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Wenger & Gallas Disagree

William Gallas claims that winning is everything, even if the price is our pretty football.

Arsene Wenger has never deviated from his philosophies regarding the style of football his team plays, he has, and will always maintain that he and he players have a responsibility to the fans to entertain.

William Gallas has spoken out, not in defiance of Arsene Wenger, but truthfully and honestly about how he feels as a player.

He wants to win.

'To play pretty football is good for fans to watch. However, I'm sorry, I prefer to hear 'Well done, you won' than when someone says 'You were unlucky, you played well'. said Billy

'Winning is everything. You have to win.'

Both philosophies have their merits and indeed their downfalls, and what we need to find is a happy medium, a balance between the two.

However what is clear, is that the attitudes of manager and player is something that can not be questioned.

They are both winners.

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The Journalist

Writer: Rocky7 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday March 20 2007

Time: 10:03AM

Your Comments

Yeah, winning IS everything, and I like Gallas' attitude for the desire. But Arsene has shown that you can win pretty, and do so consistently. To be honest, I like Gallas, but pls give me Wenger any day of the week for his footbalistic (I just HAD to use that word and Wenger in the same sentence) philosophy :).
If arsenal win playing well its great & if they win playing badly its still great. I don't see anything great about losing whether you are unlucky or not. Maybe because I was brought up following arsenal under George Graham I don't care as much as newer fans about the style of football. The truth is though arsenal as a club will be in trouble after next season if we don't win a major trophy because the likes of Cesc, Gallas, Henry & RVP to name just a few will want out. You can tell from Cesc's recent press comments that he is already fed up with losing & it's not something top players want to do on a regular basis.
Ashburton Gooner
Personally, I'm getting fed up with Gallas' ***** and he can ***** off back to Chelski or go to Serie A for all I care. He constantly bags other players with out taking any responsiblity for the fact that apart from 7 or so games at the start of the season he has done ***** All! I also think people bagging Wengers defensive changes in the last few matches should look no further than Gallas for the problem. Do you honestly think if Gallas was willing to play at LB and hadnt brought his Chelsea baggage to the Arsenal then we wouldnt have picked him there and not moved 3 players into unfamiliar positions. Hoyte/RB, Toure and Gilberto/CB's, Gallas/LB makes much more sense than what we lined up with at Everton. He may have a winning mentality but personally i'd call it a bad attitude. Son, you are far from perfect and 'let he who is without sin throw the first stone', so shut up or ***** Off. At this tough stage of the season we need union not decent.
Ozi Gooner
I'm all for the pretty stuff, but let's secure a lead first by scrappy, ugly, own goals, deflections, using whatever it takes type mentallity. As soon as we get a good enough lead, we can p*** around with the ball to our hearts content.
AG Cesc wouldnt be doing much better for himself at Barca at the moment anyway so i think your being a bit fatalistic. Henry wont leave unless Wenger sells him and i believe RVP will lead the Arsenal strike force for years to come, i mean i havent even heard any rumors people are intersted in him so i think your getting ahead of yourself.
Ozi Gooner
Gallas hasn't refused to play left back, Wenger wants experience in the centre and Gallas is the best centre back we have, he's one of the best centre backs anyone has anywhere in the world. Don't take the media *****e too much to heart, he's said he wamts to win, so what?! I'm sure Wenger shraes the same philosophy, but he knows we can win playing the good stuff, that's how we play best. There's no disagreement here, Gallas wants to win games. Why that would inspire any controversy is alien to me.
Little Dutch
Sorry LD mate dont agree with you there. Him and Toure are equally good at CB and this season Toure has been by far the better, Gallas (when playing) hasnt been a shadow of his former self. I also dont think its buying into press *****e as i havent read anything in the press saying that it is just my opinion. That above line up at the back makes a lot more sense than the one Wenger put out.
Ozi Gooner
I wouldn't be as harsh about it, but I know what you're saying Oz. I do rate Gallas and Toure very highly, but due to the lack of height, I can't see how playing them together at centre back is going to work. I know we're slaughtered already on set pieces, but I can't see that changing much, with two relatively short guys at CB. This is why I said yesterday, that my back 4 would be Clichy, Djorou, Toure (No way that I'd ever drop Kolo for Gallas), and Eboue. Gallas could play in any of the fullback positions too, but for our style of play, I think that the endless energy of Clichy and Eboue, gives us more going forward but the stamina and pace to get back if the move breaks down. Saying that I'm currently sat near the bottom of League 2 on LMA so don't listen to me!
I also have no problem with winning ugly when its neccesary, that is not what i'm talking about, just his attitude. Listen to the contrast in his and Gilbertos comments today, the two most senior players currently in the squad. Gilberto is preaching a message of togetherness, Gallas is out blaming everyone but himself and has been for two weeks now. If he doesnt want to play for the Arsenal he can ***** off, give Djourou a run in the side he is the future.
Ozi Gooner
It's marvellous that we have so much choice though isn't it?
I think it goes back to what was said on a previous post. Whilst you are great to watch and even as a Spurs fan I’ll admit that, you never adequately replaced Viera and with him lost the ability to win ugly. All great football teams occasionally need to put in an ugly yet winning performance, but irrespective of you play in the middle of defence, you lack that leader in midfield who can pull a team up by its bootstraps .. for a while Gilberto seemed to be that player but he now seems more of a lieutenant than a captain. And that’s not a criticism of Fabregas, Diaby and Denilson either. They may mature into that type of player but at the moment you lack him. And unfortunately Wenger can only influence so much ..
I can’t see anywhere that Gallas is being anti Arsenal. He is observing that the team is sometimes too creative for its own good, a label which has befallen others before. After all it has often been said that Henry looks for the great goal rather than the simple tap in. All he’s saying is that to succeed you require both.
And i agree S_H, I'm just saying he should focus on his own performances which have been far from perfect before he criticices those playing further up the field. He has not done enough this season to criticise others as much as he has in the last few weeks, and my point was if he is already bringing his Chelsea attitude here then i wont care in the slightest if he goes, Djourou could do with the games and will be the long term player there anyways, so if he doesnt want to play for us leave, i dont care.
Ozi Gooner
Ozi, Are Barca not top of the spanish league?? Yeah they went out of europe but I believe they are still in their domestic cup. I am not saying all these players will leave, but I gurantee if arsenal don't win a major trophy next season some of those players will be off. In Henry's case he may not have alot of choice because of his age (he will be 31) so top, top clubs may not want him but Cesc, RVP (if he has a good season) & Gallas would get offers, as would others............Re: Gallas, I think you are being harsh. He has said so many times that he didn't want to play left back at chelski & that was the major reason he didn't want to stay there. To join arsenal & then be asked to play in the position you had already clearly stated you didn't want is a bit much, especially as he is a major improvement on our other choices at CB (Kolo aside).
Ashburton Gooner
If Gallas had been asked to play left back permenantly then he mave have a beef, but you honestly think he's that unreasonable to fill in until Clichy comes back? Do you think that Arsene Wenger, who doesn't let the board of directors tell him what to do will have Gallas dictating what position he will play? I doubt it very much.
I think firstly, his phrasology has been twisted by the press. His raucous celebration at Villa said as much. He's come here with a reputation as a troublemaker and people are too prepared to believe that. Above, he's not blaming the team over himself, he's making a comment. To say he hasn't been a shadow of his former self is a comment I find starnge, I honestly do not think he has been anything other than superb in every game bar Blackburn at home- his first game for three months. You know I am a big Toure fan, but Gallas has experience and leadership. If you want an indication of his quality, try and think of how many times Gallas has to make a last ditch slide tackle- never, because his positioning is faultless, that's why his disciplinary record is so flawless. You metion Gilberto's comments, do you not find it coincidental that Gilberto and Gallas- our two most experienced players- always come out on the same day with comments? Gilberto is a fatherly figure, so his comments are always paternal and reassuring. Gallas's are always cajoling and provocative, both are meant to inspire the youngsters in different ways, and not without some direction from the club. Henry is usually the one who comes out with the harsh words, but he's injured at the moment, so Gallas assumes that mantle. Don't underestimate how clever AW is with media manipulation to inspire confidence and hunger in his players. Wenger uses the carrot AND the stick in conjunction with each other, because he knows that mix is needed. Ironically, that is the same with the team.
Little Dutch
Also Gallas did not complain about having to play left back, he was unhappy because Mourinho made it his permanent position in the team to accomodate Carvalho. His beef was that he didn't mind filling in, but he didn't want to play there permanently, much the same as Flamini. Honestly, take what the press say with a pinch of salt and read the words not the headlines.
Little Dutch
LD again i wasn't buying the press crap i'm stating my opinion that it would have made more sense to play Gallas at LB so only Gilberto had to move into an uncomfortable position. This could be Wenger or could be due to some complaint of Gallas, the former may be more likely but neither of us can be sure, also his attitude about playing LB at Chelsea may influence Wengers decision not to play him there so his baggage still comes to the club. And saying he has done nothing wrong is *****e, he was by far the worst player on the field in the first PSV match, his positioning and tackling were awful, so bad that Senderos had to grab the ball with his hands when he went forward and failed to even make an effort to come back and help.
Ozi Gooner
I think it's quite simple... the Boss wanted to give Diaby (and late on Denilson) a chance to show their stuff in the midfield. Gilberto is a known quantity in the MF. He's solid if unspectacular, but the others just might be spectacular. Given where we are in our season, its the right move to make. Determine whether Diaby is ready to start next year. At the same time, with Eboue and Clichy out, he needed someone who can storm forward from the back positions, and Kolo was a logical choice. Gallas proved in his first game back he's not too good at pushing forward from Right Back. But he's a stellar Center Back, so the team selection made perfect sense.
Bloody ell! Everybody's a bit grouchy here this morning aren't they? Group hug anyone? Must be the thought of a weekend full of poxy international fixtures eh! Let's brighten up everybody's day with a game of, 'Guess how many of our players come back injured from international duty'.8-)
But Wenger has had no issue with playing Gallas at left back, he played him there versus Blackburn a matter of weeks ago. Like I said, the "baggage" from Chelsea is twisted, he never siad he wouldn't play left back, but that he didn't want it to be his permanent position. The reason for the back four is that Gallas is our best CB and AW wants to give Diaby and Denilson a chance in the run in. Gilberto is captain and his experience/ presence is vital, and I think AW thinks a lot of our mistakes of late have been down to a lack of experience. I think to suggest Gallas wasn't played at LB because he refused is flawed logic, by that token did Diaby not play left wing v Everton because he refused to? Don't take his reputation/image so much to heart. All he has said is that he wants to win, there's no whining or blaming others, he wants to win. I would hope the whole team feels the same.
Little Dutch
You all miss my point. I'm not saying i have a problem with Gallas wanting to win, every player should want to win, winning ugly is fine when neccesary too. All I'm saying is Gallas has been critical of the rest of the team or the manager for the last two weeks and he hasn't been perfect himself, thats all. Im just saying if he is going to give other people are a hard time while not doing his own job properly then i dont care if he is an Arsenal player or not. By his logic us not scoring is the attacking players fault, that means us conceding is the defensive players fault by the same logic. He is part of the defence is he not?
Ozi Gooner
LD for one i cant agree that Gallas is our best CB, Kolo has been much better this season. Gallas may well be a better CB but he hasnt been for us and thats all that counts. Second he did bag other players, after the PSV game he said something to the affect of 'our attacking was blunt/ lacked any edge... It was a stupid free kick to give away... I told everybody to be cautious at set pieces'. Two of those statements are completely correct but they ignore the fact that watching set pieces is primarily a defenders job, his job and neglects his responsibility while bad mouthing others. That is what *****es me off, and this just adds to it.
Ozi Gooner
I respect that he is a winner, and always wants to win, but i just dont feel that anything he has said in the last few weeks has been constuctive. That is it, really.
Ozi Gooner
I'm not sure that Gallas has been overtly critical. With success comes expectation - you should beat the likes of Everton, but then Everton have got some quality players - I am surprised Gilberto is moved into the back four as it makes the centre of the park where all games are one more inexperienced. Unlike us down the road it must be frustrating as a player to lose to a team you really ought to be beating
LD, for once you're wrong. I don't read the papers for a start so I have no idea what they say, my opinions are based entirely on what I hear from the players mouths or from what Wenger says. The only time I will ever read a paper is to see if arsenal are linked with anyone (not that its ever true, but sometimes it gives you an idea of future players to look out for). With regards to Gallas, he actually said he was happy to play at left back permanently but he didn't want to be used as a utility player across the entire back four. When he joined arsenal he stated once again, he would play left back but that he wanted it on a full time basis & again this hasn't happened. He believe's as do most players & fans that his best position is cb, but he doesn't want to be changed around all the time......................R7, Its not about a player telling Wenger what to do, it's about Gallas clearly having a problem with his previous club & manager for not giving him a settled position & then another club signing him & doing exactly the same thing. The Flamini situation is entirely different to that of Gallas. Gallas' problems were known well before he was signed & at 29 years of age, he needs to know where he stands in the team.
Ashburton Gooner
Like I said, I think the press have taken "journalistic license" with his wording after the PSV game, that's why he was so keen to make a statement at Villa Park. I think Kolo has played a lot more games than Gallas, and he's been outstanding as always, but Gallas is more like Campbell used to be, he looks after the chain. Check how he nursed Traore through the Blackburn game, or how protective he has been for Hoyte, acknowledging that he is a young player out of position. He's right, we have lacked cutting edge, Fabregas said the same thing, Henry has said the same thing, Henry has criticised our defending. He's right to. I don't see as there has been any criticism of the manager, he's just pointing out some home truths, and I am 99% certain he has done so in collusion with the manager. Gallas's performances have been monumental, Kolo's as well, but Gallas's leadership and the way he organises the back four just give him the edge for me. That's a product of Gallas's superior experience. In truth, I feel Kolo has been a little off the boil since xmas, not majorly so, but I think fatigue is a factor. I think all that he ahs said has been constructive and true, don't forget that we had these situations with TH and Vieira before, these were interviews given to the French press, mistranslating key words like "we" or "you" do not come under libel laws and as such are reported irresponsibly (I'm sure you were willing to give TH the benefit of the doubt last year as his words to French journalists were constantly twisted). If you want a huge example, the bible was mistranslated to say that Mary was a virgin, the original transcript only said that she was "a young woman," which means the same as virgin in Hebrew. Just shows how even a slight misinterpretation can present a huge twist in meaning and purpose.
Little Dutch
I don't actually see what we are all arguing about here anyway, Ozi aside it appears everyone else wants Gallas in the team, so in truth we all agree anyway!!
Ashburton Gooner
What ever LD mate, I just dont buy this *****. I'll give up on the argument cos I'm clearly not gonna convince anyone but i still think what he said about set-pieces after the PSV game was not constructive and also hard to translate wrong. Also, seriously the bible, ***** me mate, i'm about as religious as a door knob but still you using that ***** about the virgin mary as an example for misinterpretation of language is like me calling myself Jesus reincarnate neither of us can prove it either way, same with the Gallas comments. But seriously sounds like you have yourself the start of the next Da Vinci code, could make millions.
Ozi Gooner
Just changing the subject, did anyone else notice how all through the villa/liverpool game & the everton/arsenal match the commentators continually mentioned our 'lucky' victory against villa, because of the goal diaby scored. Now correct me if I'm wrong but chelski & lampard in particular score deflected goals like that on a near weekly basis & their victories are deserved not lucky because they was prepared to 'have a go'!! Work that one out LD!!
Ashburton Gooner
As a senior member of the team and a long standing international Gallas has every right to critisise like this if needs be. He is only saying what we all know to be true and he hasn't singled out individuals for critisism. He stated one of his main reasons for coming to Arsenal was that Wenger made him feel wanted and that he would be expected to nurture the young players. Perhaps this is his way of a little prod up the bottom for said youngsters.
I never said i dont want him in the team, i just want him to shut up and drop the superior attitude *****. And yes LD if it was Henry i would give him the benefit of the doubt, cos he has earnt the right to the superior attitude in an Arsenal shirt.
Ozi Gooner
Both matches were on Man Usa sponsored Sky A.G. I've given up waiting for them to praise Arsenal. Andy Gray commentating on an Everton match ffs. That is like asking me or you to commentate on Arsenal v Spurs.
Hey, how come you guys aren't celebrating the defeat of your neighbours today?
Because we're not narcissitic freaks like that lot. Plus, doesn't feel much worth celebrating because I depise the Chavs even more than I do the Spuds.
Little Dutch
I celebrated it last night with a bottle of Rioja. A strange feeling wanting Chelsea to win a game, but I soon washed that bitter feeling away. Confused the life out of my wife cheering when Shevchenko scored and trying to explain the lesser of 2 evils to a non-football woman isn't easy.
Something we can agree on again LD, you have to be a threat to be hated.
Ozi Gooner
I don't think I could take it if Spurs got to the first Cup Final at the new Wembley in a season we have under-achieved. They would have conveniently forgotten 47 years of being in our shadow believe me.
There is that. Personally, I was torn on the issue. On one hand, I don't want the Spuds playing the first final at the new Wembley, the fact that Chelsea will doesn't bother me greatly because they bought it and they know they did. All of their achievements are hollow. On the other hand, if Tottenham would have gone through you can always count on them to ***** it up, and they would not have gone on to win it. Really, what I wanted to see was a great big dust up, but not from some idiot fan invading the pitch.
Little Dutch
I'm with you on that one hatespur, though I can't say I cheered when any of the goals went in to be honest. Whether it's right or wrong to think it, and I can't be arsed to have a discussion about it, if Chelsea win the cup, my mind just tells me, it's okay, they've spent 1/4 billion to get it. If Spurs win it then we wouldn't hear the end of it. Even if we'd won the Champions League this season, and they went on to win the FA Cup, they'd be over here trying to put their FA Cup win on par with winning the CL, Premiership and League Cup combined. It just gets pretty tiresome in the end.
In short, it's a bit like choosing between suffocating and drowning.
Little Dutch
Yep, that's about the way of things LD
Agreed. Whatever Chelsea do we can console ourselves with the fact it is a hollow triumph that they would swap immediately for the C.L if possible.
Everyone knows its drowning over suffocating.
Jacky B
I wouldn't fancy either to be honest Jacky.
Yoko Ono or Anne Widdecombe anyone?
Little Dutch
Gotta be drowning, cos from what i have heard there is a relaxing trippy bit just before you snuff it. now i am not sure that happens if you are breathing in to much Co2 or chlorine
Jacky B
I have always wondered how anyone knows things like that bit of info Jacky. Now presumably the little trippy bit just before you snuff it would be the last thing you ever do? So to be able to jump out of the water and tell somebody it has just happened is unlikely at best.
Anne Widdecombe for me, virgin meat...mmmmmmm.
I'd have to go with suffocating (spurs) over drowning (CSKA London) but only just. Its funny to think of the Chelsea as drowning but cos how do you drown in a shallow kiddy pool, lots of beer i spose.
Ozi Gooner
There is no way way we'd have been able to talk bo**ocks so freely on Vital today if the Spuds had won. It would have been an infestation of f***wittery on here by 9a.m.
Hatespur... "Now presumably the little trippy bit just before you snuff it would be the last thing you ever do? So to be able to jump out of the water and tell somebody it has just happened is unlikely at best." Thats a bit like saying its impossible to know dogs see in black and white, lol
Jacky B
oh, and never Ann Widdecombe. I once went to a lecture where she said, and i quote.. "you can't expect people in prison to be able to read" ah the amusement (and horror) lol
Jacky B
By the way did anyone notice that Tottenscum fan took a swing at a target that big and missed. Typical *****in' spurs, ey. Actually missing something that wide he could be our starting striker at the moment.
Ozi Gooner
Which is true Jacky. How did that come about?? Fido, do you like my nice new blue sweater?? No, you soppy f***er master, it's black.
hatespur who knows. I cant understand how bridges are built, or underwater tunnels for that matter. There are many mysteries in this wonderful world. Like how Senderos gets a game for the gooners;-)
Jacky B
Did anyone notice the chavski players puttin the boot in on that fan? maybe they did mistake him for an Arsenal striker Ozi?
Jacky B
It was a shame that the stewards didn't leave him there for 5 minutes and let Terry and co. give him a good shoeing. His mate didn't fancy it much did he?? Got ten yards away and started simulating the cock fighting stance.
nah, shame Terry and co didnt get a good kickin themselves. one of those knobs was a chavski fan.
Jacky B
I reckon it was cosmic pete trying to mug Lumplard for heroin money. But Frank won't let go of his loose change easily, he needs it to buy his drumsticks and a curly wurly, and a packet of lovehearts....and a packet of cola bottles.......and milk duds.....oh, oh and some of those ojos.....and a drum of rhubarb and custard.....oh, and a packet of lemon sherbert....what was I talking about again?
Little Dutch
seems like ashley Cole is guilty of one of those cowardly acts you were talking about LD
Jacky B
Cole's been guilty of many cowardly acts jacky, but kicking someone who has been restrained is pretty crap. Imagine if you did that to someone in a nightclub, you'd be laughed out of the place. Perhaps it's a peculiar quirk of male pride, but I'd have said all fair and well if he's have kicked him when he wasn't restrained.
Little Dutch
I'd love it if he and the others who did the same were collared by the old bill. its assault after all. But Fat chance. Especially Lampards case!
Jacky B
I hope the FA are going to charge chelski with failing to control their players!! I saw Drogba sticking his boot in bet they don't use video evidence on him though!! lol........................Of more concern to me is that Dog the bounty hunter is going to jail. Daytime TV is about to become even worse with nothing to watch!! Unfortunately for you lot it means I will probably spend even more time on here moaning about arsenal!! lol
Ashburton Gooner
Begun silly billy has. I'ma enjoy the outcome of this.I wonder if he'll score an own goal against chelsea at the emirate. ^_^
I am agreein with prits on this one. We need to get back to our olds ways of winning and winning in style. It is very frustrating for all us gunners out there that are used to seein our team play such attractive football and bringing home silverware while we are at it. I think that we are still settling into our new home and what other teams have managed to bring home silverware in there first season in a new stadium? I have faith in arsene and his footbalistic views (sorry prits i had to get it in as well i saw arsene use it the other day as well great word) I do feel sorry for gallas in his first season but i have a feelin new season we WILL come good and we will add to our armory in the summer. Watch this space
LD, thats an interesting take you have on players talking to the media. To be honest, I'm not sure whether Arsene actually tells his players to say such things to the media, but if that is the case (and its a possibility), I think its a darn good idea. And I dont think Gallas criticises or disagrees with Arsene in his statement. Just stating his views, which is fine. k_chelski - dream on boy !! We're not going to roast him at the stakes like you lot did. And u're still paying for that mistake with cashley.
Arsenal are going to be the subject of a takeover bid shortly, just mark my words. Whoever it is will have a fight on their hands but they are going to try it, probably in the summer.
Ashburton Gooner

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