Porto v. Arsenal

no one cares

Come on you gunners! Away win please. But as Iceman notes, any draw would be just as good. We'll demolish them at home. I just want to see a good tight organised display to carry on from the good work versus the scouse.

Great last ditch tackle from Campbell to deny Falcao. Porto have started brightly. They have taken a cue from some premiership sides and are not giving us any space to play.

almunia's not looking so bad now, is he?

Mistake from Fabianski from a routine cross from Varela. 1-0 Porto.

And we get beaten a lot at the full-back positions, just as expected, with Portugal famous for producing wingers.

SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

haha sol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:')

for arsenal that is

porto is leaving us a dangerous amount of space in the midfield... our lads seem a bit surprised to receive the ball under so little pressure

Indeed...this is a very very open game. Good save from Fabianski..

Brilliant save from Helton from a super Bendtner header..

porto have been kicking cesc all game, yet somehow its an arsenal player with a yellow...

I missed the last bit. A guy kicked Cesc on half time. What happened then?

so almunia really is so bad, right?

Just....cant...believe this...

Whats Wenger arguing about?

what happened to Lukasz? He was brilliant last season.. and I was so confident he would be Arsenals long term no1.

Gooner_Vin, it doesn't require a top class keeper to not pick up an obvious back pass.

This is proper Youtube material. I'm still dumbfounded.

Frustrating now with passes going off target

Sagna doesn't look 100%, fitness wise. Hope Eboue comes on in place of him.

I'm just so angry at Fabianski for gifiting them two goals

Walcott on for Rosicky...wish he had come on for Nasri instead.

seriously, are they not going to show that penalty shout?

Cant say Hulk looked that good ,expected more

sol has had a great game defending, not even taking into consideration his goal

how many good touches have arsenal had in the second half? 2 or 3 i'd say

I thought we could at least pass it to each other not shown that tonight.We can still win it at home

Is it just me or have many of Cesc's corners been too deep past the far post?! Now we need Eboue to do something!

Vin, this has been a poor match. anyone who tuned in expecting to see the "world's top club competition" will be wondering how these two have managed to qualify for the knockout rounds. Arsenal can't complete a pass and the home club can't produce chances lest they be handed to them (literally) by the opposition's goal keeper

Ching! Ching!

2-1 to Porto. But looking at the fact that their goals were gifts, we should see them off at home with Almunia back in goal. Never thought I'd say that. Atleast we got one vital away goal. Keeping a clean sheet at home is vital now.

still no replays of rosicky being taken down in the box

For Derren's next trick, he will take an ordinary Polish painter and decorator and convince a top European football manager that he is an accomplished young goalkeeper.

I thought we played quite well apart from Fabianski doing his best to help the opposition. Fabianski has made basic errors against Chelsea in the FA cup last season, against Stoke in the FA cup this season, and again tonight. He might still go on to be a great keeper, but if Almunia had made the same mistakes he would have been crucified.

Will never forget the look on Sol's face when Fabianski picked up his back pass.. Sol was trememdous for us tonight and deserved better. But really have to say...the refree allowed them the free kick for the second goal really really quickly. There was no time for anyone to track back, even if they had recovered from the shock of Fabianski's mistake. Having Arshavin back for the return game on the left flank will also be very welcome. His style of play really cuts through some of our otherwise indecisive final third play.

for feck sake diaby have a bloody shot.......anyone running onto the ball on the edge of the box would just smack it...oh no not diaby he just stands there....... what a w@nker

It wasn't a performance that inspires you to believe that this a team that can win things. I think we're a fair distance away from that. They just don't seem to be learning. This was as far as you can get from a 'mature European performance away from home'. Whilst my love and support will always be there, I have truly lost belief that we will win things - not for a fair amount of time.

Fabianski is a good shot stopper and claims high balls into the box quite well. Its his decision making abilities and postional sense that are under developed. Unfortunately the latter qualities are vital for a quality goalkeeper.

I took a perverse pleasure out of comparing Cesc's interview to Wenger's. Cesc was correct not tocriticise the ref saying he'd have done the same, I should hope so too. Nothing wrong with Porto's second goal, everything wrong with our naivety in conceding it. The excuses from the manager don't cut it there and his captain knows it. I hope that was a deflection attempt from AW and he rips into Fabianski, Campbell and Vermaelen too for their part on that shabby, shabby goal. Have a bit of professional pride lads.

no springy, he just looks like a typical manager, that's what they all do

It seems an arbitrary decision by refs as to whether they'll allow you to take a free kick instantly or not. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't but we should have been alive to it.

I'm with Arsene if you detatch his coments from their context. As he pointed out when Thierry scored that quick free-kick vs Chelsea at Highbury in 05/06, it shouldn't be allowed, but it is, so it should be given. But yes, in context they sound a bit feeble. I don't think he'd got rid of his frustration yet.

It's one of my great bugbears that quick free kicks are so persistently not allowed. We see it all the time at the Emirates, team makes a cynical foul to stop us counter attacking. We take it quickly, referee pulls it back and the team that commits the foul gets the advantage absolutely 100% and the ref rewards them for foul play. It winds me up no end when the rules permit quick free kicks. Fabianski should be holding onto that ball, Campbell should try facing the right way, if Fab is gonna release it, at least get back in fecking position and Vermaelen could see the whole thing unfold but chose to stand their with his thumb up his arse. I usually don't like to fall into the whole "if so and so were there such and such would have happened" because it's futile speculation, but I am utterly convinced that Gallas would never have let that happen.

.........and still Clichy and Sagna cannot cross for peantuts. These guys live, eat and breathe football yet they have gone backwards as players, in one of the biggest clubs in the land. They are just not good enough in attack, and they seem to be getting worse as defenders too. Denilson is just crap period. Walcant still runs into the nearest defender as opposed to the acres of space around him. Fabianski - this guy should never have played for Arsenal again after that FA cup semi v chelsea last season. Mannone is infinitely better. Has Fabianski not heard of holding onto the ball until the defenders at least have a chance, or throwing it away pretending to not hear the referee's whistle? A yellow card would have been a very professional option and we would have at least drawn this game. Wenger this is what you get when you sign inexperience. It is the difference between trophies and a dusty shelf.

Gutted for you guys - as a Man Utd fan would much prefer to see you lot through as far as poss - WTF was Fabianski on tonight - he was crap

Nasri has indeed been very average since his return from injury. His play seems to have lost the directness that it had and many passing moves seem to break down on the left flank when Nasri plays. He is still trying though but seems to have lost the spark he had last year. Rosicky in my opinion has been miles better than Nasri of late. More direct, lively, crisp in his passing as well as better defensively. So dont know if Rosicky can be clubbed along with Nasri as an under performer this season.

why is cesc a goner?

I thought both Nasri and Rosicky did well though both tired late on. Take away the silly goals and it wasn't that poor a performance but we do have a problem in the way we set up to protect midfield. It's hard to judge though when you are chasing the game after 10 minutes or so. After we'd scored we seemed to shape up a bit better and control a good part of the game. If we'd had the penalty then I reckon we'd have been able to exercise even greater control but silly goal number 2 encouraged them and had us back chasing the game while fearful of conceding another. Fortunately, if we are going to lose away from home in a 2 legged tie 2-1 is a better scoreline than 1-0.

I personally didn't think Nasri was too bad individually until he became obviously riled, soon after which he was taken off. Unfortunately his replacement was pretty anonymous. Rosicky's performance was similar in that he put the effort in, and showed moments of great quality, but just didn't seem to have much chemistry with those around him. I think it's largely to do with having Nasri and Rosicky both up front around Bendtner. All 3 are good players, but they ddn't move fluently together. When Nasri/Rosicky came central, Bendtner didn't seem to be able to move to effectively pull the defenders away, and both stayed wide, Bendtner was isolated, as our Cesc and Diaby weren't cohesive enough today to offer support - hence Denilson was having to compensate in this regard, leaving us exposed on the counter, and Clichy and Sagna were forced to come forward perhaps a bit too often, as this was our only successful way of getting in behind them.

Scoring opportunities created by Nasri? Can't think of any. Number of shots from Nasri? Can't remember one. Did he track back and help out Sagna? Don't recall him doing so. This sadly has been the case from him for a while now. Basically, Arsenal consider the ball to be an afterthought unless they have it crisply in their possession. That's what's so infuriating, the first half wasn't bad (although we started slowly as we always, always, always do). The second half was ***** poor, didn't defend, didn't attack, the midfield didn't track back but didn't support Bendtner either, just ambling and daydreaming. It's not a terrible result by any means and I still back us to go through. The problem is, we'll play a better team in the next round if we do get through and they will absolutely crucify our approach of only giving two *****s when we've got possession and when we haven't got it, we just daydream about the brilliant things that will happen the next time we get the ball. They look like a team of bloody page 3 bimbos when other sides have the ball, standing looking into thin air wondering how pretty they'll look in those fetching heels with a hawkish, vacuous expression on their faces whilst the opponents jog past them. I seriously didn't think I'd be this angry about a 2-1 scoreline which still gives us an excellent chance, but I'm tired of watching the same mistakes time and time and time and time again with no evidence that anything has been learnt or understood. It's all so depressingly predictable, we squeak past Porto just like we squeaked past Roma, we play United, or Barca in the quarters and we get our arses handed to us again simply because the players refuse to protect their defence when they don't have the ball.

no, that is my point AR, there are so many reasons why players do or do not leave clubs, to just assume that it is his nature to abandon arsenal is ridiculous, not to mention to predict that it is just around the corner is asinine

I'm pretty sure sajit didn't say it was 'in his nature' to abandon arsenal. That him leaving is just around the corner is an overly simplistic way of looking at it though, yes, but not a ridiculous one - many players would take off if they were in Cesc's shoes.

Same old same old. A lack of organisation and defensive discipline has bitten us on the balls once again. It's just mind boggling how the team is allowed to get away with it. I'm *****in furious at the moment after watching that game. First half, no problems, so what the hell happened in the second half?

I still back us to go through to the next round. But when the heat gets turned up and we play one of the big boys can I really say with confidence that we've got a chance? No. It's horrible, but if we can't get the basic concepts of keeping shape, defending as a team and being hard to beat we will see the same things re-occuring like some eternal nightmarish dejavu.

I'm sorry, but if I was Cesc I would be seriously questioning the mental toughness of this team and its desire to win. You can offer the same excuses only so many times. Porto were there for the taking tonight. Any team with serious CL aspirations would have put them to the sword, not tried to dazzle us all with fancy footwork. I'm fed up watching Diaby trying to impress us with his dribbling when he should bloody well just shoot. The casual but careless passes to team mates who get caught time and time again. The lack of anyone in the box to pick up the loose balls that teams like Utd punish so clinically. The lack of proper marking. It goes on.

4-3-3 TPowell. I think Sagna's held his own in this formation, but I'm not convinced Gael has it in him.

Wyn, If i were Cesc, I'd be questioning my own mental toughness as well... what has he done these last few weeks that have been special? How has he played lately in these big matches? Like LD said before, the 'fan-favourites' are often able to avoid criticism. Denilson played no worse than Cesc today

On a side note how the feck did the ref miss that penalty shout? oh wait it was the same ref who missed the Henry handball. Looks like UEFA hand out big matches like Arsenal hand out shiny 4 years 50k a week contracts.

Hey could be worse, you could have won. Unlikely though cos you seam to have too higher opinion of your club. Wenger is an absolute joke. Anyone who believes he has an intelligent comment to make is a retard. I would be ashamed to have such a plonker as a manager. You lot should prepare to be overtaken by Spurs.

Wyn, Diaby showed real determination in reaching the header from Tommy's cross, which came after Nicky showed himself determined to make amends for his initial poor cross by quickly retrieving the ball and playing Tommy in. How about the teams efforts after going 2 down vs Bolton at home, another of our recent bad traits. Plenty of determination going forward there. Or the fight we showed in tough circumstances vs Everton - another game in which we weren't really playing comfortably. We've shown it in bursts, but there are moments in games where some players just get too casual. Most of the time, this laziness won't do any damage, and will be forgiven and forgotten, but in retrospect, we can see our fiesty attitude often goes missing where it's needed. TPowell, I thought Cesc played well vs Chelsea. At Man U he didn't play great, but with Song and Den having nightmares behind him it would've been difficult. Tonight he was especially poor, though. His usual version of playing badly is beeing shut down. Strangely, he actually had a bit of space tonight, but didn't use it effectively, partly because there wasn't good enough movement around them.

What does RiF stand for? Oh - really idiotic fecker ! - yeah that fits ok. We haven't had to bother to be prepared for the spuds to overtake us for 20 years or so. Doesn't seem any point bothering now. What day will St Totteringhams Day fall on this year?

we're in 3rd, why would we be in a play-off for 4th? how insightful

something you, as a spuddie, do all too well... so next year it is, then is it?

I don't think I'd bother watching your play off games hodfindsspudslaunchitfromtheback - if you managed to qualify. But it's not an imminent issue - you aren't in danger of being relegated this season.

1! - 2! - 3! - doh!

true SG did dive , but it was a blatant hand ball an yes a free kick, you just posted who the ref missed a peno shout

thats how many years ye trophy cabinet has been empty an countine for big top club amos

Im saying that a ref who made a huge mistake in a huge game has been given another huge game and made another huge mistake? count to 4 before you hit the submit button on your posts if thats not too difficult for you 123.

Nope - still have no idea what you're talking about. Complete gibberish but you are a spud. Not like a dyslexic spud to embarrass himself by talking about trophy counts so you must just be deluded. Almost obligatory state for a spud that.

i aint comparing must be frustrating for a club like ye with nothing to show for.

has to be more frustrating for you spuddies considering the complete discrepancy in trophies between our two clubs

Nothing to show for what? We're the only club in the top flight of the EPL to win something in each of the last 9 decades. Nobody has done better than that. Consistently successful we are. Frustration might be not winning a title in half a century while your neighbours have the honour of being the only North London team to win the title at WHL - twice! But this is all just abit too easy. You'd be better off not talking about trophies - it's just embarrassing for you.

Think you guys look much better with Bendtner upfront (even if he is painfully average) just because he offers something different - hes not just a little skillful bloke and gives you a plan B. Nights like tonight (you will hate to admit it because he is a numpty) are when you miss Adebayor.

TPowell, you're only as good as your last trophy. Which in your case was when?

'you're only as good as your last trophy' please explain your reasoning behind this? I would tend to argue that most people view Arsenal as more successful than t*ttenham considering... well everything really.

if ye owner is happy with 3rd an 4th evey season for so called top club fine be it

Do you think Wenger will try and win the Carling Cup next year?

Yeah - he'll give the kids a go in the CC hodthinksspudsplayhoofball. It's that level of competition for us. Rumour has it one club sacked the last two managers who won it for them!!!

Will Wenger play the first team? There are many ex Arsenal legends in the media suggesting a trophy, any trophy is critical for you. Do you agree with them?

if anyone actually cared about spuds, perhaps people would be saying the same thing about them. would you agree with them?

and the match wasnt on sky sports at least look up the tv guide

Yeh sorry Spurs guys, i forgot to ask. How did Spurs go in there champions league game?

and yet his knowledge of the english game is still superior to yours...

*see*

you've also yet to see any evidence to the contrary of that

so who was your motm then? and for the record, who was the motm for t*ttenham's last CL game?

you have a curious inability to answer my questions...

and you have the audacity to mock someone else's knowledge of football...

did you just manage to insult yourself? well done. and with that, i'm done for the evening

Tpowell, maybe I am reading too much into it, but today's interview was the second time when his views are opposed to that of Wenger. I just hope he stays but wont be surprised if he doesn't.

hodfoundhehadnoballs, how sad is your life that you depend on the fortunes of your rival club for kicks. Life. Go and get one.

hallo, arsenal fans please do not be harsh on your team this defensive malaise has hit the big four its not only arsenal, man utd were lucky if milan had decent strikers we would have had a different score, liverpool cannot defend now to save their lives am a chelsea fan and am scared for when nxt week comes against inter.....the top four are transitioning so lets be a little patient....i want to see english clubs go far at least semi finals but the loss tonight wont do our coefficient standings any good as regards our 4 slots for UCL

There are a few points I have to pick up on the free kick having seen it again a couple of times. Beofre I do pick them up, I would say that 99.9% of my anger is with Fabianski, Campbell and Vermaelen for being so airheaded in the situation and had they shown an ounce of professionalism between them all of the below would be a moot point. But, firstly, surely the referee can't ask for the ball and then give the quick free kick? He has interrupted the flow of the game and actively awarded Porto an advantage (which our bunch of braindeads were only too happy to contribute to as well). Secondly, surely quick free kicks aren't permitted in an opposing penalty area? Otherwise surely quick penalty kicks are allowed too? Thirdly, Porto take the free kick a good six or seven yards forward from where the offence is committed? Fourthly, is it any wonder there is so much gamesmanship in the game today? I am all for it, but referees have allowed it to get to such a point that I am livid that Arsenal are now not more cynical in the way they play. Case in point last night, referee asks Fabianski for the ball, Fab gives it to him, showing respect for the official and the official then *****s on him for doing so. ***** poor. That said, the ref can't be criticised for the non penalty award, that one is squarely down to the linesman who had a great view. So, to sum up, in future Arsenal, kick the ball away, don't give the ref the ball back, stand in front of the ball when the other side have a free kick (Gilberto was the master at this), but most of all, when the opposing team have the ball ten yards from your goal, PAY ATTENTION BRAINDEADS!

Agree LD. All this talk of Henry taking free kicks quickly is a Joke because every free kick that SKY have been showing on repeat (to try and justify the goal) Was outside the box with a wall in place. Once the ref demands the ball off Fabianski we should be allowed to get back in, if the Porto player had taken the ball off Fabianski then ive got no problem with the goal. It was only last week Wenger was demanding a more cynical approach (Telling Denilson to commit handball instead of expecting Everton to kick the ball out after he 'platoons' to the ground) and praising Chelsea for their gamesmanship, this team will never learn.

LD, at last, a more reasoned assessment of that particular incident (see what some sleep and watching a replay can do after such a game?). I have gone through the thread waiting for a concensus as to the poor refereeing, in that instance but could only recall one post. Not only did the referee interrupt the flow in the play, he also blocked Sol from doing anything about preventing the kick; which was taken too quickly, being an infringement in the box. The ref appeared to be unaware the kick had been taken until the ball was slotted in. No matter what anyone says about Henry's quick free kick, it was: 1. Outside the box. 2. with a wall in place, though wall was unprepared. 3. The Ref had given his nod to a quick one. The team largely, played poorly and without much fight and plenty of naivety (whats new?), but I think in the 2nd half, Porto appeared to want it more while our key players (bar TV, Sol) failed to rise to the occasion. There is a 2nd leg to be played and hopefully, we make Porto pay.

Not that I care about your jaundiced view.

I agree Amos. Most of the anger on here (in sharp contrast to Wenger's) is at the players not the ref. However, I don't even see a case against the ref. I'm not sniping - it was a goal and arguing about the ref even if you're more angry about the defenders is simply wrong.

I am pretty sure you would see a case against the ref if it involved your team Shelfinduced. Wenger is right in that the balance of advantage given by the referee in proportion to the play that led up to the free kick was unfair. It's perfectly fair for him to make that observation just as much as the ref is entitled to say he is able officiate in any way he choses as the rules allow him to. But still Porto's goal, and therefore the outcome of the game was a consequence of the referee's purely arbitrary decision making (and our defensive naivety) rather than Porto's play. Maybe we'll get a similar advantage in the next game but I don't see why Wenger or anyone else should be censored from questioning an action from the referee that you see only rarely in any game - even if the rules allow something the spirit of equanimity shouldn't.

http://www.football365.com/referee365/0,17033,8747_5956704,00.html I think this is as good a view as I have read about the goal from a qualified ref.

That's a great link LD and reflects my thoughts exactly. Interestingly by the time the ref does raise his hand to indicate an indirect free kick the kick had already been taken.

Shelfinduced, it was a goal and there is obviously nothing to do but get over it. Reading your justification of it was amusing though. When putting a rival team and manager is concerned, any amount of glossing over facts is fine is it not.

Taking a quick free kick does not negate the need to be 10 yards away. If it happens that the player closer gets hit by the ball or interferes with play the referee is within his rights to have the kick retaken (and may well book the player). And the ref didn't "spot the ball for Porto", he put it down so that play could continue - what else is he supposed to do? There's little in the rules that makes a free kick in the area different to one outside apart from the fact that the players can be closer than 10 yards if the free kick is closer to the goal than 10 yards. Don't get me wrong, I'd be pssed if it was Spurs and my anger would be directed towards the players, as most fans' (here) anger is. Wenger's by contrast was not. I'm just calling it how I see it.

Taking a quick free kick is almost always impossible (when there is a goal threat) due to defending player keeping/throwing the ball in the air and/or standing over the ball/arguing with the ref. I thiink that's why it's a controversial and probably a little misundertood. You'll quite often see players routinely kick the ball into the player standing in front of the ball and look pleadingly at the ref - he'll then usually tell them to stop being silly buggers and get on with the game sensibly.

Taking a quick free kick is almost always impossible because the referee rarely ever allows it. As the article linked above explains it isn't about the legality of the ref's actions. That can't be disputed - it's just a matter of whether he was being fair to both sides in a given set of circumstances. Of course it would seem perfectly fair to Porto and equally unfair to Arsenal. In fact neither are wrong - fairness is often just a matter of perspective but in this instance the refe allowed a greater advantage to Porto than he would have allowed them on a penalty.

fabianski is tripe lads

As a Spurs fan and a ex referee may I give a couple of observations on the porto goal? First, defending players do not have to be 10 yards from a free-kick for the kick to be taken, second, it says in the laws of the game, the referee shall signal for the taking of a free-kick, this can be "Take it now if you are ready" said to the kicker and not always the whistle. The bottom line is Arsenal & Mr. Campbell were adjudged to have made a back pass which Fabianski stopped with his hands, Porto took the free-kick quickly, passed the ball (Remember it was a indirect free-kick) then scored. As many comments have said don't blame the referee blame the Arsenal players who were not ready and were also showing dissent by shouting at the match officials over the decision. I can say this as a ex-referee and not as a Spurs season ticket holder that the referee was in the right on this occasion.

Professional Referees have commented differently, so maybe i would be inclined to listen to their views over yours. However, we had a lot of idiots who didnt react quick enough and therefore its hard to blame anyone but ourselves.

The Henry goal was under completely different circumstances, as has already been addressed in this thread. However, that would have required you to do some reading, clearly too tall an order for you...

No, you don't rest your case, completely different incidents as noted by several independant writers. On Henrys free kick, it was outside the box and the defence were signalled too clearly that it was to be taken quickly, with Eidur Gudjonson running back trying to warn his keeper.

I'm not saying we weren't ******** stupid or that the decision wasn't right in theory, but it's bluddy ridiculous to claim that the referee handled that situation in any way other than shambolically.

TPowell, I did read the whole article before writing a comment, I feel that all free-kicks that are taken quickly mean that the defending team have little time to re-group, that is the point of this situation to gain an advantage and every situation has its own "different circumstances" as you call it.

my point is, did you go and chastise chelsea fans for complaining that henry took that free kick early? i'm guessing no, you're just being a typical spuddie in this instance

i saw that brightness this year... they showed their great awareness allowing cesc to stroll trough all of them mere seconds after RVP's first goal of the game... good point

;-) like i said before Ox, i'm not one who is blaming the ref in this instance, the goal was Fabianski's and, to a lesser extent, Cambell's fault

It wasn't all doom and gloom - despite the "curious" refereeing (!), you managed an away goal and should be able to beat Porto at the emirates with a few of your first teamers back from injury. Sure I don't need to tell you that Fabianski is absolute poo...

Fabianski is dodgy, Mannone looks way better.

I've got to disagree. Mannone mad a few little errors, yes. But he looks to have a better presence in the box from free kicks and corners. Better natural reactions. I personally, felt a lot more comftable with him in goal.

Mannone caught the eye with some good shot stopping in the Fulham game and that's really all that anyone is basing their judgements on. LD is right he was fortunate not to get found out too often in the run he did have but at the moment he is a disaster waiting to happen. There is a tendency to think that our best keeper is always the one we see least of.

Denilson was awesome against Porto.