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Sagna Sounds Off

Bacary Sagna has sounded the first shots in the old contract negotiation dance in an interview with L'Equipe published this morning. It's a common trick, the old 'give a doubtful sounding interview to a foreign paper to give the club the willies and then if I do end up signing, I can always say the interview was mistranslated' trick.

Sagna questioned the loss of Alex Song this summer, 'Everyone was expecting Robin Van Persie to leave, but Alex Song had three years left on his contract he's 24, that was a surprise. I don't understand that at all. It is a big loss for the club.

'When you see two of the best players from last season leave, you ask a lot of questions. I understand why the supporters are nervous.'

'I am the only starting player left from 2007. In May, I watched City's parade on TV. I saw Samir and Gael lift the trophy. I want that [feeling].'

'In the street, supporters sometimes come to see me. I can understand that they're annoyed. I'm like them - I don't understand everything,' added Sagna.

Now you're all anxious, right? You're a bit annoyed at the club, correct? So you're on his side? Fantastic, now let's talk contracts. (Pay rise).

'For the moment, I want to play with Arsenal, and find my level again.'

When a journalist (conveniently) asked him about his own contract, 'No, nobody (has spoken to me about a new deal).'

Well, they damn well should! Someone sound the panic klaxon! Give that man a pay rise quick! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

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The Journalist

Writer: Tim Stillman Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday September 6 2012

Time: 11:58AM

Your Comments

I think we should avoid all contract talk until the summer. Then when he wont accept our offer we sell him on, fail to replace him and Jenkison will be first choice with Yenaris back up. Of course we then sell one other player too so we can continue our tradition of selling two key players a season. Then as the new season begins Vermaelen, Koscielny or Arteta can start the process again.
Whether the player is just after a payrise or not, we always come across as looking weak and clueless. This does not happen anywhere near as much at Liverpool, Spurs, United, Chelsea or City. Him being the only starting player since 2007 shows how often we have to rebuild. We will never win anything if the team changes so frequently
its no problem, we have jenkinson......errr....sign sagna for longer quick
Can't disagree with anything he's said to be honest. As for the contract talks, don't get me started......
Scotch Eggs Rule
U*d and Chelsea are both in need of a good right back.
Utd also need a good LB, 2 new CM's and a couple of CB's that can stay fit. Your point?
Scotch Eggs Rule
I think you know what my point is.
i am sure someone in this forum will pop up soon to justify that this is the right way the club should be managed... sustainable model... no one deserve pay rise... mercenary has no loyalty... blahblahblah....
How about swapping Bacary for Benoit then? Seems a good punt to me!

IT's all about the timing!!
Bluedub - No, or I wouldn't of asked. I'm not in the habit of wasting my breathe, especially on other clubs fans. We have Chamakh though, if you fancy blowing anotuher 50 million on a s*** striker?
Scotch Eggs Rule
Spuds behave mate, we've already got rid of one ridiculous haircut!
Scotch Eggs Rule
Club were probably simply waiting on him to return from injury before offering a contract - there have been talks of Gibbs and Ox being offered new contracts too. I don't see how anyone can blame the club for not tying down Sagna to an extension considering he still has two years to run - if nothing happens by the end of the season then we can worry.
Then it'd redress the balance then Scotchy mate.

Sorry SER but if you're not in the habit of wasting your breath on other club's fans then why have you responded to both my posts? I think we're alright with the four strikers we have, thank you very much.
Because I didn't consider it "wasting" my breathe, there was a mistake. Are you stupid or just good at playing dumb?
Scotch Eggs Rule
Breathe or breath?
Fingers in ears, its about to kick off!

Lampard and Cole have a year to run at Chelsea, Terry is at the same point as Sagna contract wise. They lost Bosingwa, Kalou and Drogba on frees this summer too. We're not unique in this regard. Two years is a perfectly acceptable time limit to put on renegotiating player contracts. Otherwise you literally have to give them a pay rise every single summer. I take it people would be prepared to pay ticket price rises every single summer to meet the cost?
Little Dutch
City don't look weak and clueless? They paid 50m for Adebayor's services and have paid Tottenham to take him off of them. They're still paying Roque Santa Cruz and Wayne Bridge.
Little Dutch
No, City paid Adebayor off, they didn't pay Tottenham. Weak and clueless champions of England no less.
I don't think chelsea "lost" those players to be fair, and Lampard's about 4 years older isn't he, so not really comparable.
We are paying the price for not winning anything at all. I dont disagree with Arsenals contract position. But players leaving for silverware will not stop unless we win someting. Its a vicious cycle and we need luck to get out of this.
They still didn't get any money for them, they couldn't sell them, which is bad practice for a club either way. Yes bluedub, they are champions, but that doesn't mean they're good with contracts, which is actually the discussion point at hand here. In fact, they're being champions and being bad with contracts are for reasons that are inextricably linked. Could look equally at Welbeck at United who got down to his last year. Rooney got down to two years (same point Sagna's at) before going public on his desire to leave. I just don't really see what else you can do, where contracts are concerned, other than what we're doing. (With the exception of Walcott, which is a barmy situation that has definitely been badly handled for me).
Little Dutch
I meant more from a point of view of players questioning boards decisions, direction, uncertainty of what is going on RVP. Adebayor, Nasri, Sagna, Clichy have all done this. Seems to happen less at the other clubs. Either way the club/wenger often says one thing and does the other. Examples. We will not sell RVP, he is important we will keep him and run down his contract. Then he gets sold. We will certainly look to replace in the defensive midfield area if Song is sold. We sell him and dont replace. We wont keep any players in the final year who wont sign a contract. Theo is still here.
Fullstop wrong place above. Should be between on and RVP.
paul_ownz, well said.
Sajit, nail on the head mate.
Not sure I recall Nasri, Adebayor or Clichy questioning the board? At least not publicly?
Little Dutch
Breathe or breath? Bluedub - Pedant? Pedantic or Pathetic? Your choice sunshine. The day I need cheeky little p**** like you lecturing me on English will be a cold day in hell. F*** off and be pedantic somewhere else, there's a good lad.
Scotch Eggs Rule
I think Sagna's contract runs until 2014 but crucially the protected period runs out at the end of this season which, as with RvP means that the final year, doesn't give Arsenal as much negotiating power as it would do if some protected period of contract remained. But Sagna will be 30 before the end of this season. He should be more concerned whether we'll give him another contract at all. Next summer seems about the right time to move him on.
Sajit - Which players genuinely left for silverware? List them please.....Nasri? RVP? Adebayor? Henry? I'd love to you to let us all know who left for trophies and not a big f*** off wage increase.
Scotch Eggs Rule
Text speak from an English language pedant, oh the irony.
Scotch Eggs Rule
I don't care if his contract is coming to an end or if he is right or wrong about the departures. I just wish they would shut up and stop moaning in the press. These matters should be kept inhouse instead of on the gutter press pages.
You seem a touch tense today, my favourite picnic snack, buddy. Boss chewing your rectum?

They're aired for a good reason. Agents use us as leverage and we oblige like good little pups. Much like van Persie, agents bank on supporters getting panicky and agitated when such things are aired and that in itself helps force the club's hand to bend to a player's demands. It's all part of the game. The Sunday press contained snippets that Arsenal were preparing to offer Sagna a new deal. They clearly planted that info and, coincidentally, Bacary has an interview booked in with a French newspaper days later. It's all part of the spin war.
Little Dutch
Clichy "But it got to a point for me where I didn't want to just challenge for the titles only to be disappointed in the final weeks of the season. I wanted to play for a club that would win them". Nasri "I made the hard choice to come and fight for my place at a big club, where they never settle for second best, and I have proved it correct." Hleb 'Titles are the most important thing,' said the 27-year-old.'You can play very well, perhaps the best ever, but after the career you ask what you have won."To win a title is also the most important thing for me. The clock is ticking but it is simply not happening. I thought I would win two titles but as I said everything went wrong. Adebayor "'I want to win silverware and trophies. That is my ambition.'The team has quality and a manager who knows what he wants.'
I'm not sure that Hleb is the best example to illustrate whatever point you were hoping to make paul - and neither am I sure that the other quotes all from players who have joined City can really be relied upon as a honest illustration of players whose only motivation was to win silverware.
Sagna is one of the last players remaining from Wengerball 3.0 and his vision is warped by all the departures he's witnessed. Our current squad -version 4.0- consists mostly of young lads who progressed through the youth ranks and senior players who view Arsenal as an upgrade from their previous clubs (Ajax, Lille, Montpellier, Werder Bremen, Cologne, Malaga, Everton, Fenerbahce etc). Both groups, despite the age difference, view Arsenal as a place where they can cement their legacy and, as such, are fully committed to the cause. Sagna belongs to a third group. The group that failed to deliver silverware over a 4 year period and essentially used this failure as an excuse to go seek fatter wages elsewhere. The other 3 players remaining from Wengerball 3.0 are either doing the same contract dance as Sagna (Walcott) or, conversely, showing supreme commitment to Arsenal because they feel indebted to Arsene Wenger for his unwavering support through multiple injury-plagued seasons (Rosicky, Diaby). In a way, Rosicky and Diaby effectively belong with the recent senior additions: 26-29 year olds who view the next few years as a now-or-never career defining period. Sagna and Walcott have seen Flamini, Hleb, Adebayor, Cesc, Nasri, Clichy, RVP and Song depart over the years so the agitation on their part is expected, almost understandable. They might make a U-turn if we can win some major silverware this year but I wouldn't be surprised, or saddened, if they were to leave in the summer.
Basically questioning direction of club, their ability to compete. I guess i am just frustrated at 2 big names leaving per summer, others come in for a few years, get good and leave too. Need some stability. Also a a new wage structure needs to be implemented so you dont have scenarios where RVP & fabregas are on 80k and Bedtner, Denilso & squilaci are on 50k.
My point, if not articulated in the best way, is why do we more than any other club seem to have unhappy/disatisfied players and a revolving door for our best players each summer.
To be fair, Sagna will be 30 next year and is naturally, apprehensive and I put this down to the need for a re-assurance that the club will extend his stay, quite against Wenger's well known policy on contracts for 30+ players. Looking at him, though, I feel he still has a good 5 years left in him and deserves the club taking a chance on him with another 4 years contract. He can't be more concerned about the club's desire than the rest of us or the management and is not entitled to such key info as what the club plans to do with players agitating for pay rises or moves to other clubs.
paul_ownz, the insinuation that the over 1000 professional players in the over 85 other clubs that haven't been winning silverware (over the last 7years) lack ambition may not go down well with everyone. Those players left for the money, irrespective of what they said otherwise, they should be moving to United, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Liverpool or remaining at our club, being the clubs with a chance at trophies, having won things in that period. It is easy to pick on Arsenal as the media frenzy has maintained focus on us even though many other clubs are worse off. I feel Banger will stay but only needs the club's guarantees, which has been given, somewhat, with the news item that indicated the club would extend his contract alongside those of Ox and Gibbs.
Suppose it depends on whether you think that was aimed at the board, semantics. Gazidis already said this summer that the wage structure is being changed, but that's an incremental process that happens gradually. Maybe not rushing with a 30 year old who has broken his leg twice in the last ten months is part of that? Maybe not. I guess our issue is that we're in an unenviable position in a lot of ways. We are competing with teams better resourced (not to say we can't use our own better, we most certainly can) and our players are attractive to them. Spurs and Liverpool don't get this so much because they have fewer players capable of playing at this sort of level that these clubs want, other clubs in our domain have enough of the readies to keep players where they are. It's the food chain I guess. Much the same reason we were able to take Everton's best player, Werder Bremen's best defender, Ajax's captain, Montpellier's top scorer etc over recent years.
Little Dutch
At this rate, will we ever have Testimonial games at this club, any time soon?
I dont have an issue with clubs contract negotiation policy but we need to get lucky somehow and have to somehow win something to break this cycle. Previously, we could have gone 17 years without a trophy and still come back to win the PL but the game has changed since. Today , if we are get into a rut, its much harder to get back into the game because of the money in the game and sugar daddies.
The 'food chain' principle is exactly the point I was trying to make and you have made the point much better. Majority of our players left for more money, not just the lure of silverware, maybe with the management "creating" the enabling environment for the moves (for the money too, maybe). Trouble is they feel this need to mouth off about wanting to look back at how many trophies they have won and Arsenal can't give that. We didn't hear such open show of dissent from Arteta, Vermaelen, Rosicky, Mertesacker or Carzola.
SER - Would you agree that Hleb, Cesc, RvP all left for trophies? Infact Arsene had a bigger pay package for RvP ready than what Utd offered. Nasri and Clichy say they went for trophies and the PL title vindicates their choice - though im not convinced that they are telling the truth.
My take on it is this - are they saying "I am going to another club that has a more realistic chance to win trophies? " - or do they really mean " I am NOT staying at this club and having NO CHANCE AT ALL of winning trophies?".....
Sajit - we all know why Cesc left, Hleb I have no clue on and RVP leaves me puzzled, can we honestly say that before he left for them that they had a better team/squad than us?
Getting back to what Sagna said, yeah, we all figured RvP would leave after his 'announcement', but I can understand his confusion about Song. Good player, three years to run on the contract, never to my knowledge agitated for a move away, but we sold him with no fuss or bother. Why? That's a good question. The answer is that we are being run like a shop that sells things on consignment. As soon as somebody meets the reserve price, buh bye. The only reason Song went easily and other transfers were protracted is because Barca came in at the reserve price, maybe even higher - if they'd offered low there would have been a big struggle but they paid what turns out to be a massive profit on what we paid. Arsenal 2012- buy low, sell high, stay in the top four. However, rather than worrying about Arsenal's twisted transfer policy, Sagna should be more worried about getting his job back from the ever-improving Jenkinson.
That wasn't the reason Song was sold at all. Song was agitating for more money and the club, quite reasonably, told him to wait his turn because A) he's not long into a new deal and b) the club had more urgent contract priorities and basically said "get in the queue, we'll get to you." Song started playing up when he was told that. If anything, Barca paid under price. There was almost no haggling in that deal cos Song was effectively shown the door by the club.
Little Dutch
Good take on the whole Arsenal/Barca transfer saga from Tony Attwood.
Spuds-U-Like - All good thanks matey, just don't appreciate condescending little p****s judging my English. If I needed to have it marked, I'd go back to school. As it's a football forum and not an English class, pedants like that need to shut up and get a life. My wedding's on the 29th, only a few weeks to go now! What's happening with you matey?
Scotch Eggs Rule
paul_ownz - Quote who you like, we all know Adebayor, Hleb and Nasri whored themselves around for more money NOT trophies, that was coincidental. If you're naive enough to believe a trio of c***s like Ade and Nasri then don't look up, THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!
Scotch Eggs Rule
Sajit - Cesc left to go home, not trophies in particular, he already said that. Hleb left for more money at Inter, when that fell through he went to Barca. If you believe that RVP joined Utd for trophies not money then you're 100% gullible. There is absolutely no way on earth we had a bigger pay packet ready than what Utd offered, that is absolute rubbish, unless you know something the rest of us don't Sajit?
Scotch Eggs Rule
Selling up & moving onto a boat, Scotch mate, maybe temp or permanent. Not sure which yet, taking a little time to get over the grief of selling house & shutting down business before deciding. Apart from that, feck all really! ;-)

PS, getting a bit fed up with VS & the Spurs reporting in the media ATM, so losing a bit of interest & can't be bothered. Posted on here more often than VS recently! Shame, hope the mojo comes back soon.

Why do we always blame the management and board, do the players like the fans, board and the whole Arsenal family not have a responsibility as well. Tell them to shut up as long as we the fans are paying good money (hard earned too) to ensure their wages are paid.
Really will never understand this delusional, convenient notion gooners insist on--that players don't care about trophies. They don't mind seeing their friends and acquaintances, fellow professionals, in the game lifting those trophies, experiencing the glory and satisfaction of winning the ultimate prize, while they never get to know how that feels. That only if Arsenal could pay 200,000/wk while still not winning trophies, RVP & Flamini et al would still be with us. Esp. hilarious is that some are actually mystified that anyone would view Utd as a likelier trophy winner than us just because they're not the best Utd team ever. As if Ferguson having an unremarkable team has ever been a barrier to him winning a trophy. They lost the league on goal difference, ffs. Any objective observer will tell you a subpar Utd under Ferguson is more likely to win a trophy than a very talented AFC in 2012. Look at their team this season--hardly impressive. Yet I can almost guarantee you they'll still win ahead of us--barring something truly remarkable that would be a big change from the consistency of the last several years. Of course players love big wages, it would be foolish to think otherwise. But to believe that ambitious players like RVP have no problem at all watching former teammates like Nasri & Clichy lifting big trophies while their chance of lifting one at Arsenal still remains highly unlikely after 7 yrs of watching good players come & go and always failing at the big moments like a CC final against Birmingham just beggars belief. So fine-talented ambitious players don't give a damn about winning trophies. Go on believing that if it makes you feel better.
Jaelle, no one has stated that players "don't care about trophies". Of course they do. The problem with sounding off as if that is the ONLY reason is that it belittles the achievements of this club and ignores the potential for winning something, having only last won a major trophy 7 years ago. Pray, what had City won when Adebayor moved? Unless you credit them with a capacity for foretelling tomorrow, did Nasri, Clichy et al really KNOW that City will win anything when they left, only on the strength of an FA cup win?
Speaking about the Carling cup final melt down, I feel the players have to accept their own part (of responsibility) in the failure to win, including RvP who limped off after scoring a goal. The club has had a few near misses and what committed and selfless players should do is roll up their sleeves to make sure such don't happen again; even if they must leave, please do it quietly and quit slagging off your teammates as inadequate. Steven Gerrard is a fine-talented player but has remained with Liverpool, nevertheless, through their period of barren runs and mediocrity. I can count a lot of other players who know the joy is greater to win it with your true teammates.
Naija-c'mon, anyone could've told you City were more likely to win a trophy than AFC were. They won the FA cup after YEARS of winning nothing--that's more than we've won in 7 yrs. Sorry but your argument just strikes me as incredibly naive. OF COURSE City were viewed as more likely to win a trophy--they were on their way up, signed big name players, incl. a Utd player-Tevez. Your argument comes from someone unable to view the situation as a non-AFC supporter. Any objective observer viewed City as a club with huge prospects for a trophy while AFC has been viewed as a club that's not winning trophies, stuck in a trophy drought unlikely to change, with no one but some gooners believing seriously that could change. What do you think it feels like for the players? Constantly being reminded about the trophy drought, being knocked out of competitions season after season, reaching finals against the likes of Birmingham and not winning. You talk about the potential for winning something as if these players still viewed that as a serious possibility. Clearly they didn't. AFC are simply not viewed as potential trophy winners. "did Nasri, Clichy et al really KNOW that City will win anything when they left, only on the strength of an FA cup win?" - no one "KNOWS" which club will win trophies-but players most certainly KNOW which clubs are MORE LIKELY to win trophies. A top class player wanted by big clubs will tell you very very easily which clubs are likely to win the big trophies, or even a domestic cup: and AFC is not on that list.
Not so, Jaelle. What I recall was everyone saying how long it was going to take the City players to gel and start winning. The fact is City had a deeper pocket to pay silly wages and that was a key attraction. If they were so dead certain to win the league and so much so, more certain than Arsenal, we shouldn't be taking 4 points off them season before last and they should be whipping us silly since, but we all agree the games have been close. It was more about the money; trophies came a distant second to some of these fellows otherwise, they would all be streaming to United and Chelsea Only. Heck! Dinamo Zagreb and Galatasaray have a higher chance of winning their leagues and they wont go to those sides to have their personal caninets decorated as much as they like. Like I said, it isn't much of a problem if the players were to leave; it is the way they insist on justifying their decision with a "need for trophies". Nasri's was even the more pathetic as he had barely spent 2 years with a top side in a top league and was already "hungry" for trophies? Puuleeeaaase!

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