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Teams News: Norwich vs Arsenal

No supreme witter banter today as I write from my death-bed suffering from a terminal case of man-flu.

Team to face Norwich:

Arsenal: Mannone, Jenkinson, Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Santos, Arteta, Ramsey, Cazorla, Gervinho, Podolski, Giroud.

Subs: Martinez, Djourou, Coquelin, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arshavin, Gnabry

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The Journalist

Writer: Rocky7 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Saturday October 20 2012

Time: 4:56PM

Your Comments

3 points is a must today after all the teams who matter won their matches. Come on boys!
..... and Rocky the only cure is 3points today
Well, a winnable game, always. Good luck to the lads!
I expect Santos' side will be a preferred route today as the Canaries will want to test him.
We're lucky the game stayed 1-0 because we've still got a chance, but there has to be a massive improvement. Knowing Wenger, he won't change things until the 70th minute. We don't really seem to play to Giroud's strength. Gervinho won't put a decent cross in, he always wants to get to the byline right near the goal.
To be fair to Mannone, I think the ball has swerved and that caused him to parry the ball in and not away. Goalies are taught that as standard and there's no way he was trying to do anything else. We needed to close down the guy shooting. I know the ESPN team has said this at half-time, but we are also over-reliant on Cazorla. Or put another way, our other players need to step up their performance.
Gervinho is one of the marked men along with Cazorla, thus isolating Giroud. They are pressing the midfield and squeezing play, just as Chelsea did against us. Our quality and fitness will become important in the 2nd half. We shd get thruogh this well; the right changes will be the Ox for Gervinho and Arshavin for Poldi, if this remains at 1-0 for longer than 15mins into the 2nd half. Or, take off Giroud and Gervinho plays the striker role.
Has the Norwich keeper made any significant save, so far?
Can't recall a worse performance. Giroud has been poor. Any pretensions we had of actually winning the league are well and truly buried. Top 3 is already decided; we're playing for 4th. Can't help but feel despondent about that. So early in the season too. Did you see how much energy the Chaves played with even after the international break? Contrast that with this. Squad is not good enough. Already Diaby is out and you just can't rely on him anyway. Then what? Ramsey? He is not a top-class PL player I'm afraid. Neither is Gervinho.
We played against a more energetic side with a greater hunger to get its first win. The problem is that we are unable to put a bottom team like Norwich under any pressure. You kept waiting for the well known Arsenal onslaught; it just never came. That factor is what we need to investigate and resolve. For me, this loss will affect confidence as it sets us back, further away from the top. Poor performance; and the internationals cannot be used as an excuse.
Hate to admit it but I felt we missed the penetrating runs of Theo Walcott today. Poldi must have been told he needed to be more defensive today as I only recall one run into the box he made early in the game, for a shot across goal. The spirit that used to be evident in the team was absent with no one willing to take responsibility. It is going to be one loooong season.
Naija - i don't think it was about individuals today. It was a poor collective performance which I am still finding it hard to comprehend. Was it complacency? Did the team sub-conciously think this is a struggling Norwich side that if we just turn up and strut our stuff we'll win? Perhaps teams have just figured out that if you stop Santi you stop Arsenal. For me, we're in the same territory as when we were relying on Cesc and then RvP. The like of Gervinho and Ramsey are not really top-class performers; we're too reliant on Santi to produce everything. Anyway, it's not as though we're out of the title race; we were never truly in it.
Agree, but individuals make the team; I did refer to a lack of that "team spirit" we noticed early in the season when we had a back-to-the-wall disposition to each game. Most fans were complacent so could that have rubbed off on the players? I'll think that the Manager has that task of ensuring the players have their feet on the ground, irrespective of the opposition, especially after the exertions of the Internationals.
Bollogs. That result sent my accumulator right up in smoke.
When you give away the first goal in games like this, you give yourself a huge problem. After Mannone's ricket, all a side like Norwich has to do is not make a mistake, play everything with a straight bat and it becomes very difficult to break them down. Had it stayed 0-0 into the second half, I think we'd have found a way to win the game, even with the quite uninspiring attacking we did today.
Little Dutch
Arteta and the defence did ok but they barely had anything to do. As LD says once you give a goal away to a team like Norwich it's very difficult to create chances as they will just defend for their life with 10 men behind the ball. We really needed to get better crosses in and more men in the box. Our front 3 of Giroud, Podolski and Gervinho all lacked ideas and didn't link up well. Cazorla didn't find much space and his passing wasn't as good as usual. We didn't have many attacking options with Diaby, Walcott and Rosicky still injured. Unlucky that the Ox got injured so soon after coming on as well. Let's hope we improve for Wednesday against Schalke who have just beaten Dortmund away this weekend and will be high on confidence.
If we were being totally honest it was Norwich who looked more likely to score when they attacked than us. Every one of their players had been briefed to do a job and they stuck to the script. They made the most of our reluctance to go around the sides and simply crowded out our creative midfield (i exclude Ramsey from that description), closed down every ball and cut off the angles. Its a tactic that's worked against us before and will no doubt do so again. You have to give some credit to Chris Houghton.
Wyn Mills
Norwich looked likely on the break, that was the situation though, we had to commit bodies forward to score. But I have little or no truck with blaming our midfield, Ramsey's picking up some stick, but when you see yesterday's game laid out in front of you, you see the front 3 were so static it was unreal. Ramsey, Cazorla aetc had little or nothing to aim for. There was an incident in the 2nd half when Ramsey won the ball at right back, he powered forward to break and Gervinho and Giroud just stood still even though they had a bit of space for the first time in the game. Ramsey had nowhere to pass, was forced to check back and lost the ball. Everyone had a pop at him for that, but it was totally not his fault.
Little Dutch
Yeah I remember that, agreed wasn't totally Ramsey's fault. Yeterday was abysmal, all of it, both the players on the pitch and Wenger's complete inaction - i'd like to know how he thought we'd score a goal with that team after giving them another 10 minutes in the 2nd half. That team really, really, could've done with some "in game" management. And just a side point, who's on the injury table.. Gibbs, Diaby & Rosicky. Sound familiar??
I agree that going down against a side like Norwich is going to play into their hands, but a club that has any pretensions about winning the league have to be able to cope with things like that. What's extremely worrying is that we couldn't muster hardly any chances. When we're faced with 10 men behind the ball, as all the top teams are, then you either need the quality of player or tactics to be able to crack this open. We've got a 6ft4in forward that's a handful in the air, yet we hardly get any crosses in - or try to get into positions to put in lots of crosses. The ball often gets kicked high to Giroud but noone is gambling on him winning the ball. Late in the game yesterday I saw 3-4 of our players all near to each other but noone actually trying to make intelligent forward runs. To my mind, we missed a trick not buying another centre-forward of real quality or another creative forward player. We can still win our realistic target of 4th place, but I can see it being under threat this season. It's just sad that we're already out of it after 9 games having started so encouragingly.
You just feel we need to have our key subs back to match-sharpness. The likes of Arshavin, Santos, Djourou and even Chamakh look like we could be needing them anytime soon, the way the injury curse strikes at this club. Arshavin can prove useful in situations as yesterday but you could see he lacked confidence and wasn't match fit. More games in the reserves (the domestic Cups too) and short run-outs in the league games are a must for this lot now. There's still a lot of games to go yet and the January window offers an opportunity to cover some areas of concern.
January? We'd have to sell before we can buy, as is clearly the case. So who'd we be able to move on? Not a lot i'd wager
I fear its over for Arsenal for the Prem title for as long as AW remains now. things have now got too stale and the inertia will take some shifting that only a strong new broom will prevail.... the players are here, the depth is here, but collectively there is something very missing and there is a hollowness to your intensity, ability to overwhelm the final-third and belief to play with abandon and accept a degree of chaos in order to go for the jugular and come back in games.... the likes of Utd and now Citeh have that ability to flip a switch and go all-in when behind cos of the BELIEF that come the 93rd minute, they will prevail... no spending-spree will change this stale mindset now until the inevitable now happens with AW and the club... 5th.
We can probably rely on Tottenham to eff up, we'll probably scrape 4th, that'll be Wenger's job done and he'll continue to be a genius with a job for life.
Not sure the players or depth really are there vivyash. Did you see our bench yesterday? No strikers on it and we don't even have any strikers injured at the moment.
Little Dutch
That was a shockingly poor performance all round. Not sure I can single out one person (Manone made a mistake but I'm not sure it was a huge error - he seemed to get back up too slowly and did not close out the angle, but the defence also did not close down the shot, or the rebound). The usual targets (like Ramsey or Manone) will be called out as having poor games, but that will be off the mark. I don't remember seeing such a flat performance for a long long time - I lost all hope of an equaliser after the 50th minute, and this normally does not happen with Arsenal games. At least, a comeback effort is made.
Sweet Jesus... We looked fantastic a fortnight ago, and then one third-choice-keeper-balls-up, and suddenly "I fear its over for Arsenal for the Prem title for as long as AW remains". Calm down ladies!
It's not just that Tommasi, it's the same performance that has been replicated far too many times over the years, it's apparent that nothing's really got any better, has it? What were your thoughts on Saturday? Just plain unlucky?
Yes, over the past few years we have - on many occasions - conceded a poor goal and then seen the opposition line all of their players up on the edge of their own box for the rest of the game; sometimes we come up with that special something to break them down, sometimes we have a bit of luck and nick a goal; and sometimes the opponents have their day. Do international games make a difference? Well, if it were the case that ten of the Arsenal starting eleven had played internationals and 2 only Norwich players, that would put them at a slight physical advantage that would explain a lack of sharpness. So 'just plain unlucky' - no, not as simple as that. But if the two clubs were to play that game ten times, Arsenal would win the other nine of them - so you could argue luck plays a part. I think the goalie cost us, to be honest; as LD said, you concede that goal, the opponents retreat and hit us on the break.

My comment was more about the fact that a few weeks ago everyone was an optomist; one bad game later, we're finishing fifth and definitely out of the race. 10 points behind, and ONLY 30 games to play! Way to keep the faith, fellas. Let's hope that infectious confidence transmits its way onto the field of play, eh.
'a few weeks ago' you had 2 goalless draws, a win and a defeat wudda been better pts-wise... you then scored 1st at a weak Liverpool and coasted the game followed by a win against the kamikaze Saints who will go down most likely.... even against Wet Spam I could see that you'd struggle once the 1st goal is conceded and you managed to score 2 without the usual intensity needed in most games away to come back in a game.... the game is up now, and without Diaby now you will struggle to find the right balance as well as develop that cyclone-intensity to overwhelm smaller park-the-bus teams... Spurs will get better now that the Chavs win enables Lloris to come in and the likes of Dembele, Bale and Adebayor start most games... as well as Ekotto back at LB allowing to bench the ageing Gallas finally.
Yeah, we started with two goalless draws, and the entire media talked about how wonderful Arsenal's defence was, and how Steve Bould had made that happen. We beat Liverpool and 'coasted' (which means 'won easily', doesn't it?). We beat Southampton. Conceded the first goal at Wet Sham and still won. We were unlucky to be on the losing side at Chelsea. All good eh?

Oh, wait - so now we've lost ONE GAME to Norwich, and Diaby is out injured, that's all out the window? 'The game is up'?

Not sure Spuds were the topic of discussion... shipping 4 goals to Chelsea isn't pretty though, is it; and given we lost 2-1 (and were arguably the better team - other opinions may differ), surely your lot should be twice as worried as Arsenal?
We weren't really unlucky to lose against Chelsea, appalling defending is not bad luck. We could've played that game for 9000 minutes on Saturday, we still wouldn't have scored, it was an absolutely abysmal performance. One of the worst i've seen in the flesh for a long time.
Viyyash comes on here to spout the usual Spud "this is our season...and Arsenal's downfall" sentiment, just to make himself feel good. I will not make much of much of his posts; you have to recall Spurs couldn't beat Norwich at their home ground, a game in which the away side were the better team. All the talk of Spurs getting better with their returning players assumes there will be no further injuries to the squad, which is very unlikely. All of a sudden, Diaby has become the 'champion' of the Arsenal cause, right? Losing to Norwich was disappointing, but it is not a debacle we cannot recover from.
The game at Carrow road was a strange one, with most fans (but the most cautious) giving the 3 points to Arsenal as if all we needed to do was turn up and victory was to be ours. The players may have developed the same level of (over-)confidence resulting in some complacency in preparing for the game; one would think the coaching staff should be drumming it into the players' heads that you need to be well prepared for every game at this level and eschew complacency in any form. Norwich had a lot more time to prepare well for the game, no doubt about that, but this is where Quality comes into play. We just didn't do enough or weren't allowed to do enough to come back. For instance, we may have been a little more dangerous with Walcott in the team or if we played to Giroud's strengths by playing in a lot more crosses. These just weren't coming and it is so disappointing to think no one else could make those calls. Maybe, a lack of the right personnel?
my opinion of Arsenal's lack of intensity to come back from losing positions was aired well before the Norwich game. I said that you lacked the needed intensity to overwhelm teams even if thu fortune you manage to score goals andretrieve games.... isolated games here or there will not tell the true tale, after watching the team over 20% of the season you get a sense of their potential to overcome 1st goal conceded, and Arsenal have the least potential to do so (esp. without Diaby) outta the top 6-7 teams.. you lack the ability to bombard and overwhelm teams (when losing)... abit too composed, abit too prim and proper 'after you sir, no after you'.... and lets not discount the overkill of Cazorla by everyone and his dog recently, and the effect that has on other players who can become less engaged and lack drive when alll the laudits go to just 1 player: Liverpoo had that 1st with Gerrard, then Torres and now Suarez. other players simply switch off and feel under-valued.... 5th.
You could be right, Viyyash, but no one knows much about anything, this early with another 90 points to play for. We did show intensity to overhaul the spuds at 0-2 (to 5-2) last season, didn't we? Oh! I see. Your assessment is only about this season? So, how much intensity has your side shown going down to the Chavs?
This performance was not down to over-confidence - that could possible explain that 1st half. However, after conceding the 1st goal, during the entire 2nd half, the team could not have been over-confident. Need to look for other reasons.
Interesting Viyyash. I though Arsenal's record at recovering points from a losing position was very good... And again, you're suggesting that 'without Diaby' we aren't as good a side. We have many good midfielders at Diaby's level, and he wasn't much of an influence last year when we finished third. You're lauding Abou, who has hgad a couple of good games in the last two years, but at the same time suggesting that people shouldn't wet their knickers over Cazorla because he's not all that. When you say that Arsenal can't bombard teams and are prim and proper; do you mean 'they don't toss 50-50 balls into the box'? Agreed. But we did control the ball for 3/4s of the game and have twice as many shots as the opposition. if it's not your day and the ball doesn't go in, that's life. It doesn't mean you need to replace the manager, 8 first-team players, and sack the groundsman. This one poor performance aside, I think that the team has performed well this season.
LOL, you did show intensity when 2-0 down cos by then you had to throw in the kitchen-sink and had nowt to lose, not the same as 1-0 is it when you still have that fear of conceding to a 2-goal margin... and thats me humouring you after yet another isolated game quoted by you(s) and didnt Spurs win from 0-2 down a season earlier at your place ?.... you need to develop a sense of the team that only reviewing over the last 6-7 games can give, despite 'illusions' like the Wet Spam comeback.... overall, esp. without Diaby, the team lacks steel and certainly drive when losing. . better hope for another Spuds collapse in April, maybe Woy will be gone by then and AVB will be in the frame...
..... Tommassi... you mistake possession for control of the game, the other team were happy to let you have in the safe areas of the pitch, knowing you lack the bottle somewhat to go hell for leather and add intensity to your undoubted quality... but then its easy to show quality possession when you create very little in goal-chances, its marrying the 2 together thats the tricky bit.
Viyyash, I think you misunderstand being 'happy' to let the opposition have the ball and fearful of being torn apart by that other side. For many years now, it has been standard for all but 4/5 teams in the league to play a 10-0-1 formation against us. Arsenal attack whether they're a goal down or a goal up. Sometimes it's a little annoying if I'm honest; especially when we're a goal up and Vermaelen keeps streaming forward on the attack!

"without Diaby, the team lacks steel and certainly drive when losing" - interesting insight; but have you ever seen Diaby inspire the Arsenal to a comeback? Or never seen Arsenal make a comeback without him? Bearing in mind that we beat West Ham this month, having conceded first - without him. It just sounds like your opinions are not based on any facts.
my opinion is based on viewing the team over the last 2-3 months now. you and others are very accurate and quote well examples that seem to indicate that Arsenal are excellent at changing gear and force comebacks... I try to read between the lines abit more, and its my thought that there's a collective lack of oomph when a goal down and it will be AW's undoing when you finish outside the Top4 this season.... its not down to lack of skill, quality, depth, its something more subtle... you need to be 'uglier' and more 'mascular' , less refined and studied as it gives opponents time to react and ready for the next predictable point of attack.
Do you bother to "proof read" your thoughts before you engage your key board? When 1 goal down, you cannot show intensity then all of a sudden, you show intensity because you are now 2 down. What gibberish! Your opinions are clearly without any reasoned basis but just thrown up in the hope that it fits into some self-determined pattern. When reminded of how we came back to spank you last season, you go two seasons back to bring up a game where you came back (like, how far back can you really play that game, because Arsenal has had more of such occasions vs Spurs?), yet your stats were drawn from observing us for 2-3 months, after 8 games of a 38 games league. Very funny.
Since Diaby is your personal Arsenal hero, need I remind you, he is still an Arsenal player and will be back. Hope you will be pleased with our side then.
Naija... you obviously cannot differentiate the mindsets involved between being 1 goal down and being 2 down. its okay, cos it will carry on numbing the pain for you... you spanked us good last season, so what ?... it was a fluke like any 0-2 to 5-2 scoreline would be in any league on the planet. the fact that you constantly refer to this as your 'security blanket' speaks volumes.... every team gets beaten, we beat you too, so what ?.... Diaby is your most important player now as he is the one that allows you to capitalise when Cazorla drags his marker away. you will carry on feeling his loss til he's back... I'd like a full-strength Arse team out soon as then there wont be any comeback when you finish 5th..
You've said a million times V-R that you think Arsenal will finish fifth and you will finish above us. Why do you feel the need to keep repeating it here apart from it being a pathetic attempt at trolling. As for us making excuses if we finish fifth, that's rich coming from you considering the list of excuses you gave for us overtaking you last season. The table doesn't lie at the end of the season, we've been better than you every season for nearly 20 years (often by quite a large margin) and it isn't going to change any time soon. I'd wait until the end of the season before making any claims of superiority, everyone has already noted your predictions.
Viyvash, no team gained more points from losing positions last season than Arsenal. By quite some distance too. We already have four from losing positions this season which, considering we've conceded 6 goals, isn't bad going. Arsenal have weaknesses worth discussing, but the ones you offer don't stack up at all.
Little Dutch
I am sure Damiano did make that point somewhere in his posts but the troll has just ignored it. All he's been doing is coming on here to play "wind up" . It's a long season and we all know we shall celebrate St. Totteringham Day, same period, next year.
We know St. Totteringham's day will come. Heck! We can start celebrating it in instalments till the day comes.
Oooh, I forgot about St. Totteringham's day... that should be a good one this year!
LOL its good that you can solace in the midst of going out in a whimper.. I think you should celebrate St Totteringham Day each and every day in installments, heck why not even borrow from next yr's bounty, it'll make you feel sooo much better... should be interesting the way he season pans out, do you think Arsenal will be ahead of Spuds by Xmas then, cos I don't think thats happening
Viyyash why not reply to direct points made to counter your inane ramblings?
In answer to "do you think Arsenal will be ahead of Spuds by Xmas then", yes; although I'm more interested in being ahead of them at the end of the season, when it matters. After all, Everton are fourth at the minute, and WBA sixth; I can't imagine they'll finish the league in those positions. We do have 30 games still to play, of course. And haven't finished below Spuds since the Mesozoic era.
and its also good that the past can be a panacea for the here and now. theres a v.good reason why Arse (bar last season) were streets ahead of Spuds: its cos they deserved to be.. I'm hoping the past will continue to numb your pain, as I feel Arse have plateaued now under AW, you can go buy 1-2 shiny objects in Jan. if you like,to delude yourselves and even Usmanov, it won't do much good tho' cos they won't help the stale mindset and might even damage it further...hey, maybe that Cazorla will ride to the rescue, after all he is quite the famous chappie now..
Viyyash why not reply to direct points made to counter your inane ramblings?
direct points of any view can be fleshed out by selective picking of individual examples here and there... I prefer to take in all info and see the truth which can often be hidden by short-term illusory effects eg. Wet Spam comeback.... sadly, I think this yr's title hopes have already faded. 10pts is not a huge gap, but you have 3 top teams at least 6pts ahead, so whilst you may have hope to overtake 1 even 2, not all 3 will dip their form to accommodate you... and I think you will struggle to get Top4, simply cos of the mounting pressure on AW who will dig in heels even further and not change 'his way'.so more prim, prissy football that will win matches here and there when you score 1st.... but not much else.
Viyyash. Are you TRH in disguise?
You don't even have to answer, 'cos it doesn't make a difference!
"more prim, prissy football that will win matches here and there"... and league titles, don't forget those. We won those with this manager, playing his players, in his formation etc. Although clearly we're behind Spuds; it's been about 8 years since we won one of those, which is a very long time. Spurs though, they've won it for the last ten consecutive seasons. Oh, no, wait; they haven't, have they. They've not won it since 1961, have they? 51 years ago? I'm not sure, I googled it, so it may be wrong. I don't remember them winning it in my lifetime though, so sounds about right.
LOL... good good, thats the way Tommassi...its important to keep that comparison of the past in mind tween Arsenal and Spuds.. Arse were never prim and prissy with likes of Vieira et al, it was precision delivered with pace and power and great it was too.... Now, you have a flaccid mindset that forces an 'after you sir' approach to personal responsibility, allied to the disengagement of players mindful of Cazorla FC (like Persie Rovers last season, but worse).... it'll be entertaining to see AW deal with the mounting pressure from the fanbase and redtop Media 'experts'.... staleness can be very difficult to pinpoint and overcome..
I get bored of it, although if you find it entertaining that's lovely. Every year, the 'experts' you mention say that we'll finish 6th this year, because Newcastle/Spurs/Liverpool/Everton (take your pick) look so much stronger this year, and 'Arsene doesn't spend enough money'; then they spend six months denying the fact that Arsenal are at the top of the league. Then gloss over the fact that we finish in the top 4 (3rd last season, no?) AGAIN, and they're wrong, AGAIN. Thing is, like Spuds fans, they never learn; the next year the're saying 'Arsenal to finish 6th', and the Spuds say 'we'll finish above you now we have Jol/Ramos/'arry/Boas; power shift'; blah blah...
.... and I've always been glad that the AW strategy of development over chequebook has proved the detractors wrong time and again... but this time, it just feels different somehow.. from a Football perspective it'll be interesting how AW tackles this hollowness of collective belief when trailing.... how do yous think AW can galvanise the team, is it a question of more bodies in the box sooner and a higher tempo, or yet more personnel changes ?
Not sure; for me, the question is 'how do you win league titles when almost all of your opponents, including some of the 'big' clubs, stick ten men on the edge of their box?'. More than satisfied with the playing staff, coaching staff etc. But you might well want to ask the 19 clubs that finished behind Arsenal - again, almost exclusively - what they plan to do to catch up with us...
all top teams come up against park-bus sides, certainly the Manc clubs do even more than Arse....yesterday Utd was a prime example of how to raise intensity and bombard the opponent when behind, they knew that Braga would not want to attack and gambled on 4 forwards that are equally adept in the box as strikers, they then raised the tempo and created HALF-CHANCES that can develop into proper quality goal-plays.... thats where Arse fall down: always too prim and composed and relying too much on creating the painless perfect chance to score, which come too rarely.... watch and learn.
Whether the Mancs face it more often is a matter of opinion, I suppose. It sounds like your answer to getting more goals is simply 'Arsenal should throw more balls into the box and see what happens'. If that's what you mean, then I'd agree we don't do much of it, and disagree that we need to do it more. it only looks "too prim and composed" when you don't get a goal. Equally, tossing the ball forwards only appears to have created "proper quality goal-plays" (odd phrase, by the way!) when it comes off; when it doesn't, you look like Stoke.
its always a fine balance to attain.... it boils down to this: Utd are willing to go well into the pain-barrier to get a goal under pressure of losing, Arsenal are not and will only attempt to score from clear-cut, neat, psychologically 'painless' opportunities
That's your opinion? Okay. I think it's bobbins myself, but you're welcome to it. I think that's born of this perception that being 'brave' and playing a 'man's game' means kicking people, bullying people, seeing how much you can get away with etc. For me, it's braver to try to do the right thing - the 5-yard pass to someone in a better position - when a stadium is screaming 'SHOOT!'. Are you able to demonstrate any examples of where Arsenal would have scored if they had gone 'into the pain barrier'? For the life of me, I can't think of one, ever.
Viyyash, why not take your counsel to the VS site as I am sure your side needs this lecture on how to attain "manhood" in club football, Viyyash style. If you paid attention, you will have heard it said that the Mancs joined Arsenal, last night as the only other club to come from 2 goals down and get a result in CL soccer. Not a feat to be scoffed at as we have done so twice, as the commentary went (have to look the games up).

Be honest, Viyyash, you like it more on this site, right, seeing as you hardly post much on the VS site (had to take a rare peep there to see how actively involved you are). I take it you like the attention you get here and revel in it. No problem; we will be nice to you but don't push it.
Tommassi... I dont mean what you say at all. if you watched the Utd game in the 2nd half after they went to a flat 4 in midfield and played 2 strikers, they compressed the game into Braga's half and kept them under severe pressure by high-tempo movement on and off the ball, delivering the ball into dangerous areas and feeding off the chaos these situations bring.... Arse tend to pass the ball around and are less prone to roll the dice by playing a ball unless the result appears more certain.... they gamble less than Utd when they odds are in their favour (which any gambler will tell you is the wrong thing to do)
I just don't think that's true, Viyyash. We play three forwards, in every game, from start to finish; we compress the game to the edge of the opponents box, usually for 75% of the game like at Norwich; we pass and move quickly, moving off the ball. You paint a picture of the Arsenal stood still, playing two yard passes to each other. As for gambling - our captain, central defender Thomas Vermaelen, spends half of the game streaming forward! Even when we're a goal up!
Vermaelen is not a professional-gambler, he's a housewife-punter.... 3 forwards yes, but really its 2 wide-middies and a centre-forward masquerading as 3 strikers... fullbacks engage the wideys, both CBs take the centre-forward and the DM sticks like glue to Santi = sorted... when you play 2 proper strikers like Utd do when behind who can engage/occupy all 4 of the backline with runs out wide then back in, it means their wideys can be unmarked as 2 occupy 4.... you do the maths from therein.
Mate, we get our full-backs forward in open play, a centre back whenever he gets bored, a striker, Theo, podolski, Arshavin and Gervinho (all forwards) play the 'wing' position - or 'wing-forward' if you will; and of our central midfielders, the most defensive is Arteta - you know, the guy that was Everton's attacking midfielder for 7-odd years. Basically, we play as attacking a game as anyone - arguably more than anyone. I'd be shocked if, in all honesty, you couldn't agree with that.
1) you won't play all hose name together (2) the wideys do not play on the backline cos you have 1 DM and Cazorla apparently in 'the hole' meaning the wideys are really wide-middies and not forwards, otherwise you'd get totally outnumbered in the middle 93) Arteta plays mainly a screening role now, his Everton role is irrelevant... the truth is Cazorla being 'free' inhibits the wideys being true forwards.

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