Team News: Arsenal vs West Brom

Fantastic penalty from Arteta, bit lucky to get it tho but it's not like we've had the rub of the green often this season.

We are due some change for refs anyway, but there was hardly contact on Santi there.

Will like to see Giroud take more chances for the crosses by taking positions at the near post. That's about the 3rd time we have been in a position to play the ball in from the flanks with no one running in for the pass.

hopefully the ref DOESN'T see a replay of the penalty.... that Reid is an animal, straight red surely.

Arsenal fans cannot not say anything about Bale, that dive by Cazorla was worse than any Bale dive

We have been the better team, so far. I do hope we can sustain the pressure and the pressing in midfield; hopefully, we get a 2nd early enough and just shut Dow the hatches. Also look forward to seeing Rosicky and Poldi come in to make an impact.

Naija ole bean.... was the clutching of the leg by Cazorla and rolling on the pitch alsso due to some delayed effect of whiplash from the air-shot of Reid ??.... you really are becoming the new Liverpool after all lol..

but I'm an Arse fan deep down bowie.... weally.

Another stonewall penalty (",)

What does it matter if a player dives in the for a penalty or for a free kick? A dive is a dive. Though Bale admitting he does it to get other players sent off makes him the worst kind of cheat.

This V-R meathead is getting tiresome. The three points were well deserved, we were all over them and I think it all happened in midfield. Wilshere was looks close to his best again and Ox had an extra spring in his step. Cazorla looked better with a bit of rest, maybe we can rest him more over the holiday programme with Rosicky back. Anyway, a lively start on the road back, just have to keep building on it and add a lethal poacher to give Giroud a hand up front.

Just shows you what a little bit of freshness can do to a good side. Wenger needs to do a lot of rotating, as much as we can get away with and still have a strong team, especially as we head into the fixture glut that characterises December. Rosicky should get more than 45 mins against Bradford same with the Ox who needs games. We must keep up a run to restore confidence.

Ouch!

Good win, lucky with the 1st pen, but these are desperate times, so we'll take it. The team was much better today, creating some good chances, although I was puzzled by West Brom's approach - very defensive, didn't look they wanted to win, hardly created anything. Gervinho is a frustrating player, gets into good positions, but cannot finish. 3 pts, clean sheet.

Great game. Finishing could have been a lot better, but there was so much more creativity than against Swansea as well as much more aggression and determination. Wilshere was so exciting to watch, beating two or three players time and time again. Even since last week, his passing has improved in leaps and bounds. The whole team performance was unrecognisable from last week. We just need to go on a run of a few wins as the start of a 10-12 match unbeaten run (including the COC matches, please, please, Arsenal) and then we'll be all set. Re the penalty, I was at the game, I got back about an hour ago, and it has come as a surprise to me that there was any debate about the penalty! Regardless of what you think of the ref's decision, please don't let them start an Eduardo-style witchhunt.

Ah now I see. VR and his flock of sheep had bought into the TV commentary for Cazorla's penalty which somehow managed to move from 'not much contact' to 'no contact'. There wasn't 'much' contact in many of the fouls awarded against Arsenal outside the area for that matter. But contact there was and a foul it was.

*at the ground this season

Ive seen enough dodgy free kicks and penalties go against us not to give a rats arse about wheter it was a pen or not. The ref gave it. End of. Move on. I just find all the media hoo ha surrounding the incident totally pathetic. As if this is the first time a soft penalty has been awarded. If it was Gerrard going down like that he would be applauded for showing some match guile and 'winning' his team a spot kick. But of course Rooney and the ret of the engerland lads never cheat, do they?

That's pretty much how I feel to Wyn. It's not as though there was no justification at all for giving the pen., and we've had our share of questionable calls given against us.

The contact doesn't have to be sufficient to bring a player down for it to be a foul. The contact has to be enough to unfairly affect the players ability to retain control of the ball. Not every foul is a two footed studs up challenge or ends up with the player on the floor. The vast majority are anything but. I'd accept that Cazorla may or may not have been able to do more to stay on his feet but in doing so he would still have been deliberately and intentionally deprived of the opportunity to retain control of the ball. Reid was trying to kick something and it wasn't the ball. How successful he was can be challenged but with no more certainty either way. This was the substance of Uefa's attempt to crucify Eduardo a few seasons back. Eduardo's looked and probably was more of a dive than Cazorla's which was the media stance backed up by Uefa who retrospectively added a 2 game ban despite the referee's insistence that he'd got it right. It was only when the incident was examined forensically that it became clear enough that there was enough cause for effect for cause and effect to be justified. But as with Eduardo the media stance has been pretty well set in stone already and now pointing out the same cause and effect is a bit like trying to drink from a fire hose.

Not over analysis - over simplification is at fault here. Reid's intention was clear enough even if he changed his mind part of the way through it. He still made contact even if its impact was lessened by a combination of his change of mind and Cazorla trying to get his leg out of harms way. We can feel fortunate to have been awarded the penalty or unfortunate if it had been denied. Yet most of the portrayal is that only one conclusion is justified. That's nonsense. No one can be certain that it wasn't a penalty any more than they can be certain that it was. Which was what Wenger said after the game. It's totally correct too.

For RvP it was the right decision. There's no real chance that we can win the title in the next two or three seasons which for the most part is really all that is left of his career. It's a shame but it should get progressively easier to avoid such situations over the coming years.

Fwiw, I think it was a foul, but a player can go down without it being a foul or a dive. @ shewore - Arsene did not say it was a dive. He said that Cazorla had assured him that there was contact and that he lost his balance. He said sorry if it wasn't a penalty, ie if the ref got it wrong. Do you have quotes where he says Cazorla dived?

no sorry, that's what i was referring to, implying that it was a dive. So out of interest, when Van Nistelrooy got Vieira sent off, when all he did was kick fresh air, would that've been a penalty had it happened in the box?

'i am sorry if it was not a penalty' - seems to imply to me that he reckons it might not've been a penalty. That's right about the potential you're talking about amos, potential is exactly just that. I think Wilshere one day could get there sooner rather than later if he takes responsibility and starts scoring. But even with those teams, when all these players joined us (apart from maybe Bergkamp) we had genuine world class players in the team already, right now, we don't.

If the ref thought Vieira's was a foul and it happened in the box then yes it would've been a penalty. But the point with Reid's foul is that he may well have made contact. Only he or Cazorla will know for sure. So Cazorla isn't world class then? How many would've thought Mertesacker was a world class defender when we signed him? Or maybe considered Poldolski a world class player? You seem to suggest that we can consider Sagna as world class (he played well yesterday) but perhaps, in the interests of simplification, it's easier to claim we don't have any at all.

The only reason I pointed it out was because you asked the question! So a few weeks back Cazorla was a £30m player in your eyes but now isn't world class? As for the invincibles personally I think if that's all it takes to make Lehmann world class then Szczesny must be too.

Shewore, what exactly, makes a world class player, in your informed opinion? Sometimes, class is derived from team work and performance while in other cases, the class performer can drag his team along to glory. It looks to me like you would be changing your mind about a few of those players whom you have today, stated aren't world class, should the team win a major trophy. Sometimes, a successful season can bring out the best in players and make them look like class. Jack already looks world class; Podolski and Per are class players; Cazorla is certainly, a world class player, while barring his injury blight. Diaby is a class player.

Was slightly disappointed to see Giroud trying to muscle Arteta out of the second penalty. Arteta's our penalty taker and has been the assigned taker for his last three clubs, he's just scored one earlier in the game too. Putting pressure on him like that was unnecessary. If Giroud was so concerned about scoring a goal, maybe he should reflect on the fact that he's playing centre forward. It was a rare show of poor team spirit from Giroud.

@Dutch. Was a bit nervous with the first penalty and I think Arteta was as well. So he took the safest route - knock it down the middle, there's always the probability that the keeper will dive to the side. I think Giroud just needed to get on the scoresheet, given his recent barrenness in front of goal. I agree however that he shouldn't have contested to take the second. There was enough pressure on Arteta already.

apologies for the rogue apostrophe, poor form.

Yep, you're right, I did say that in my first comment - that was stretching it a bit. I apologise. I do still think/know it was a dive though, i've seen no contact at all. At the time i thought it wasn't that bad, but on the replays it's worse. I'm not criticising the ref at all, i'm not even criticising Cazorla really, I couldn't really give a flying one, but you won't change my mind that it was a dive. If that was Gerrard doing that against us, or Bale, i'd be going mental.

Now, that's just the point. Right there d_t. Cazorla is first not English and next an Arsenal player. I am not sure if to feel scandalized or just proud that our club is being held to higher standards of behaviour. Probably, the latter.