingly tried to shepherd the ball back to Szczesny. Welbeck easily shrugged him off and Koscielny showed a lack of willingness to put his head in where it hurts, leaving Welbeck to loop a header over the stranded Polish goalkeeper. We all knew it was to be a long afternoon. But a glimmer of light cracked through when Arshavin found Walcott careering into the area. Jonny Evans couldn`t cope with the pace and dragged Walcott back. Amazingly, Howard Webb gave a penalty. Against Manchester United. Truly an historic occasion.

Van Persie stepped up but, unusually, did so with all the conviction of a soggy wicket and placed a poor penalty to de Gea`s right which was easily saved. Despite the simplicity of the save, it was notable that the United players rushed to him as if he`d just aped Gordon Banks. That`s what good teams do. They sense a player low on confidence and try to pick him up. Arsenal don`t really do that. How can they? When a wide eyed, inexperienced young lad like Jenkinson for instance, looks up and sees other wide eyed, callow young lambs. Within three minutes, United`s ruthlessness doubled the ferocity of the blow. Evra found Rooney on the left hand side; his cross was met with the poorest of defensive headers from Armand Traore. The ball fell invitingly to Ashley Young on the edge of the box, which swerved a precise shot into the top corner. From here on, it was a pure damage limitation exercise in my opinion. It was an exercise that failed miserably.

The Gunners did briefly threaten a back line which wasn`t the most imposing I`ve seen them field against us. Arshavin`s strike from the edge of the box was turned away by de Gea, van Persie followed up, but de Gea was up smartly to block with his legs. But ultimately, it was scant window dressing for a complete collapse. Cleverley clipped a ball forward to Ashley Young; Carl Jenkinson was exposed and bundled Young to the floor on the edge of the area. The resulting free kick saw Rooney shit to Young. Nobody from the Arsenal wall charged. Rooney was given all the time he wanted to clip the shot into the top corner. A beleaguered away side did manage a scant consolation in first half injury time. Evra sliced a clearance in his penalty area. Ramsey headed the ball down to Rosicky. His pass found Walcott in the channel and his low finish beat de Gea. Once again, de Gea`s footing was poor from an angled shot.

Maybe the biggest indication that nobody thought a comeback was even remotely possible was reflected in the away support at the beginning of the second half. A 20 minute rendition of 'We Love You Arsenal` embarrassed a comparatively hushed home crowd. The reason it happened was because we knew we were beat and we knew it was going to get worse. It was an act of defiance, not confidence. I think everyone recognised that too. The second half was painful stuff. Nani found Ashley Young on the corner of the box and his low shot was beaten out by Szczesny. Arsenal did manage to create at 3-1. Rosicky`s lofted ball found van Persie in the area and his first time volley as well saved by de Gea. Ramsey`s curving pass then found Arshavin on the left. He motored past Smalling and made a bee line for goal, but his finish let him down when he screwed his shot into the side netting.

Tom Cleverley carved an increasingly powder puff defence apart when he played a smart one two with Hernandez, putting him clean through on goal, but he could only shoot straight at Szczesny. United`s movement just became too much for Arsenal. Nani, given free reign by Traore, played a pass into Hernandez. He flicked the ball around the corner for Rooney. Rooney fell softly under the slightest duress from Djourou. It was a foul, but I was sat diagonally in line with the offence and I can tell you for 100% certain that Webb did not see the infringement, unless he has eyes screwed into the back of his head. His back was 100% turned, so on what basis he gave Djourou a yellow card is, frankly, as beyond me as Arsenal`s current transfer policy. Still, Rooney once again shifted to Young and once again the Arsenal wall didn`t charge and once again the ball flew into the corner.

The seams were bursting before that. The seams were straining before kickoff. But the 4th goal precipitated a collapse the likes of which Arsenal fans have become accustomed to. Rooney found no challenger at the precipice of the Gunners box, comfortably picked a pass to Nani inside the area. Were Arsenal trying to play offside? If so, Jenkinson and Traore didn`t get the memo. Nani was well onside and dinked a smart finish over Szczesny. An abject performance was starting to become arthritic when Park found Young in the Gunners area, Young was, you guessed it, unchallenged. Pulled the ball back to Ji Sung Park who, yes, went unchallenged to slot a finish low into the corner. "I`m Arsenal till I die" came the chant from the East Stand, Lower. That`s a song I`ve always associated with teams that are despairingly average.

Executive relief arrived in the form of another consolation. Ramsey played another impressive arcing pass to Jenkinson down the right. His original delivery was headed away by Phil Jones. Jenkinson followed up to head the ball back to the back post, where van Persie rifled home his tenth goal in eleven away matches. But a more unwanted landmark arrived in the shape of Arsenal`s third red card in their opening three games. That`s a record no other club can boast. Rooney`s searching pass once again found Jenkinson exposed, he bundled Hernandez to the ground and earned a second yellow card. The ultimate symbol of a young man hung out to dry by his manager. Jenkinson was playing non league football under a year ago.

Further calamity was afoot. Park found Evra inside the area; Walcott gave him a shove in the back (when really a kick in the knackers would`ve been more to my liking). Webb correctly pointed to the spot and Rooney did not err to collect his hat trick. I have to say; at this point I`m thoroughly bored of describing United goals. I don`t have enough vocabulary anymore, save to say Giggs set up Young to seal the rout. It was a game which really should have delivered the starkest of messages to the manager, the board and everyone at the club that this summer has been an absolute shambles of dithering and withering. They have less than three days now to correct three months of total inaction. I`ve heard some say the travelling support should be refunded. It`s a sweet thought but not one I`m behind. I watched Arsenal win the league in that ground when I was 18. I didn`t expect a surcharge after the game based on the event. You pay for a football match, everything else is chance. What is clear, is that the club cannot take anymore in the next 72 hours. The players we put out yesterday were nowhere near the quality of United`s, but I wouldn`t expect a Championship side to ship 8 at Old Trafford. The club is utterly demoralised, the players, the manager, the supporters. Time to get out of a rut and into a groove. LD.

13.SZCZESNY, 25.JENKINSON, 20.DJOUROU, 6.KOSCIELNY, 30.TRAORE, 39.COQUELIN (15.Chamberlain `62), 16.RAMSEY, 7.ROSICKY, 14.WALCOTT (46.Lansbury `82), 23.ARSHAVIN, 10.v.PERSIE(c) (29.Chamakh `82). Unused: 21.Fabianski, 49.Miquel, 52.Ozakyup, 54.Sunu.

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The Journalist

Writer: Tim Stillman Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday August 29 2011

Time: 12:51PM

Your Comments

Dare I say the match yesterday might turn out to be a good thing? It might be the catalyst that's needed to force Wenger into spending
deaduncleted
"Time to get out of a rut and into a groove" thats a classy finish to the article LD. The pic on the article says it all really, we are down in the dumps currently - a mixture of incompetence in squad planning, transfers, player revolt (Cesc, Nasri), injury and suspensions. Shocking and saddening display yesterday from a team who forgot the basics of the pressing game we showed good glimpses of last season. We gave too much space, time and chance for United to batter us with. Even basic desire in closing down their offensive players - a matter of work rate would have narrowed the extent of the loss. Was it that the team was tired physically or tired mentally, I have no clue but whats beyond doubt now is that the club needs a boost. In the time that we have before the game against Swansea we have so much work to do. Get 3-4 quality players in, get some tough training drills in pressing the ball, fitness and basic football discipline and prepare for the long road ahead this season.
Deltaforce
A sad day for English football. The day it became evident to EVERYBODY how much money has ruined football. Dont get me wrong i enjoyed seeing David Silva play yesterday almost as much as watching you get literally ravished at OT. But in hindsight this was a bad thing. The Premiership will become like La Liga. Not even Liverpool can compete at the top now. Chelsea have the russian but their squad is ageing. Everybody else is screwed. At least you have the stadium, we dont even have that! And at least Cesc & Nasri wanted to play for you unlike Modric who's little bitching every day is making me feel ill.
HuddersfieldYiddo
PL Teams who operate within their financial means can be likened to an athlete who has to run an Olympic level sprint using no steroids or external stimulus. These clubs can only make up the numbers against the heavily financially doped clubs who will inevitably rise to the top. Just like there are routine dope checks in all sports, football clubs must have similar type of checks to ensure a level financial playing field. That said, as a gooner I strongly believe that our club has not used its carefully constructed financial stability and strength to its advantage on the pitch. We dont need any external investment, the resources are there, only the right players need to be found and an acceptable price agreed.
Deltaforce
Arsene has let me down. Big time! If it's time to go, then so be it. This is humiliating and demoralising. Is he saying that he doesn't look at all the players in the PL and think they have quality? Why can't he bid from other PL teams too? I'm sure he can come up with an 11 that is worth something even if it's back to the 1 nil to the Arsenal days! Just defend and **** the beautiful football! Who would want to play for us now? Why not buy a left back rather than play Sagna in that position? Gibbs will forever be injured and that's the reality of things. No midfield and they can't defend to save a life! I a horrified, and just to save his reputation, changes have to be made. End of the road for u Arsene!
e dubbz
What a sad state of affairs our club has come to. I cant believe how devoid of top quality we are as a squad. To leave rebuilding to the last couple of days in the window is criminally irresponsible by both board and manager. Everyone can see we are in a mess, the ironic thing is that we are now going to end up overpaying for average players than overpaying for top quality just to get ourselves a half reasonable squad and having to work night and day to get these players in. It was obvious Nasri & Cesc were going to leave. Cesc has been leaving for 2 years!!!! The only people who seems to believe this was not going to happen was Wenger and key board members. Why have we not been preparing replacements months in advance. this is not taking into account the players the management want to get rid of anyway. IQ levels at the club must have dropped rapidly over the last couple of years to let matters get into this state of ill-preparation for as competitive season.
deadlydave
can't believe it that it is still hurting me... ouch... this feels like a funeral, football-wise..
fcdematthew
At Vital Spurs we have had 1.650 posts on 2 articles (1,000 limit on posts) about the Man City game. We were well beaten, due to Harry's selection of players and injuries... Harry has said Modric's bitching about not wanting to play 2 hours BEFORE the game, has put fans against him now... So I can sympthise with you gooners, as to losing top players and injuries and heavy defeats... Now for both clubs the need for new players, and Manager wake up call is evident.
Block D Spurs
"They have less than three days now to correct three months of total inaction." Don't be surprised if Wenger buys that Korean player only because we have many world class players coming back from their permanent injuries.
fcdematthew
Wenger says we only buy players who are better than the current players we have. Is the task that hard? In my mind, I have so many players whom I don't think are good enough to play for a top club challenging for the league title.
fcdematthew
Haha north london is rocking!!....
Dannism
For sure, we need a good left-back. Maybe Baines. Sorry to say that Gibbs and Traore will never make it into any top 4 clubs these days. If Sagna is made to play at left back, maybe he is the next one to request to leave next summer, or even maybe January.
fcdematthew
Walcott, seriously, has no footballing brain. He is more like a sprinter playing football. To depend on him to perform consistently would be suicidal.
fcdematthew
Arshavin... Is he even interested in playing for Arsenal?
fcdematthew
Johan Djourou.. no matter how hard he tries, he is only good when we deal with teams outside the top 5. A good cover, but not a big game player. Always feel that he is one of our people, but he is just not good enough.
fcdematthew
To still see Henri Lansbury on our team sheet is very worrying.
fcdematthew
Yes, I am sounding bitter because I am feeling bitter.
fcdematthew
In Arsene we trust. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......arsenal sori soon u'll become a gooner.hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Chelsea till i die.
ebulonse
Great write up about a very sad event LD. Unlike anyone officially employed by AFC you have a realistic view of our deficiencies. I nominate you as temporary manager while Wenger takes an 8 week vacation to assess his priorities.
smithdj74
I can relate to blackpool at the grove last season. Fans still singing at the end. love the fans(away fans)! For arsenal there is only one direction to go and that is up!
GunnaBlazing
I'd 8 2 be Arsene Wronger Right Now..........Really gut-wrenching time to be a gooner right now.I've heard through the grapevine as well that we are in for some Korean Striker who costs 3M...you could'nt even dream this stuff up if you tried.Absolute Shambles.AFC Needs a Miracle and Fast!!!!
GHGooner
Have to give a big hand to our away support yesterday, you included LD. Truly magnificent in the face of the absolute dross you were forced to watch. The club need to spend the money they want to refund the fans on players instead. Our defence is the laughing stock of the prem, and has been for quite a while now. But obviously not in Wenger's mind. Anyway, well done all the gooners who continued to sing on deck as the sea closed over their heads.
Wyn Mills
Bob Wilson came up with a classic quote yesterday on Twitter. I think from General Patton. Success is defined by how high you bounce after you hit rock bottom. On that positive note I would like to forget yesterday's events and move on. 2 days Arsene. To bounce back from rock bottom.
Eboue=GOD
No amount of money or tickets can compensate anyone for what they were forced to witness yesterday. The dross that was served could have covered all the dustbins in the world.
Eboue=GOD
Read somewhere yesterday that there is rock bottom, three layers of *****, and then us. Lol.
Wyn Mills
I just can not belive that there are still people that want to give him more time!! cant and won't use his name. Truth be told I'd rather we did not spend on players now, got rid of him and left the cash for the new manager in January annd next summer. Buying players now is not going to help us much and this winter is going to be all about damage limitations.
Armory
Armory, I agree. It's unbelievable but maintaining any competitive hold in the premier league now is our main priority. With the defence we have that going to be a big ask!!
deadlydave
It is utterly bemusing that we are in this mess. So bemusing that I think there must be a fundamental problem with the internal politics around the club. Why is it that everyone, the manager, the assistant, the coaching staff and players seems so poker faced on match days? Why is RvP looking so lacking in confidence and why did Rosicky walk away from the wall without as much as a curious glance to see the outcome of Rooney’s first free kick? Why was the body language between Gazidis and Wenger so strained against Udinese? Why are we having such ridiculous indiscipline; Gervinho, Song, Arshavin who should have been sent off against Utd and Wenger himself? Why not have targets already lined up and when identified, make a decent offer? (Why are we satisfied with only one injury-prone LB?) I wonder whether the board has denied Wenger the money to strengthen the squad and it’s making everyone look stupid and Wenger is trying to cover. Maybe the players sense this and maybe Nasri was alluding to it when he remarked about the different atmosphere at City. A lot of questions but the whole situation is so bizarre that you couldn’t make it up!
Sir Henry
Armory, dealing with people who dont have an exactly similar point of view to you may be something you need to work on then. On what problems our clubs faces we can agree but on the remedy of the problems as suggested by you I can not agree with. Thanks in advance for understanding.
Deltaforce
Fair play to the people behind the scenes at Arsenal who have offered the travelling fans free tickets to an away match of their choice this season.
spursftw
Never have had proplem with different opinions or belives DF, I however am finding it more or less impossible to understand some peoples belive that he should still be given more time. it is becomming like seens from the bunker....total denial. And not a single credible counter argument other than spouting his clices.
Armory
Don't know where to start, the level of the defeat leaves so much to be rectified. At the end of the day, it isnt the Nasri and Fabregas sales that were the difference between the two sides, it was more than that. In any event, it could be argued that gervinho was nasri's replacement. How it is justifiable at our club to have our back up players in each and every position to be players who have hardly played any, if any, prem football? In years past, they would only get a look in on the bench if we had had this many injuries. Which means, we are down in the region of 5 players. That is a scary though, 5 players in 3 days? unlikely, and if we are within shouting distance of the top four in jan, it will be by the skin of our teeth. You cannot blame the front three, when the back four and midfield were over run in the way that they were. There was no ball retention, no interceptions, no possession and therefore no service. If things don't improve down that end of the pitch, it is going to be a long long season
jl13
If the hatred of the manager who despite his faults has given a lot of his life to the club reaches a point when you refer to him as one whose name shall not been spoken ala voldemort, it shows a blinding hatred which will eclipse anything else you perceive about the team. On the other side, believing in Wenger blindly is blinkered as well. You fall in the first extreme Armory and I cant relate to you because of that.
Deltaforce
Hey we're behind the club and the players..Just not behind the manager and the management.. They have let us all down big time. Watched the match on the TV with some mancs, as hurricane Irene was roaring outside. Sang and clapped till the end. Come on Ivan, Stan and Arsene - dont you see everything you've built disintegrating before your eyes...Please act soon.
Sajit
Deltaforce, its not hatred. Just that - if for all my previous good work, I had six very average years at my workplace - I would be discarded without a second thought. Another abject summer - probably the worst ever. And this time, theres no papering over the cracks either.
Sajit
Sajit, thanks for the reply but I was addressing Armory in my post.
Deltaforce
You know its really bad when messages of commiseration start coming from your rivals ....Ferguson and Guardiola calling on people to lay off Wenger. Man, I dont think Arsene has seen anything yet if he fails to bring any reinforcements in. 8-2...i still can barely take it in.
Wyn Mills
Read the comments here and on other sites DF I have never been into name calling and my reluctance to say his name simply shows how much he has fallen in my eyes and I was a paid up founder member of AKB. But unlike some I can and will use my own judgement and did so last year when "judge me in May" had become an annual mantra, we kept on selling players and buying dross and players to young to sholder the responcibility he was loading them with. In there there are few dimonds like Vermalien but they are becoming the exseption rather than the norm. Thats why I am prepered to accsept that no players will come in but as long as he goe's. Will alwyes remember him for the good things he did but, sorry he is fast eroding the little good will that is left.
Armory
Fair enough Armory. Though I cant relate to your position I understand it. Similarly, please understand if others take a divergent view to yours.
Deltaforce
I think Sir Henry has a point. One of the reasons that removing the manager will achieve precisely zero is because there just has to be more to this than meets the eye.
Little Dutch
I completely agree with Sir Henry as well. Have been saying that transfer policy is not Wenger's realm alone. The club has changed post the acquisition by Kroenke and us fans cant gauge who is in charge of what right now. Whats clear is that the manager's power has eroded because in the manager's own words "20 people are working on transfers". Although an exagerration, it points to multiple power centres at the club now.
Deltaforce
I think there might have been a clash of opinion between the board(when I say that I mean Stan and his man Gazidis) and Arsene. I have a feeling it is about one or both of the Cesc and Nasri departures. I think it was most probably a board decision to let Cesc go for a lower fee. I think if you asked Arsene he would have wanted to keep him. Cesc was his gem. The person around which his whole youth project revolved. Cesc going was the final nail in the coffin for that project. And I think Arsene never would have wanted that to happen. He still believed he could salvage it.
Eboue=GOD
If thats the case, then Wenger needs to resign volunatrily. If his hands are tied and he is being asked to cover up someone else's arse , I dont see any reason why he should take any more flak than he has to. He's the public face of the club and is going to be in the firing line.
Sajit
What's in it for Wenger to keep quiet about the board denying him money? Not saying it isn't true but I don't get how he benefits from being silent as if he doesn't reinforce the squad the fans will make his job untenable.
Iceman10
Worst performance I have seen for a long time think u need to spend fast only a few days left if u don't mid table if u are lucky.
footballtaz1
Sajit, to quote a recent example remember what happened when Martin O'Neil resigned on the eve of the season last year for Aston Villa? Normally a club which finished in the range of 5th and 7th positions in the league Villa slipped to 9th. If a Manager resigns he needs to resign at the start of the summer when there is time for a new philosophy, players sold, players bought who beleive in the new manager's philosophy, new playing style in pre season training etc. There can be no knee jerk reactions here, the timing of a manager's exit is very important for the club.
Deltaforce
HY has it exactly right--it started with Chelsea but Man City's arrival has essentially destroyed any notion of genuine sporting competition in the PL. For the first time, I took no pleasure in seeing Spurs getting thrashed. Ironically I've been a huge fan of so many City players who I followed in their previous leagues but now when I watch them I just feel like I'm watching the death of English football. None of that is to deny that Arsene & the Board have been massively incompetent and derelict this summer (there are no adequate words to describe their ineptitude) - but it's not just this summer, it's all the problems we've discussed ad nauseum for the last few yrs. Yes we had many inexperienced youngsters out there but we also had experienced players out there-it's no excuse for conceding 8 goals. Thank you so much to the away fans--you kept the pride intact on enemy territory. Extraordinary.
jaelle
Id like to repeat what iceman just said.. Why is Wenger quiet about the board denying him the money if that is the situation? Why should he take the flak for someone else's incompetence? I see little reason for him to hang on if he doesn't get the freedom and funds he needs but at the same time has to toe Stan's line about funds being available.
Sajit
As for AW himself...I do not understand why some gooners at this point trash others for wanting him gone. I am not among them yet-I'm on the fence, actually. You can disagree, definitely--but to trash thoughtful fans who up to now have strongly supported him, who are not of the legrove tribe, but who've now concluded maybe it's time he does go-is simply wrong. It is at this point a perfectly legitimate position to take. Whatever happens, always remember that we've been competitive these last 15 yrs NOT due to money but because of one man's vision and talents. Unlike Chelsea & Man City, we've been at the top of English & Euro football due to REAL SPORTING MERIT - we've EARNED it thru MERIT. Not because we've bought trophies by throwing money around.
jaelle
Well said Jaelle.
nikolaijns
When did Herr Wenger sign the Keystone Cops?
GPL1905
@ jaelle : That's hilarious!
GPL1905
Jaelle : For many years the Premiership was a closed shop of four clubs who went into the Champions League, got the revenues and stayed in this closed group. All you Arsenal fans had no problem with this state of affairs but when other teams like Chelsea and Man City break the cabal by spending a bit of money, you all howl and call it the death of English football. Please explain why Arsenal have pocketed £60 millon and then talk about buying a mid level South Korean for a fee of a few million and only offer £6million for Cahill, an England international. Surely you guys have failed to stay up with the pace in the transfer market, even though you have the money. You can't have it bothways either make a profit and see your team buy second rate players or invest your money on top class players. But please dont criticise teams for trying t compete at the highest level by doing what you should have done, two seasons ago and that is invest in top class players. It is as though you want everyone to compete t a lower level because you are not prepared to spend money you have got in your coffers.
Wswilly3
willy, firstly the top three clubs - United, Liverpool and Arsenal earned their money by being consistently successful, having a large fan following and smart business practices. Most importantly they spent what they earned. They maintained this for decades on end to become larger than other clubs. Chelsea and City dont spend what they earn, the money comes from a benefactor so the success of the clubs can be attributed to these benefactors and not anything the clubs have done. Chelsea could as well be Abramovich FC because he is responsible for them being in the top 3 today and City is most definitely Mansour FC.
Deltaforce
thanks for a well written objective article LD i sat in front of my telly in sunny cornwall on sunday afternoon, and couldnt quite comprehend what was happening in all my 60 odd years of living and breathing arsenal, i have never felt so low and despondant the shots of our supporters during the game said it all my heart went out to them having to sit through such a humiliation and then to listen to le boss on sky sports today saing he needs more time and the announcement htat were about to cough up 3 million for a south korean nonnentity that no one outside seoul has heard of relly summed up the state of our club i dont know what the answer long term will be, but a gut reaction to get rid of wenger is out of the question. we only have 48 hours left in the window, and i really cant see us making any meaningfull signings in tha short time, i only hope im wrong, and a miracle happens i just hope and pray that the board and the manager sit down and resolve this crisis soon and i use the word crisis advisedly, as this is fast turning into a disaster of epic proportions the next 48 hours are going to be a season defining 48 hours, i have and will always believe in arsenal,and know that sooner rather than later our glory days will return " but please let it be this season " and remember, it took untd 21 years between titles
cornish gooner
Wenger is a man of (painfully) stoic integrity and will not show divisiveness within the camp. He is merely following the financial doctrine of recent years and to renege on that would imply that he has failed as the manager who can nurture youth/talent.
Sir Henry
Dear Mr Wenger, I am writing to inform you that, regretfully, after very careful consideration, the board have decided that you should not continue as the manager of Arsenal Football Club. You should therefore consider yourself relieved of your role as Head Coach with immediate effect. The reason for your dismissal is a poor run of results. You should clear your desk by 11.30am. A supervisor will meet you at the training ground to assistance you in this process should you require it. You should not leave any personal possessions behind, and the taking of any of Arsenal PLC’s property will be considered theft and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Our financial advisors will be in contact shortly to discuss your severance package. Thank you for your contribution to Arsenal Football Club and The Fly Emirates Stadium Corporation.
Tony Rocky Horror
Delta explained it very well, thanks. Wswilly3, if you can't see the difference between a club that sustains itself and succeeds by spending limited money it has earned thru its own business and a club that spends limitless cash that is totally unrelated to its football business then I can't enlighten you. There is NO equivalence between success earned by Arsenal and United (who were successful long before the Glazers came around-and Utd haven't built some kind of fantasy bloated squad of foreign mercenaries) and Chelsea or City. Those clubs have bought trophies outright-not by the special merit of one manager but entirely due to the money their owner throws around. United and Arsenal have players coming thru from their academies. Chelsea have almost none. City used to boast about their academy and used to trash Arsenal for being too foreign. I don't hear too much from City fans anymore about their academy (it will languish just like Chelsea's) and they have far more foreign players than we do. Both clubs just buy expensive players from around the world, expensive managers and throw them together. Like that takes special skill. There is NO real sporting merit in what they do.
jaelle
We didn't want to hear about your wet dream troll.
Deltaforce
Willy, how come City have enough players of top quality to field 2 premiership teams. How are they paying the wages and transfer fees for these players, most of whom sit on the bench or worse not selected at all. You can't argue that it's from revenue generated by the club!!!. Your point however on Arsenal's spending or lack of it is however spot on. We can't compete with the billionaire owners who can put their hands in their pockets whenever they want but we can prepare to compete effectively by the start of a season surely. What is happening now with Arsenal is so stupid as to defy belief. Long term, the issue of the "big egotistical owners will have to be curtailed for the good of the game, or face a future league like what the Spanish have!!
deadlydave
Just a bit of fun. Don't tell me that you wouldn't love it. And to all those bleating about financial doping I say wake up, because you've got it badly, badly wrong. Look at United. They were amazing and they are millions in debt!! It's just an excuse for whiners and losers! Ferguson is actually working with meagre resources and yet time and again he shows the rest of you up. If you've got belief, self-drive, and discipline, and good judgement, there's nothing you can't do. Wenger has had money and spent it very poorly. Redknapp got it wrong and paid the price. Forget the money, stop giving yourself the right to self-pity. A winner is a winner whether he has a million in his pocket or 20p. Arsenal and Tottenham played like losers. And that;s . Get a grip. This is a game for men, for winners. Stop kidding yourselves.
Tony Rocky Horror
TRH, if this is a game for men and winners what are you doing here?
Deltaforce
Willy has an extreme sense of entitlement there won't be any changing his views, Tony...well Tony is just a complete and utter W@nk£r but you all knew that.
Iceman10
Couldnt give a rats arse about Chelski or Man *****ty. What concerns me is the state of our club, and a management team that appear more interested in maximising profits than success on the field. If Wenger is starting the season with his hands tied then someone needs to start telling the fans the truth. The silence from the boardroom is deafening.
Wyn Mills
Look, all I'm saying is that people going on and on about how "it's not fair cos they've got money" are wrong. It doesn't matter what City have spent: the marking was slack, the players should have done better. Money isn't the fixed entity that people think it is, that's an illusion. Give one man a fiver and he'll turn it into a million dollars. Give another one a million and he'll be going through your bins soon enough, because he's *****ed it away. One's a loser, one's a winner. To those saying that Wenger should hurl money at the problem, I say no, that's totally wrong. It's not about money. It's about picking the right players. He hasn't picked the right players and that's why he is so far in the *****.
Tony Rocky Horror
yes we did, Iceman - I don't bother to read his posts anyway. Another point re City - they have so many players they can't offload with very high wages so they loan them out and agree to pay half of their wages. How do you compete with a club like that? Sport is about competition-City and Chelsea have destroyed that. I find myself focusing more and more on other leagues where there's real competition even if the football might be of lesser quality. All of this is separate from the abject incompetence shown by our club this summer and the serious failings in the manager and players in the last 5 yrs.
jaelle
WHERE ARE THE AKBs?
Dannism
Think about it this way: Let's say you've got Adams, Viera, Henry, Pires. What did they cost I wonder? A fair whack but nothing compared to their astronomical combined value after a few years at Gooners. Wenger added that value. I could buy a house, right now, do it up, and add massive value to it. Or I could spunk millions on a white elephant that loses me money.
Tony Rocky Horror
Absolutely wrong again TRH you are confusing the problem at your club with that at ours. Spurs have bought quantity and not enough quality. Bentley, Pav, Pienaar, Keane, Crouch, Hutton, Kaboul I rest my case. Arsenal on the other hand have not replaced Cesc. Have not replaced Clichy and only partially replaced Eboue. There is a problem of numbers here for Arsenal because when Wenger does buy he usually buys quality. Harry wouldn't know quality if it sat on his mug.
Deltaforce
Jesus, the self-pity on here is in full flow.
Tony Rocky Horror
Wenger usually buys quality? Hmmm. I'll let that one go in order to service my main intention. Which is to question this assertion that money equals success, blah, blah, and "it's not fair, blah, blah". ***** can be turned into gold and the other way around. If you fail, then you fail because you weren't clever enough. Tough shiz, it ain't no-body else's fault.
Tony Rocky Horror
Right, so there is no correlation between Abramovich's takeover of Chelsea and their rise. Ofcourse it is an accident that City's rise coincides with them becoming the playthings of an Emirate royal. We must be dreaming it all up and only the troll knows the truth.
Deltaforce
Your own club weren't the richest when you won the title, were they? You can still succeed even if you don't have masses of money.
Tony Rocky Horror
As I said elsewhere, I was watching the match with Gus Caesar. He had a look in his eyes at the end like he'd been stabbed in the back. I said "what's the problem Gus?", and he said "eight two.....brutal".
lordjohnny
OT: jaelle, I know you know abt South American footie.. How do you rate Andre Santos? Apparently we're in for the lb from fenerbache.
Sajit
Rocky, "Your own club weren't the richest when you won the title, were they? You can still succeed even if you don't have masses of money". That used to be true. Now the billionaire owners, agent etc make sure that the best players are tempted with all the riches in the world until they get what they want. Look at the Modric situation for example, his heads not right to play but the wages are still being paid! Wonder what my employer would say if I do the same thing? A P45 at the speed of light I do think! You can't blame the players for being set up for life and taking the money, but you do have to recognise the sea change in football and the differing attitudes these professional players now have and take action or else all the rest of us supporters of clubs with this think of money to burn are just going to make up the numbers .
deadlydave
Chelsea bought Torres for 50 million. That money helped finance Liverpool's comeback. Now suddenly we're evil. lol. Buying players for twice their price, selling them for half. That's Chelsea Evil Club right there.
k.chelski
You're not suddenly evil kev. You've been evil since the russian mafia rocked up.
nikolaijns
Still mad about the Cole-Gallas transfer? : p. Seriously now, West Brom nearly beat Chelsea and United. You lost because of lack of motivation and organization. Not because of lack of players. The league is more exciting than ever. You have Chelsea United City Liverpool Arsenal and Tottenham fighting for the top places. That wasn't the case before. Sturridge actually rejected more money from City to move to Chelsea. Not all players are mercenaries.
k.chelski
You have Ancelotti available. A fine manager. Sacking the manager sends a message to the rest of the staff. Ancelotti will also give you stability. But meh, what do I know.
k.chelski
Just saw Barca demolish Spain's 4th best team - that's what the PL is close to becoming
jaelle
Sajit-I am no fan of Andre Santos, he doesn't belong on our national team nor anyone else's. Most Brazilians feel the same way. Very limited player. However, we're desperate and he is experienced. He's a favorite of Dunga's and Mano's (we've got better LBs than him). He's got a decent goal-scoring record, is 28 yrs old. He's certainly better than Traore-better than Gibbs only in that he's more experienced but I think Gibbs has more skill. I don't think he's better than Clichy. I guess for the price it's not a bad deal. Just think Arsenal deserve better - but we can't really quibble right now.
jaelle
k.chelski, you are right not all are money mad, but human nature being what it is most are. As for the league ,all the rest are fighting for 4th spot. You not telling me they are going to out do Manu, City and Chelsea are u????? That's the best that all rest can hope for now with the finances as they are now. It will be the same next year too.
deadlydave
Liverpool has quite a strong team, deadlydave.
k.chelski
admit it guys Manchester is the capitol of football in this country, and as for North London, well it looks like its fell well behind the pecking order, funds need to be found and spent for it to be reversed, but then city is the anti christ as far as you goners are concerned, at least Spurs have the grace to say they were well beaten and by a better team, and not bleat about the money that has been spent, now those times are back and money needs to be spent, the kids may come good or they may not it's a gamble and at the minute it's not working...... just ask yourselves is city having the means to compete in the transfer market not good for the english game? as the worlds top players are coming to England, and not just to Arsenal, Liverpool, or the rags, or do you want the cartel that existed in the 90's and 00's.... and dont give me that we earned our money bollox...... cos it was to the detriment of the 'smaller'' clubs, but i know the answer as it will not be rational..... but i live in hope.
cityman51
Cityman51, so your club is so obviously solvent then heh????? All these transfers and wages paid out of your supporters pockets. I don't begrudge you success or defend the system that happened in the past. Just don't tell me that we will end up with 10/12 clubs a year having a chance to the win the league. It's suppossed to be a sport not a millionaire's tea party.
deadlydave
Thanks for that jaelle... Some of my other brazillian friends told me that hes better than Clichy and Gibbs attacking wise but worse of defending than either of them... Didnt see him put in too many tackles on youtube. :-)..but hey beggars cannot be choosers.
Sajit
Cityman, do you think it would be beneficial to let me contest the 100m Olympic final with a jetpack? I mean, Usain Bolt is operating a cartel in that sport and it's not fair. I mean, I know I didn't train for hours upon hours to be a 100m sprinter or to compete with Bolt, but no fair. I want. Gimme.
Little Dutch
LD, that would be against he rules. What City are doing isn't. You really need to stop passing the book. Arsenal have the ability to remain competitive in the transfer market but they choose not to, whether that's because of one man's blind stubborness or controlled from above the situation you are in is of your own doing. Some on this thread need to stop behaving like Kevin from Kevin an Perry fame and get on with it.
Bluedub
Did you even bother reading the article that I wrote up there bluedub? I've addressed Arsenal's failures in the transfer market this summer dozens of times and don't deny we've been under active. But it was a City fan that came on here and brought the subject of your spending up. You simply cannot deny that your current success is down to external influence, nothing to do with sport whatsoever and thereby, making a mockery of the game. You guys have tried to bring up Arsenal and United's spending and we've gently pointed out that the money ourselves and United have spent has been earned by being well run sports teams and businesses. It's a very simple ethos that is at the core of any capitalistic society. You simply cannot deny that your current success is not down to Manchester City Football Club in any way shape or form, simple as that. It is a 100% indisputable fact. You'll notice that not one individual here has bemaoned United's superior resource to us or their superiority over us as a team, because it's been earned by a good manager and sound business practises. If you don't want to keep having this conversation, I'd suggest not coming onto messageboards that have sod all to do with Citeh and spewing your complex all over it.
Little Dutch
LD, I did read the article and it was a good read. You're wrong about it being a City fan that brought the thread in this direction, it was in fact a Spurs fan that did that. I was simply pointing out to you that your Usain Bolt analogy is misplaced as that would be breaking the rules, City haven't broke any rules. My point about Kevin and Perry wasnot aimed at you so I feel it's you that has the complex my friend.
Bluedub
k.chelski - £50 MILLION paif for Torres did not fund Liverpools revival you clown. We didnt want to sell and wedidnt need the money. The suarez deal was arranged BEFORE Torres left and he was supposed to partner Torres before you came in.
I Bling Red
You must be blind too because the last time i checked teh new American owners came in and promised to spend which they have done. We were going to spend with Torres being sold or without. It was your clown of a club that have no concept of pricing players that in typical stupid Chelsea fashion went and overpaid on a product on its last legs @ k.chelski
I Bling Red
Dont start trying to say that your small club helped that. Your small club incapable of spending what it generates because youre not a worlwide phenomenon like Liverpool , United or Arsenal were nothing but an irritating hinderance spending the fudns of an extternal benefactor. As Delta force rightly stated above. Chelsea should be known as Ambramovich FC because theyre in the top 4 because of him not Chelsea FC, the small nothing club that they are.
I Bling Red
excuse the spelling errors.
I Bling Red
Just as i type that i now see reports of Ambramovich FC trying to take YET ANOTHER Liverpool player. Cant you Chavs just ***** OFF and find your own players..?
I Bling Red
I support Liverpool but all you City fans are slating Gooners but you`re all hypocrites. Youre complaining that the money is not messing up te competion , but when when you were stuggling you were all bnitiching about how the big clubs have all the resources and how money is wrecking the game. Now all of a sudden money isnt wrecking the game . Youre all hypocrites, if those new FIFA regulations are enforced with or without your money you will be forced to copmpete based on your size and stature which whether you want to admit or not is small.
I Bling Red
excuse the spelling errors.
I Bling Red
Bluedub, many gooners here have already said that our club could be more proactive in the transfer market so you are not the first to point this out. That issue is seperate and the issue of financial doping is seperate. Just like we cant sweep the first issue under the carpet, you cant sweep the second issue aside.
Deltaforce
Delta, I'm not sweeping anything aside. The reason for my post was to point out that it's not City's fault that Arsenal are in their current situation, some people here seem to be suggesting it is. The initial part of my post was a response to LD's analogy which would suggest City aren't playing by the rules.
Bluedub
Bluedub, you say City is playing by the rules but the point is that right now there are no rules concerning financial fair play! If there were rules, would a club be allowed to spend 100 - 200 million pounds every transfer window without having adequate revenue? The fact is the FFP rule is going to be implemented from 2013-2014 and the first time a club can be excluded from European competition is 2014-2015. Right now, there are no rules!
Deltaforce
Ok I'll put it this way, LD suggested City were cheating. Better now?
Bluedub
Lets agree to disagree Bluedub because its apparent to almost everyone who is not a City fan that you have an advantage which is unfair.
Deltaforce
I never said it wasn't unfair mate but it's not cheating.
Bluedub
I Bling Red brings up an excellent point that adds to my original one re City fans' hypocrisy-before they joined the millionnaires' club they'd complain about the unfair competition by the big clubs and their money. Now it's a different story and it's all fair and City are doing nothing wrong.
jaelle
It didn't matter to you that it was unfair Jaelle when the same clubs were monopolising the CL money for years giving them a distinct advantage over the rest, the CL prize money, TV money are way too high by comparison to the domestic leagues hence leaving a ridiculous situation whereby the rest couldn't compete financially and as such could not break the monopoly. Or am I wrong did you in fact see the unfair situation for what it was.
Bluedub
Why has nobody answered the point that Arsenal do have the money to compete in the transfer market but seem incapable of getting over of going over a few million for insignificant players that most buffs have never heard about previously. They have just got £60million in and could compete with both City and Chelsea if they werent so mean or so stubborn. Why not make a real bid for a Kak or a Sneidjer or a Rossi. What the hell is holding you lot back.You seem more intent on moaning about City and Chelsea than getting off your back sides and competing at the top level.
Wswilly3
I Bling red, please be more appreciative of what we did for you. We got you out of financial hardship. :- )
k.chelski
getting off your back sides and competing at the top level. Jesus listen to the cheek of the old timer. 1 FA cup in 35 yrs now they're all Billy beach ball bollix. 4 points off you last year and 15 yrs competing in the champions league. It's that kind of newfound misplaced braggadaccio that really grinds peoples gears gramps.
nikolaijns
blue dub are you completely stupid, or are you in the middle of a thesis on how to be and sound like a complete plank if you are, then your going to pass with honours
cornish gooner
Why's that Cornish?
Bluedub
bluedubs alright cornish, he is allowed to post in defence of his club and has never come here trolling or waving his willy unlike some.
nikolaijns
Decided to stay off the forums for a couple of days after the result, that was quite depressing to watch. It was telling that ManU did not start in their normal 4-5-1 against Arsenal, which really showed that they do not consider us a threat anymore. It was tactical ineptitude on Arsenal's part. If the personnel are not around, surely Wenger could have started with a 4-5-1 himself, and break on the counter with the speed of Theo. The defensive performance was awful, and I don't care that so many 1st teamers were out. The Arsenal coaching staff need to work on their drills more effectively. My biggest criticism from this game goes to the coaching staff and Wenger himself, not so much the players (apart from Traore who was jogging back after 60 mins, when defensive urgency was required).
prits
Wswilly, there is such a thing known as wages. Arsenal could afford to sign Juan Mata for 24M, but the wages on offer at Chelsea are much higher than Arsenal. The highest earner at Arsenal makes 90K per week. Its not a complex issue to understand, you know.
prits
this thread started out as a wake for what happened at the swamp, now it has turned into a city and chelsea ruining football all over again, lets get one thing straight, the ENGLISH PL, Will never see the likes of Forest, and Cloughie and Liverpool and Shankly EVER again, with clubs building through the youth teams and rsesrves or the 'lower league teams, chairmen and owners WANT a) to stay in the PL 1ST, B) TOP 10 IF possible, C) EUROPA LEAGUE or a cup win, D) champions league qualification if not win the title.... these can not be done without money, looka t the teams that has won it Blackburn, Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea.... none brought there teams thro apart from Taggart and his 'lucky' year, not even the 'invincibles none of them were British, even Blackburn spent vast sums just like Chelsea and now City and MAYBE even Liverpool, the point being to win the title needs funds and if you dont spend you will not not win it as the past has proved.... it has nothing to do with FFPR or debts or being self sufficient.... so spend or become an also ran.. simples.
cityman51
cityman51, you're half right... "the ENGLISH PL, Will never see the likes of Forest, and Cloughie and Liverpool and Shankly EVER again" - as things stand, no, it won't. That's why football needs to change, and why so many threads end-up banging-on about the Oil billionaires ruining football. Not that it wasn't ruined before, when only United and Arsenal had a chance of winning it with their champions' league money, but I think Chelski and Man Sh1tty have taken that to a new level - buying achievements. I'm hoping against hope that the FFP rules are enforced and effective, and that football can return to being a sport. Which it hasn't been since the PL began.
damiano_tommassi
 

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