Arsenal News 24/7Writer: Rocky7 
Date:Monday April 30 2007
Time: 9:33AM
UK time is: 15:50:04
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Gooners Embrace The Takeover
Our latest Vital Arsenal poll asked What Are your feelings regarding a possible takeover?
Well the votes are in and have been counted and I must say I was quite surprised with the results.
Despite all the outcry, it appears that 45% of our readership say 'Bring it on' when it comes to the takeover of our club, with 29% being deadly opposed to the possibility.
Poll results in full:
What Are your feelings regarding a possible takeover?
*Bring it on 45%
*Worst thing to happen to the club 29%
*Prefer for an English investor 3%
*Only time would tell 19%
*It hasn't harmed any other clubs 2%
*Football is dead 2%
Our next poll asks who was man of the match vs Fulham.
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Your Comments
true but the generally positive's total 47 and generally negatives total 53, so really its almost equally split. I think we really need to see what any investor has to offer before getting behind him. I cant see why any gooner would want a lot of new debt on the club and profits to be flowing out to some random american, if that were the case. if he can show that he can pay with cash and will invest in the playing side then I am not necessarily opposed.
gazzap
I wouldn't really call 19% a negative, however I do see your point!!
Rocky7
I'm with you gazzap. We supposedly live in a democratic, multiculteral and tolerant society so being opposed to a takeover bid because of somebody nationality is just wrong. If the guy buys Arsenal as a business venture in which he has a vested interest in making the club as successful as possible i can't see the harm in that.
hatespur
*cultural
hatespur
MP @ ANR says that 90 - 95% of Arsenal fans are against any possible takeover. I'm inclined to agree with him. Methinks your poll was influenced by Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool & Spurs fans.
Lex touched me.
I'll wait and see the guy's intentions, but at the moment I'm not behind it. Let's face it, this guy wants one thing from Arsenal-money. Now of course, in the short term, that probably means budget for players and the team being successful, but as for the long term, he will borrow to finance the takeover, transfer the debt onto the club, raise ticket prices and we will pay him to take the club over. This is nothing to do with him being American, it's to do with the long term future of this club asnd I don't want it to sell out anymore than it has done. The stadium name etc I can live with, I never call it the emirates anyway, but I don't want more debt so he can make money off of us. If that means no trophies for the next few years, I'll live with that. This club has a bright future and sound financial planning, we don't need this type of takeover and I don't want it.
Little Dutch
I do agree to an extent LD, and I would certainly sacrifice short term success for long term stability but how many of us would actually tolerate that? Without meaning to pidgeon hole a lot of our recent fans, how many of the 60,000 will still be going 3 years down the line if we haven't been winning trophies. Having a half empty ground week in week out could turn out to be as equally catastrophic as 'selling out' due to the fact that the manager's budget is likely to be generated from bums on seats. I have noticed more and more empty seats around me lately despite the matches alledgedly being sell outs. This is an indication that many season ticket holders have not bothered to turn up because we aren't chasing the premiership crown.
hatespur
hatespur, maybe next season when they introduce the trading scheme it will help...they shoudl also make a rule that anyone who doesn't go and doesn't offer their seat for sale, say 3 times in a row, should have the ticket reclaimed and put on sale... do you not think that it would fill up like that?
Andy-bayor
their all down at chelsea now! fake supporters! id love u to sell ur souls to the yanks but didnt hill wood say 'we dont want ur lot taking over'?. mayb a goon but i like that!
locky
Is it half term for remedial schools?
hatespur
I'm sure the Glazers have not invested in Man U just for the pleasure of the football. Lets face it the Manures aren't doing too badly with that type of investment. So too are Liverpool and the Gillets!
I would like everything to stay as it was before, but we all have to move on and perhaps if we are to challenge the 'other three' we need a similar input to freshen things up. It's all very well (LD) to say we can put up without trophies for a few years but the bottom line is no trophies means lost revenue (lots). Players will soon get fed up with not winning things and will want to go. It takes a long time to build up players and a winning formula and a short time for it all go to $hit!
Emkay
i don't have a problem with it. IF DD comes back on the board i think wed can see the club run with him guiding us as usual. the difference would be we would have more disposable income, but they would still look to balance the books so we don't have a Chav situation that if the owner sold up would leave us with a huge debst we couldn't pay, thats what United and Liverpool do unlike chelski. its also worth noting the man who might sell if they money is right is Fizman, spends most of his time in geneva nowadays and is not a footballing man, could be tempted with the right offer.
PUREGOLD
DD will only come back on the back of the Yanks!
Emkay
With all the takeovers that have happened at Man U, Liverpool, Villa etc, and those possible at clubs like Arsenal (and even Southampton), can anyone explain to me why the sudden interest in English clubs and why is it mostly from Americans...?
Gooner_Vin
Maybe Andy-B. All the seats around me are supposed to be season ticket holders, but many have been occupied by different people every week (when they are occupied). I also think this has a detrimental effect on the atmosphere within the ground as when you have familiar faces around you find it easier to get some singing going without being told to siiidaaan.
hatespur
The bunch that sit in front of us change from week to week too. They remind me of the painted faces that we had at Highbury a few years back when the new stand was being built!! Except the 'faces' sang more. W@nkers!
Emkay
If you take those vehemently against at 29% add those prefering an english investor that brings those opposed to 32%. Another 19% of 'only time will tell' are clearly not convinced so it falls short of a ringing endorsement for Kroenke. I think this poll opened with something more than 50% for 'bring it on'. It closed someway down on this with the trend strongly opposed. I suspect as someone else pointed out the early part was influenced by non-arsenal supporters and before arsenal voices came to be heard.
Amos.
Henry is a gobby unprofessional nonce. Shame on him and your club. Embarrassing. The sign of a desperate, panicked, unhappy human being.
allen49
These people are business men, no offence but anyone who thinks any different is just being naive. Debt is all we can acheive from being bought by any one like Kroenke, none of these guys (Glazer, Lerner, Gillett and Hicks) are Abromovich, they dont have money to throw away and thats not why they're getting involved. Most of them Kroenke included, have had financial success buying American sporting franchises, either from scratch or by moving them, and that is why they are interested - they know that no american sports franchise has the potential to earn like Arsenal, Liverpool or Man U. They have no respect for our history, no matter how much they say different, these clubs are not their play thing like Roman, they will turn us all into Leeds somewhere down the track and i'd prefer 40 years of tottenham style mediocrity than 5 years of glory and then third division football. We are stable and can remain to be with the current owners, if it aaint broke dont fix it!
Ozi Gooner
the reason its all americans getting involved is cos they know a good investment, and good band wagon, when they see one. Do you realy think Gillett and Hicks are building the 'new anfield' so more fans can watch the team? or do u think they mite be doing it to make more money? hmm, me thinks the latter.
Ozi Gooner
disgusting or funny allen49, its all a matter of perspective. Anyway this just proves how true a gooner he is and that he's going nowhere, he is repeating the sentiments of every arsenal fan who saw you tools celebrate an undeserved draw more than Italy did winning the world cup, and he thinks your fans and players are just as pathetic and funny as the rest of us Gooners
Ozi Gooner
OziGooner: Er.... no. He's done what no player worth their salt would do, which is to use the programme notes for a cheap shot (when he should have been talking about the Fulham game). He's a fat old queen and you're welcome to him.
allen49
As I said allen49, its a matter of perspective. I think its fuuny, you dont. You think Henry's a fat old queen, I think Robbo's fat, and you could use our 'old queen' especially considering he was the difference between us and you playing CLfootball this season.
Ozi Gooner
wanna now why the yanks are getting involved. cos they aint as stupid as we all think, the prem has just gone world wide. biggest league in the world and more of the club money will come from asia than the uk and their jumping on the gravey train just at the right time, so please sell up u f*ing numptys and let the yanks make a nice tidy profit. and u boys suffer at the same time! COME ON YOU SPURS! oh and little dutch go pick up on more typo's n think ya good for it u little helmet! u sad sad little man, its a football forum not countdown or scabble 1 u chump!
locky
Emkay, United's current renaissance is very much in spite of the Glazers, if you see their end of year results, they are over £100m in debt, which perhaps explains why van Nistelrooy was sold and not replaced. So far, United have sold more than they've bought under Glazer. Their current success has been down to getting a decent swansong from Giggs, Scholes etc. Those players will need replacing very, very soon. We are not aware of Kroenke's exit strategy for a start, if the football bubble bursts tomorrow, will the Gillets, Galzers and Hicks of this world stick around? The bottom line is, Kroenke will want to get more out of the club than he puts in, that means taking money off supporters to pay off the club's newly acquired debt, that does not at all bode well for the future, that means even higher ticket prices before the club is sucked dry and the owner *****s off. Three months ago, very few felt we needed to be taken over to compete, but all of a sudden people are for it. Dein being back on board would be a good and bad thing. Doubtless he moved this club on light years. But he wanted to move to Wembley ffs, and he is a big risk taker, which is all very good until you miscalculate. I think Dein got above his station, but at the same time, I think the current board needs to modernise. The fact is I think this club can compete in the long term without the need to be raped by an entrepeneur who will leave us in the ***** in twenty years time.
Little Dutch
little dutch a couple of points are correct but other than that its utter drivel! you have no idea how things are set up.
locky
neither do you ***** monkey, i'd ask how you felt about spurs being bought out but clearly even Americans are smart enough to see Villa are a better prospect than you scum, at least they have a history, now ***** off.
Ozi Gooner
Sp*rs are run by Enic, they sold out a long time b4 the rest. Hasnt seemed to have won them any silverware though? strange?
iceman10
history?****! u dont nothing about football either....first britsh club to win a european trophy, the first club in the 20C to do the double, only non league team to lift the fa cup (ermmm should i say that one) only team to win the 2nd div and the 1st div in following year. that enough special history for me....! im only giving u the facts, u gotta save ur club! ***** off cocksucker, ul thank me 1 day!
locky
''this has nothing to do with him being american'' thank you LD - to decide if i were for or against the takeover id need to know 2 things - dividend payouts and loans - with the kroenke as owner does it mean we can borrow money from him with little or no interest rates? as opposed to now having to borrow from capital banks? - hill wood stated the board regularly vote for NO dividend payouts - will the kroenke change this and go ahead and start paying himself dividends? i have a theory that kroenke just want to create a diverse portfolio of sports teams under his kroenke sports entertainment company name until it reaches a certain level of capitalisation, which he will then float on the NYSE and take a huge payday while taking a place on the board and being responsible to shareholders. if he does this, the club would be *****ed - and i would be against any takeover
bootoo
I trust the board and whatever they do im going to back it 100%. They have done nothing since I supported Arsenal to make me believe they dont have the clubs best interests at heart. Dein played a massive part in moving us forward but no one man is bigger than the club, we can progress without him, without Hill-wood, whoever, all that matters is the club.
iceman10
your saying you trust the board and in the same breathe your saying dein and hill wood dont matter! there the only board uv probly ever known! this is mental! u boys are *****ed up
locky
Do you trust Daniel Levy? I bet you love him for trying to penpal his way into the champions league last year! Do you love him because he has increased ticket prices for next season? Go and get a history book and look at the pictures of when you were succesful, the chapter after your success is about dinosaurs and evolution.
iceman10
So locky, basically what you are saying is that Wenger has more history in ten years than 120 for tottenham, thats nothing to be proud of. And LD, i think it has everything to do with them being American. That is not racist, that is because of how American big business invests in anything foreign, it is fact they take everything they can out of their investments putting back as little as possible especially when it is outside their own country. KSE is a corporation, it therefore is required by American law to do everything possible to increase profits for its shareholders. That means loans, debt, taking dividends and shortcuts aswell as jumping ship the second things go bad. Also there is the matter of the Americans total lack of football knowledge. I'm australian, so i know that may sound hypocritical, but these Americans have no interest in football only the money that comes with it. That is why Lerner bought Villa, even why the Icelandic blokes bought the Hammers, these clubs have histories and sentiment that have the potential to turn them into merchandising giants. To do this the owners have to make the clubs succesful, but still that is only a way of maximising profit and when it goes wrong or it appears to not be working they will leave and Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Villa will be the next bunch of Leeds stories. Imagine that Spurs would be the biggest club. Also if we get bought by a Yank we cant call them Man USA anymore and that would be unfair, we've only had it for like 3 years.
Ozi Gooner
also ice man...wats that about ENIC and no silverware. thats a post about nothing! i was never trying to make that point! also Levy (life long yid) owns them with investments from people like joe lewis.(another yid) some1 has to own the the club. glad its fans who care instead of americans (or for that matter anyone from any other country) who is just out to line their pockets!
locky
Arsenal fans own Arsenal at this point in time. Stop being so proud that your club is so S*@t nobody is even thinking about taking it over.
iceman10
and ozi gooner u penis. weve won like 8 fa cups and stuff...i just wrote down the stuff that i feel is real indavidual, special to us history! just to make a point!
locky
Not winning the league for nearly 50 years and still considering yourself a big club. Add that to your conception of 'real individual'.
hatespur
i know that but you should probably know we have won more FA cups than you have trophies altogether
Ozi Gooner
I hears Moses was a sp*rs fan. He must of jumped on the bandwagaon when you were good, what a glory hunter.
iceman10
I'll agree with LD and reiterate what I've said before; as attached
Most people keep saying Kroenke will be good for the team/game, question why does he want to buy Arsenal? Because he is a fan of Arsenal? Because he wants to see all sorts of sports flourish? Because he wants to develop football in America? Kroenke has fallen in love with DD? Would not the answer be to all these questions be to make more money? What happens if he doesn’t make money? We’ve said the same about Chelsea, wait till the Russian sugar daddy leaves. I think there are a lot of questions that need answers too. alwaysgunner
alwaysgunner
hatespur your putting words in my mouth now! and ozi....u havent! lol. mugs! some1 asked why foreign investors are so interested in buying up clubs at the mo. i was just trying to explain to u numptys
locky
locky, thanks for trying to explain the concept to us numptys, but you are clearly far too intelligent and grammatically superior for any of us to understand the point. Thanks for trying though, much appreciated fella.
hatespur
Sorry Locky i was wrong we've won as many league winners trophies as all of yours put together, thats including your pointless trophies.
Ozi Gooner
its really a simple concept! as the asian economy grows and they have more disposal cash the young men will spend more of that money on shirts and other merchandise and we all no how they love football. well maybe it is to complex for you lot! i feel like im banging my head against a wall! Yid R-Me
locky
alwaysgunner, there is no doubt that Kroenke or anybody else interested in buying into the club would be doing so for financial gain. Unfortunately, this is the nature of any business. It doesn't automatically mean that he'd be bad for the club. I don't particulary want the board to sell out, but we should listen to the conditions with an open mind before declaring that the guy is the anticrist.
hatespur
If you feel like banging your head against a wall locky, feel free to do so. One of the benefits of a democratic existence.
hatespur
If foreign investors are so interested in buying football clubs right now explain to us why nobody wants to buy you!!! Did you give said investors a viewing of Matchbox lane? were they unimpressed with drug dealers on every corner? Did they see the ninja style combat where you attack opposing fans all the way down to seven sisters road? Did you give them lasagne for lunch? Where are the people interested in sp*rs?
iceman10
Locky, Hill Wood doesn't even own 2% of the club, relatively speaking, he really is not important in this whole thing. Fiszman and Bracewell Smith are the ones to watch, as well as Dein and his part in any takeover. Dein and Wenger had dinner in London the night before Dein was given the chop, so you have to wonder what they spoke about. Ozi Gooner, you are right, in America, by law, a corporation has the same rights as an individual, therefore it is law to serve the shareholders above all else. That means taking it out of Arsenal and putting it into his business. The onlt thing that makes me a bit positive is that Kroenke has agreed to meet with the Supporters' Trust to express his intentions. But there again, they are less powerful than Hill Wood. The one year agreement pledged by the board is legally binding, but worthless. If someone breaks it, the others could sue, but would be awarded no money because nothing has been lost.
Little Dutch
iceman, the lad is obviously about 5 years of age. Don't even bother involving him in a complex issue which is as far beyond him as C.L football is from his rat infested club.
hatespur
i honestly dont believe levy would dream of selling up at really any price! i think anyone who took a interest would see that and not waste their time in a takeover bid!
locky
and levys got his head screwed on and see the big picture
locky
What percentage of the club is owned by small shareholders LD?
hatespur
They would be wasting their time with a club stuck in a s*@thole. Alan Sugar sold you because the apprentice was a bigger money spinner and far more interesting!
iceman10
That said, I agree with hatepsur, we have to enter it with an open mind and hear the man out. Any takeover should be judged on its merits. Locky has a point in that the Asian market is worth exploring and whether the current board minus Dein has their finger on the pulse I'm not sure. But we don't need our club sold to capitalise on that market do we?
Little Dutch
I don't know the exact percentage, but I think the club doesn't have as many small shareholders as others. But I could be wrong. I think that was the point in the Supporters' Trust being set up.
Little Dutch
sir alan still owns summin like 12% mate! anyway im out of ere! i hope it clicks boys and u petition ur club (or not, probly better for my great team if u dont)! later on
locky
I just can't imagine for a minute that DD wanted the board to sell out to some fly-by-night wishing to make a quick buck at the club's expense. DD has an astute business acumen but he is a Gooner through and through and i'm sure he would want the club in the best hands for the future of Arsenal F.C. All that hard work in building a magnificent stadium with a superb manager and great infrastructure was a labour of love aswell as good business. It'll all come out in the wash what Kroenke's conditions are, that is the time to judge.
hatespur
HS I've not said Kroenke is the antichrist, but their motives are as you agree to make money. What happens next? Share holders will expect to make money also. If clubs Kroenke is associated with in America slump and money needs to be found for them where will he get the money? Kroenke is not a fool he will want his pound of flesh and maybe all that will be left will be the bones of a very proud football club. The board has promised money to the Boss for players and time and time again he has said he has the players he needs unless there is a super star that was available he could use. I would like to see what Kroenke has to say, but for now leave things the way they are.
alwaysgunner
DD had nothing to do with the stadium out of protest because he didn't want it, he wanted Wembley. Friar and Edelman and Wenger were the ones who put the most in along with Fiszman. Dein was against the move to Ashburton from the start.
Little Dutch
Clichy was man of the match and i voted for the takeover once and then decided against it and voted two times against it...
Goofle
HS go to http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_2096553,00.html have a look and see what you think. This is a recent comment my thoughts where printed much before that.
alwaysgunner
I agree that Clichy was superb against Fulham.
hatespur
Interesting points here and got me thinking that we may well be about to see something extraordinary happen - the scene is being set to create some kind of explosion in 'supporters' with the American and Asian markets being prised open more aggressively. So in the US they are paying millions for Beckham and other (some might say washed-up) football 'starlets'. This 'sexyness' required by the US markets, together with the gathering might of disposable Asian cash seeking, may well allow the markets and broadcasters to focus the spotlight on the elite leagues of the world and build larger fanbases...maybe we are on the cusp of the breakaway European super-leagues, followed by Global superleagues... it makes sense and explains all the Premiership buy-outs. The opportunities then, are immense - DD knew this, and our board probably does but refrained from a sellout due to traditionalist roots... From here the 'business' of football can take the investors 'to the stars'. This will perpetuate the practise of treating clubs purely as a business and they become financial pawns traded on ****-knows what markets, and more removed even from their traditional roots... but so what - once they've herded enough sheep into the pen it doesn't matter - its about quantity not quality, and money makes the world go round... Yes it's a ****ty picture, but if we have learnt anything from human history from a financial perspective, it's that greed has been the biggest driver - I think they are called speculative bubbles. The above scenario is entirely plausible, but we dont know the timeframe and what strength we might have to withstand it. I am not naturally a doom-monger but reckon this is what's at stake! So sell the club? No! I like OG's previous idea "better 40 years of Spurs-style mediocrity than 5 glory years and a crash".
Andy-bayor
You lot change your minds quicker than a Leeds fan running the pitch!
SweetLeftFoot
dont get it
ajwb
We aint gonna lose either way, we stay as we are or...................we stay as we are with more money to spend...................mmmmmmmmmm difficult that one.
gunnerb
i havent had the chance to read the comments or the discussion with the scousers about the takeover ... but has anyone commented on the interview with Danny Fiszman about all this on ATVO ??
IMO a very defensive and positive attitude about the club ownership and security.
yazz
If Fiszman is correct that the board has friends that give them collectively more than 50% of the shareholding who might these friends be? Around 10% or so of the shares are held in nominee accounts these disguise the real shareholders and typically are family trusts designed to mitigate Inheritance tax and/or overseas shareholders. These may have been set up sometime ago to hold part of the family holdings. It is no surprise that at 71 Hill-Wood holds relatively few shares himself as he wouldn't want to pop his clogs with too much of his estate open to the tax man.
It is beginning to look as though Kroenke may have miscalculated if he really planned to take over the club in which case he has millions tied up in shares that buy him influence but no control. In order to take over the club he has to make the shareholders an offer they can't refuse.
Amos.
Amos, That is what I have been afraid of. If things gets protracted, apart from getting ugly the valuation of the club on the short term would increase very high and KSE would have to offer huge amounts of money to the shareholders for the Offer that they cant refuse which will in turn increase the amount of debt KSE will incur on the club in future. It is not that I am for the takeover but only that whatever happens it shd happen quickly. Preferably I want the same board in this for a few more years with DD also in. Kroenke doesn't depend on increasing the ticket prices to bridge the gap in his spending. I am pretty sure to market the clubs in Asia and US for the debt financing. The problem with the current board is possibly that they are @ the end of their financing resources and to unlock the Asian and US markets U need more money. and probably ie what DD is after. As an Arsenal fan I know how difficult it is to get an Arsenal shirt in Bangalore. So to promote the brand and monetize the brand We need more money which I am not sure the current Mgmt could provide and stay competitive in the league too.
questforavalon
KSE is pretty well only US based so he has no penetration of value in the outside the US markets. Arsenal is much more of a global brand than any of his existing franchises but the money won't be made out of shirt sales. In any case with internet access you should be able Arsenal merchandise anywhere in the world. The extra revenue can only be made by using Arsenal as a billboard to sell other products globally. Does Kroenke have greater expertise than the existing board to increase these revenues ? - possibly. BUT - buying Arsenal outright could take at least another £600mn on top of what he has already spent - maybe much more. To get a return on his investment he would want at least 10% to cover the loans and show a profit. That means he would have to generate an extra £70mn a year in income. Thats a massive amount to raise. The value of the club will increase provided that it continues to be succesful but this is probably already factored into the price. So while you may wonder whether the existing board can raise more money to build the brand at least their relatively more conservative financial development safeguards the longer term future of the club more securely than the dubious economics that KSE seem to have on offer.
Amos.
Put arsenal on internet auction , maybe you will get couple of euros
L_F_POOL
Like i said in the previous article, i'm all for takeovers. However, i wouldn't want someone who knows nothing about sports to own us.
thenry009
then sell the club to the fans not the emirates
L_F_POOL
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